2025-04-09 15:03:48 <@davide:cavalca.name> !startmeeting CentOS Hyperscale SIG
2025-04-09 15:03:50 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-04-09 15:03:48 UTC
2025-04-09 15:03:50 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'CentOS Hyperscale SIG'
2025-04-09 15:03:55 <@davide:cavalca.name> morning folks
2025-04-09 15:03:59 <@davide:cavalca.name> !topic Roll call
2025-04-09 15:04:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2025-04-09 15:04:05 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2025-04-09 15:04:15 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !hi
2025-04-09 15:04:16 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2025-04-09 15:04:31 <@gmoro:matrix.org> !hi
2025-04-09 15:04:31 <@ngompa:fedora.im> (my main account is being a bit sluggish today in the meeting rooms)
2025-04-09 15:04:33 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Guilherme Moro (guilhermemoro)
2025-04-09 15:05:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> Matrix federation is the worst
2025-04-09 15:06:12 <@davide:cavalca.name> let's get started
2025-04-09 15:06:13 <@davide:cavalca.name> !topic Followups
2025-04-09 15:06:20 <@davide:cavalca.name> any followups to share from the last meeting?
2025-04-09 15:06:38 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I'm nearly able to make Hyperscale 10 images now
2025-04-09 15:06:48 <@ngompa:fedora.im> There are only two remaining issues, one I can work around and one I can't
2025-04-09 15:07:03 <@rcolebaugh:matrix.org> !hi
2025-04-09 15:07:06 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Raymond Colebaugh (rcolebaugh) - he / him / his
2025-04-09 15:07:51 <@ngompa:fedora.im> The first issue is that zstd is not enabled in erofs and that caused the images to crash when booting. I worked around this temporarily by using lzma. But I'm not happy about the reduced performance and higher memory used for lzma, so I'm going to try to get this fixed.
2025-04-09 15:08:27 <@ngompa:fedora.im> The second issue is that the Mesa vulkan drivers are missing on non-x86_64, which caused the KDE image build to fail due to broken dependencies.
2025-04-09 15:09:00 <@ngompa:fedora.im> (There's also a third issue related to CBS Koji being too old preventing me from setting some flags for the image builds, but I worked around that by just not setting them for now.)
2025-04-09 15:09:51 <@salimma:fedora.im> we really should talk to the ISA SIG about issue nr 2
2025-04-09 15:09:57 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Yes.
2025-04-09 15:09:58 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I've filed a Jira and a merge request for the Mesa issue.
2025-04-09 15:10:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> if they're gung ho on onboarding architectures like riscv they probably care about making sure... the primary secondary architecture people normally have is not broken
2025-04-09 15:10:29 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !link https://issues.redhat.com/browse/RHEL-86174
2025-04-09 15:10:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> should we enable proposed updates in Hyperscale
2025-04-09 15:10:40 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !link https://gitlab.com/redhat/centos-stream/release-engineering/pungi-centos/-/merge_requests/970
2025-04-09 15:10:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> because we can build that *today* and unblock you
2025-04-09 15:10:48 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yes please
2025-04-09 15:10:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> want to file the infra ticket? I'll do the build
2025-04-09 15:11:07 <@ngompa:fedora.im> for sure
2025-04-09 15:11:09 <@davide:cavalca.name> oh yeah we should do that, good call
2025-04-09 15:11:15 <@salimma:fedora.im> (ask Fabian to plumb in proposed updates repos)
2025-04-09 15:11:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> !action Neal will ask Fabian to enable proposed updates repos for Hyperscale builds
2025-04-09 15:11:31 <@davide:cavalca.name> do we need to add a dependency between the release packages?
2025-04-09 15:11:39 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Yes.
2025-04-09 15:11:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh, yeah, that too
2025-04-09 15:11:46 <@davide:cavalca.name> we don't depend on epel explicitly though
2025-04-09 15:11:49 <@davide:cavalca.name> maybe we need that too
2025-04-09 15:11:52 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Yes we do.
2025-04-09 15:11:59 <@ngompa:fedora.im> the release packages will not install without epel-release
2025-04-09 15:12:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> maybe we should - yeah enable them both at once
2025-04-09 15:12:04 <@davide:cavalca.name> and update the mock configs as well
2025-04-09 15:12:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> Davide, want to do that?
2025-04-09 15:12:21 <@davide:cavalca.name> actually Michel Lind UTC-6 we should add proposed to the centos sig mock configs too
2025-04-09 15:12:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll have my day full bringing up some packages for work today, so I can do the vulkan build but probably nothing else
2025-04-09 15:12:41 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !action Neal will file a ticket asking for CBS to be upgraded to support new kiwi plugin features
2025-04-09 15:12:42 <@davide:cavalca.name> any objections to moving the release package to gitlab while we're at it?
