2025-05-21 14:01:54 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !startmeeting Fedora Council meeting
2025-05-21 14:01:57 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-05-21 14:01:54 UTC
2025-05-21 14:01:58 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Fedora Council meeting'
2025-05-21 14:02:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !group members council
2025-05-21 14:02:36 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Members of council: Aoife Moloney, asamalik, Aleksandra Fedorova, Alberto Rodriguez Sanchez, David Cantrell, Jason Brooks, jflory7 (@jflory7:fedora.im, @fca:fedoraproject.org), Jona Azizaj, Matthew Miller
2025-05-21 14:03:17 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-21 14:03:18 <@zodbot:fedora.im> David Cantrell (dcantrell) - he / him / his
2025-05-21 14:03:26 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-21 14:03:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Aoife Moloney (amoloney)
2025-05-21 14:04:08 <@amoloney:fedora.im> just me and you today so far David :p
2025-05-21 14:05:01 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> I here?
2025-05-21 14:05:07 <@asamalik:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-21 14:05:09 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Adam Samalik (asamalik) - he / him / his
2025-05-21 14:05:18 <@amoloney:fedora.im> hi Jef! and Adam!
2025-05-21 14:05:53 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> we need to add Jef Spaleta to the roster so he can do a proper "bang hi"
2025-05-21 14:07:57 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I might need  Justins magikery to add Jef to wherever the robot is pulling council info from
2025-05-21 14:08:44 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> i also need to do whatever calendar magic to add these to my calendar.. 
2025-05-21 14:09:20 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I copy it into my personal one, but Ill make sure youre on the fedocal one after this meeting
2025-05-21 14:09:21 <@jonatoni:fedora.im> !hi
2025-05-21 14:09:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jona Azizaj (jonatoni) - she / her / hers
2025-05-21 14:10:53 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I think we can probably get underway
2025-05-21 14:12:39 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info Agenda: Todays agenda we are mainly following up with closing out the proven packager statement counicl wish to make, planning our Flock AMA session and discussing the https://endof10.org/ campaign
2025-05-21 14:12:49 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/council-meeting-agenda-2025-05-21/154221
2025-05-21 14:13:03 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Council Statement follow up on proven packager incident
2025-05-21 14:14:53 <@amoloney:fedora.im> So Tl;Dr we are at a final version on the statement the council wishes to make regarding this issue that happened back in December '24. FESCo and Peter have reviewed the final version and we are in agreement to proceed. I propose formally we send it via email to devel-annnounce, actioning mattdm as current FPL to send. I dont think this conversation happened anywhere else other than the mailing list, so it is appropriate to address it and call it to a close there. Thoughts?
2025-05-21 14:17:33 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I know we have a majority +1 in the private channel, but Im bringing it up here for better transparency
2025-05-21 14:18:16 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Giving it a final 2 mins, then actioning Matthew and calling this topic to a close
2025-05-21 14:21:45 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !agreed Council will send their statement under the current FPL's email address to devel-announce today to close out the issue
2025-05-21 14:22:16 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !action mattdm to send V3 version of statement via email today, May 21 to devela-nnounce
2025-05-21 14:22:42 <@amoloney:fedora.im> stupid fingers and stupid no going backsies with zodbot :/ devel-announce
2025-05-21 14:23:05 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Anyway, next order of business is requested by Justin Wheeler - are you here?
2025-05-21 14:23:32 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic endof10.org campaign discussion
2025-05-21 14:24:25 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I will be honest, I dont know anything about this yet. I havnt read the discussion, so if someone who is more knowledgable would like to lead the conversation, please do!
2025-05-21 14:25:46 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I read the page and it appears to be a marketing opportunity taking advantage of the end of Windows 10 support.  those devices are entirely capable of running Linux, so what not
2025-05-21 14:25:58 <@amoloney:fedora.im> cool!
2025-05-21 14:26:27 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> also it looks sponsored by KDE, not that it matters
2025-05-21 14:26:50 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I think Fedora could take advantage of this, but it'd require some people in the community to sort of take lead of the initiative
2025-05-21 14:27:07 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> helping people install, migrate, etc
2025-05-21 14:27:13 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> we could make it as large as we wanted
2025-05-21 14:29:17 <@amoloney:fedora.im> It sounds great. My practical 2c is this though - is this something the council shoud/wants to own, and we try to source leads for this? Because historically we are not great at doing that :-/
2025-05-21 14:29:44 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> that's my thought to.  I don't think we [council] have time to own this
2025-05-21 14:29:45 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Or is this being proposed to council for support? And if so, what kind of support can we/should we offer
2025-05-21 14:30:12 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> if there are people wanting to do this for fedora, I fully support that and stand by with my hoof of approval
2025-05-21 14:31:23 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Agreed, and I would be happy to help in whatever meaningful way we can as council too if there is interest for making this a thing
2025-05-21 14:32:03 <@amoloney:fedora.im> without Justin Wheeler who may or may not know more about this than we do here to talk about it more, should we punt it for an async topic?
2025-05-21 14:32:24 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> I say so.  punt
2025-05-21 14:32:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I'm sorry, I'm here now 
2025-05-21 14:33:21 <@amoloney:fedora.im> were on the 10 topic. Consensus between us is if this is something council is being asked to spin up, we re going to struggle
2025-05-21 14:33:23 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I shared this as "interesting" and also, there is some chatter that Fedora should sign. 
2025-05-21 14:33:37 <@jflory7:fedora.im> No action is needed by us right now 
2025-05-21 14:33:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But I expect we may be asked to use the logo here
2025-05-21 14:33:55 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And I'm curious if anyone has a good reason NOT to 
2025-05-21 14:34:09 <@asamalik:fedora.im> I'm in favour of doing "something" about this, because more people will be listening thanks to that initiative - so would be good if they heard about Fedora 
2025-05-21 14:34:33 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is sort of future speculation because I think this should come from the community, but I know with Flock around the corner, we are running out of cognitive brain power time :P
2025-05-21 14:34:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> FWIW, I think it makes sense 
2025-05-21 14:34:51 <@asamalik:fedora.im> and/or other similar initiatives :) 
2025-05-21 14:35:07 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I know Microsoft is one of our Flock sponsors, but more specifically, it is Microsoft Azure 😝
2025-05-21 14:35:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Well, that's all I really had for this topic. And sorry again for being late. 
2025-05-21 14:35:47 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Agreed that 'Fedora' should do something, but I have my doubts that if its left to council to drive, we will not do it justice. But if this is coming from others in our community already, and council is just required to be supportive, then we can +1 a logo request when it comes in
2025-05-21 14:36:14 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The level of Council input that I am imagining is a trademark request
2025-05-21 14:36:20 <@jflory7:fedora.im> To put our logo up there, maybe 
2025-05-21 14:36:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Again, I'm waiting for that request, but I expect we will be asked for permission to use the trademark 
2025-05-21 14:36:55 <@asamalik:fedora.im> maybe encouraging Fedora community members to be noisy about Fedora this year? Because many of them, likely being happy Linux users already, might not realise what's happening in the Windows world
2025-05-21 14:36:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> So I wanted to get this thought in your heads before the ticket comes, and before Flock really 😛
2025-05-21 14:37:10 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> do we have to wait for the request? Can be proactively engage and offer it?
2025-05-21 14:37:16 <@asamalik:fedora.im> so if they want to convert more friends, now it's a good time :D 
2025-05-21 14:37:36 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hmm, well. One of the wranglers emailed me and Joseph about it
2025-05-21 14:37:41 <@jflory7:fedora.im> So, I guess we could 
2025-05-21 14:37:43 <@asamalik:fedora.im> and gaming got really good recently, too! That wasn't the case some years ago!
2025-05-21 14:37:59 <@asamalik:fedora.im> so we're in a pretty good position I'd say
2025-05-21 14:38:01 <@jflory7:fedora.im> It's true, thanks Bazzite friends 😝
2025-05-21 14:38:17 <@jflory7:fedora.im> OK, so as I expected, I'm not hearing any reasons NOT to 
2025-05-21 14:38:23 <@amoloney:fedora.im> So will we action an approval of Fedora being involved in this?
2025-05-21 14:38:33 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Provided there are folks in our community who can lead it
2025-05-21 14:38:44 <@amoloney:fedora.im> (sounds like there are already)
2025-05-21 14:39:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We can do a soft approval until a ticket vote is ready with more clear details
2025-05-21 14:39:18 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I wanted to test the waters here and the waters are warm, so expect more to come here 
2025-05-21 14:39:37 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I don't think much more is needed right now other than an awareness boost and a chance to ask any clarifying questions about this campaign 
2025-05-21 14:39:48 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> initially it just sounds like granting them use of the trademark with whatever conditions we need
2025-05-21 14:40:08 <@asamalik:fedora.im> oh that's a good point
2025-05-21 14:40:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This is the level of Council engagement I expect here, i.e. trademark request.