2025-04-09 15:12:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca: yeah, enable but off by default right?
2025-04-09 15:12:51 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I already moved the package to gitlab
2025-04-09 15:12:53 <@salimma:fedora.im> so people can turn it on if they want
2025-04-09 15:13:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> no objection, I move everything I touch to gitlab now
2025-04-09 15:13:22 <@ngompa:fedora.im> that's what I've been doing too
2025-04-09 15:13:34 <@davide:cavalca.name> on that note, Shaun and I met with gitlab yesterday, and we're good to go with the migration and to use it officially
2025-04-09 15:13:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> !action Davide will plumb proposed updates and EPEL to the hyperscale release package as dependencies and work on adjusting mok configs
2025-04-09 15:13:50 <@ngompa:fedora.im> https://gitlab.com/CentOS/Hyperscale/rpms/centos-release-hyperscale
2025-04-09 15:13:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> I am on my Dell laptop today, apologies for the bad typing
2025-04-09 15:14:08 <@ngompa:fedora.im> no worries, today I'm on the bad MBP so same issue :)
2025-04-09 15:14:44 <@ngompa:fedora.im> (the butterfly keyboard one)
2025-04-09 15:15:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I would use the framework but now it needs a jump start each time it's off
2025-04-09 15:16:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> next topic I guess?
2025-04-09 15:16:32 <@davide:cavalca.name> !topic Announcements
2025-04-09 15:16:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> does a package update count as an announcement?
2025-04-09 15:17:05 <@ngompa:fedora.im> sure :)
2025-04-09 15:17:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> !info ethtool is updated to 6.14 in hs.el9 - I'll build it in hs.el10 too today now that it's in Fedora rawhide
2025-04-09 15:17:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> hmm I probably should not have used pronouns there oh well
2025-04-09 15:18:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> it's also moved to gitlab so the branches are c9s-hs and (soon) c10s-hs
2025-04-09 15:18:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> upstream was apparently awol for a while, so the version jumps from 6.11 to 6.14 (we never had 6.11 in HS, we had 6.10 plus a backported patch)
2025-04-09 15:18:49 <@ngompa:fedora.im> neato
2025-04-09 15:19:11 <@ngompa:fedora.im> is that it for you?
2025-04-09 15:20:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> yes
2025-04-09 15:20:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry, babysitting
2025-04-09 15:20:47 <@ngompa:fedora.im> cool
2025-04-09 15:21:32 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !info Hyperscale kernel will rebase to 6.14 next week, pending the results of the Fedora Kernel Test Week.
2025-04-09 15:21:44 <@ngompa:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2025-04-06_Kernel_6.14_Test_Week
2025-04-09 15:22:44 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I held off from 6.13 for so long because the test week during that rebase bubbled up a lot of serious issues. Hopefully things will be smoother this time. Anyone who is able to participate in the test week in Fedora, please do so, it helps us too!
2025-04-09 15:23:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, 6.13 seems horrible, I wish we skipped it in Fedora
2025-04-09 15:23:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> there's a lot of noise at work from people who don't realize they can just keep booting old kernels
2025-04-09 15:23:37 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Empirically, it seems the longterm and first stable after longterm releases seem to be worse than the surrounding releases
2025-04-09 15:23:51 <@ngompa:fedora.im> after a couple of years of doing this, I've noticed that trend
2025-04-09 15:24:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> the longterm is worse? lol
2025-04-09 15:24:58 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yup
2025-04-09 15:25:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> I hope the point release for longterm is better then
2025-04-09 15:25:05 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I've observed _that_ issue for years
2025-04-09 15:25:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> otherwise... this is really bad engineering
2025-04-09 15:25:19 <@ngompa:fedora.im> going all the way back to almost 10 years ago
2025-04-09 15:25:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> grumble grumble year of desktop linux but desktop vendors never test their own hardware
2025-04-09 15:25:37 <@ngompa:fedora.im> people come out of the woodwork for longterm releases that don't show up otherwise
2025-04-09 15:26:00 <@ngompa:fedora.im> so a pile of new code that basically lived in someone's vendor tree and wasn't broadly tested gets integrated _right then_
2025-04-09 15:26:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> maybe anything new should be marked as experimental and only after they've been around for at least one kernel release can you get them into longterm
2025-04-09 15:26:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> anyway...
2025-04-09 15:26:49 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I don't disagree
2025-04-09 15:26:57 <@ngompa:fedora.im> but they got rid of that stuff 10+ years ago :(
2025-04-09 15:27:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> not sure you can do that with the current kernel model. anyway, moving on
2025-04-09 15:27:14 <@ngompa:fedora.im> indeed
2025-04-09 15:27:26 <@ngompa:fedora.im> just would like folks to participate in the test week if they can
2025-04-09 15:27:30 <@ngompa:fedora.im> it helps me out :)
2025-04-09 15:27:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'll post it at work
2025-04-09 15:27:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> at least then if things blow up afterwards I can point out they did not test so...
2025-04-09 15:27:59 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yup
2025-04-09 15:28:28 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I don't have anything else, so we can move on
2025-04-09 15:28:40 <@davide:cavalca.name> !topic Tickets
2025-04-09 15:28:52 <@davide:cavalca.name> I don't think we have anything here?
2025-04-09 15:30:20 <@davide:cavalca.name> !topic Membership
2025-04-09 15:30:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> so I think we dropped the ball again here
2025-04-09 15:30:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> if it's a Meta coworker let's send them a calendar invite next time
2025-04-09 15:31:09 <@davide:cavalca.name> yeah, fair
2025-04-09 15:31:15 <@davide:cavalca.name> !topic Miscellaneous
2025-04-09 15:31:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> but Neal wants to talk about purging membership
2025-04-09 15:31:29 <@davide:cavalca.name> oh right, sorry
2025-04-09 15:31:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> so ... probably the previous topic still applies? :)
2025-04-09 15:31:34 <@davide:cavalca.name> yeah we should do that
2025-04-09 15:31:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> !topic Membership
2025-04-09 15:31:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> should we adopt the same policy Fedora use to purge provenpackagers?
2025-04-09 15:32:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> is it 6 months or 12 months of complete inactivity?
2025-04-09 15:32:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> we can make that "either package builds or showing up in the meeting log"
2025-04-09 15:32:36 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I think 6 months is reasonable here
2025-04-09 15:32:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> and probably script it otherwise this becomes hellish
2025-04-09 15:33:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> do we make an exception if they used to be more involved? like our Twitter friends
2025-04-09 15:33:19 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we have weekly meetings, so you have to show up at least 1 in 24 meetings
2025-04-09 15:33:59 <@salimma:fedora.im> biweekly :)
2025-04-09 15:34:02 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I'm fine with giving more grace to specifically those who helped us create it and were heavily involved long enough
2025-04-09 15:34:15 <@ngompa:fedora.im> blech, so 1 in 12 then
2025-04-09 15:34:23 <@ngompa:fedora.im> it's still plenty :)
2025-04-09 15:34:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> so - 6 months inactivity, put up for review, then we get to vote on who to waive at most once
2025-04-09 15:34:44 <@ngompa:fedora.im> and there's also the social hangout, which adds 6 more chances
2025-04-09 15:34:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> ugh those are hard to track though
2025-04-09 15:35:03 <@ngompa:fedora.im> fair
2025-04-09 15:35:14 <@ngompa:fedora.im> but if someone has made an impression with us, we'll remember :)
2025-04-09 15:35:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> I guess we can do that during the review, if anyone remembers seeing them at a hangout we can say they are active and move on
2025-04-09 15:35:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> if nobody remembers then too ba
2025-04-09 15:35:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> too bad
2025-04-09 15:35:26 <@ngompa:fedora.im> yeah
2025-04-09 15:35:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> I hate this keyboard so much, it's worse than Apple ones
2025-04-09 15:35:44 <@ngompa:fedora.im> even the crappy butterfly ones?
2025-04-09 15:35:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> yes
2025-04-09 15:35:56 <@ngompa:fedora.im> that one can't keep up with my typing speed and my fingers _hurt_
2025-04-09 15:36:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> Dell UX at its worse is basically aping Apple just like GNOME
2025-04-09 15:36:12 <@ngompa:fedora.im> that's fair :)
2025-04-09 15:36:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I get both too. it can't keep up and my fingers hurt
2025-04-09 15:36:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> and I got burned by framework too so probably no framework for a year until the sting passes
2025-04-09 15:36:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> anyway... ok, I guess someone should write up the membership process
2025-04-09 15:36:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> I can do that if we're not in a rush
2025-04-09 15:37:50 <@salimma:fedora.im> we should also probably revisit the meeting time, I suspect most of our potential members is on the west coast so 8am is a bit brutal
2025-04-09 15:37:55 <@ngompa:fedora.im> no rush but we really do need to clean this up
2025-04-09 15:38:12 <@ngompa:fedora.im> we probably can't move it because we're surrounded by other meetings that we attend
2025-04-09 15:38:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I think I can have a PR with this change text this week
2025-04-09 15:38:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, meeting bankrupty
2025-04-09 15:38:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> bankruptcy ffs
2025-04-09 15:39:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> also if anyone knows who can remove stale meetings from the Fedora calendar that'd be great
2025-04-09 15:39:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> the Rust SIG meeting has not happened for years :P
2025-04-09 15:39:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> !action Michel to send a PR with proposed membership cleanup process
2025-04-09 15:39:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> !topic Miscellaneous
2025-04-09 15:40:07 <@ngompa:fedora.im> wow we went through this quick
2025-04-09 15:42:38 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I want to highlight that because of our work and the work we've done with Troy Dawson on CentOS Alternative Images, it is very likely that official CentOS images will move to kiwi.
2025-04-09 15:43:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh nice
2025-04-09 15:43:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma has already given cookies to ngompa during the F41 timeframe
2025-04-09 15:43:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> now we just need to declare it Container Native
2025-04-09 15:44:11 <@zodbot:fedora.im> rcolebaugh has already given cookies to ngompa during the F41 timeframe
2025-04-09 15:44:14 <@ngompa:fedora.im> Yes! 😂
2025-04-09 15:45:23 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I'm helping this effort by writing the initial descriptions (based on my work in Hyperscale, Alt Images, and ELN): https://gitlab.com/Conan_Kudo/centos-stream-kiwi-descriptions
2025-04-09 15:45:41 <@ngompa:fedora.im> at the very least I will be syncing back in the container definitions into the hyperscale descriptions
2025-04-09 15:45:55 <@ngompa:fedora.im> so we can have Hyperscale 10 container images
2025-04-09 15:46:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh that will be great for quick testing
2025-04-09 15:46:50 <@ngompa:fedora.im> and yes, this means we can also have toolbox images if we want
2025-04-09 15:47:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> isn't it spelled toolbx now? or did they revert bak
2025-04-09 15:47:25 <@salimma:fedora.im> I really hate this keyboard
2025-04-09 15:47:35 <@ngompa:fedora.im> project is toolbx, thing is still toolbox, and the images are still called toolbox
2025-04-09 15:47:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> so on one hand I agree toolbox is a better design but distrobox is so much more practical
2025-04-09 15:48:01 <@ngompa:fedora.im> both use the same formatted images
2025-04-09 15:48:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> not quite true, distrobox let you use *any* image. it's a superset
2025-04-09 15:48:31 <@ngompa:fedora.im> when we make hyperscale atomic with btrfs transactional updates, we could ship distrobox if you'd like
2025-04-09 15:48:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> unless toolbox has improved on that front?
2025-04-09 15:48:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> you just point distrobox to the registry url, that's all
2025-04-09 15:49:01 <@ngompa:fedora.im> I don't pay too much attention to the weirdness of the toolbox ecosystem personally
2025-04-09 15:49:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> so it can use toolbox images but also just any Docker image
2025-04-09 15:49:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> and yes distrobox is a pile of bash scripts so... scary
2025-04-09 15:50:41 <@ngompa:fedora.im> but with Jonathan Wright making progress on dnf5 for EPEL 10, we should prioritize porting things to DNF 5 sooner rather than later
2025-04-09 15:51:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah testing dnf5 in containers would definitely help, lower the barrier of entry, before people try it on bare metal
2025-04-09 15:51:28 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> Oh hi
2025-04-09 15:51:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> we have summoned Jonathan
2025-04-09 15:51:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> "a wild Jonathan appeared"
2025-04-09 15:54:00 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> I hope to have dnf5 into epel-testing this week or next
2025-04-09 15:54:31 <@jonathanspw:fedora.im> only blocker that I know of now is lining up the logistics of some merges and builds into fedora and subsequently branching into epel10
2025-04-09 15:55:01 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma gave a cookie to jonathanspw. They now have 19 cookies, 1 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2025-04-09 15:56:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> rcolebaugh gave a cookie to jonathanspw. They now have 20 cookies, 2 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2025-04-09 15:56:57 <@davide:cavalca.name> I think that's it for today
2025-04-09 15:57:16 <@davide:cavalca.name> thanks everyone, and see you soon
2025-04-09 15:57:24 <@rcolebaugh:matrix.org> Thank you!
2025-04-09 15:57:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ngompa gave a cookie to jonathanspw. They now have 21 cookies, 3 of which were obtained in the Fedora 41 release cycle
2025-04-09 15:57:26 <@davide:cavalca.name> !endmeeting