2025-05-21 14:40:14 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> the only sticking point that I could see possibly mentioned is that this week Microsoft announced WSL is open source and Fedora was already officially supported there.  but, I don't think anyone will care.  they don't make money on Windows anymore really.  and they want to drop hardware support for the old stuff, so letting those people use Linux should be fine according to what MS has been preaching
2025-05-21 14:40:42 <@asamalik:fedora.im> maybe clear guidance of "this is how you can use the Fedora logo" would be helpful. And even though we probably have it somewhere, pointing people to that place actively might be worth doing
2025-05-21 14:41:19 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Yeah, this sponsorship piece was a sticky thing in my mind. Not that sponsoring means you get a free pass, but we like our Microsoft friends who do good work on Linux, so I don't want to _harm_ that relationship unnecessarily
2025-05-21 14:42:00 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> yeah, but hopefully this is one reason we have distinct branding and trademarks between Red Hat and Fedora
2025-05-21 14:42:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Good point, this is probably going to be the heart of the trademark review request. We will have to sort this, but I suggest we defer the sorting until we get the ticket
2025-05-21 14:42:10 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> if Red Hat were to endorse endof10.org, that could be a problem
2025-05-21 14:42:14 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> but Fedora, that's different
2025-05-21 14:42:14 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Exactly
2025-05-21 14:42:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Okay. If no further questions about the Fedora engagement here, I propose we push forward 
2025-05-21 14:43:08 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> push it
2025-05-21 14:43:09 <@jflory7:fedora.im> We can note general positive opinions 
2025-05-21 14:43:10 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> push it real good
2025-05-21 14:43:29 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But note that we will wait for a formal ticket proposal 
2025-05-21 14:44:01 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 😎🎵 🎶
2025-05-21 14:44:25 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Want to sumarise an agreed statement Justin Wheeler ?
2025-05-21 14:44:58 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I can give it a go, but you will prob have better wording
2025-05-21 14:44:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Sure. On it. 
2025-05-21 14:45:40 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info We discussed this campaign because of ongoing conversations in community about Fedora's participation. At this point, there is no formal request or ticket, but the goal is to raise awareness and prime the topic for an eventual ticket.
2025-05-21 14:46:42 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !agreed We agreed that the campaign aligns with Fedora, and we also considered our sponsor relationships. However, we feel like this is something appropriate for the Fedora brand to support. Until we get a ticket, no further action by the Council, but we encourage a community member to bring this forward and make the trademark request.
2025-05-21 14:47:05 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !info No further action required by the Council at this time. No action items either (yet). 
2025-05-21 14:47:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> <eof>
2025-05-21 14:47:22 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Flock AMA & mini-meet up
2025-05-21 14:47:26 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oh wow, Element on Android doesn't show this text
2025-05-21 14:47:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> But, EOF
2025-05-21 14:47:43 <@amoloney:fedora.im> We saw it, or at least I did
2025-05-21 14:47:53 <@amoloney:fedora.im> anywhoo, I have a suggestion for the council AMA
2025-05-21 14:48:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Whooo!
2025-05-21 14:48:10 <@amoloney:fedora.im> What do folks think about sending a form to collect some advance questions?
2025-05-21 14:48:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 100% will make it easier
2025-05-21 14:48:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> And give some time for thoughtful questions 
2025-05-21 14:48:53 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Maybe a Google Form just so we don't have to over-engineer LimeSurvey for our needs? 
2025-05-21 14:49:21 <@jflory7:fedora.im> It could be a two question form 
2025-05-21 14:49:37 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 2. Your identity (optional but might help frame context) 
2025-05-21 14:49:37 <@jflory7:fedora.im> 1. Your question
2025-05-21 14:49:58 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Not sure if we need to ask anything else than those two pieces of info 
2025-05-21 14:50:05 <@asamalik:fedora.im> how cool are people in Fedora with Google Forms these days? 
2025-05-21 14:50:08 <@amoloney:fedora.im> yes, absolutely! We will have the contrib survey and event survey in lime so no need for this to be in one. A simple google form is exactly enough and I think 2 questions is fine 👌
2025-05-21 14:50:20 <@amoloney:fedora.im> reasonably
2025-05-21 14:50:30 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Pretty mixed but not as in arms about it. I think the important thing is not requiring a Google account to fill the form
2025-05-21 14:50:34 <@amoloney:fedora.im> reasonablt
2025-05-21 14:50:36 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Therefore, making it truly anonymous 
2025-05-21 14:50:36 <@amoloney:fedora.im> reasonably
2025-05-21 14:50:44 <@jflory7:fedora.im> That's what I think people want when we use Google Forms 
2025-05-21 14:51:06 <@amoloney:fedora.im> if ppl dont want to fill it out, they can ask it live :p
2025-05-21 14:51:08 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Then, easy +1 from me. I could help promote the form once it is available.
2025-05-21 14:51:18 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Yep, exactly
2025-05-21 14:51:57 <@jflory7:fedora.im> More specifically, I can cover Flock Matrix channels and maybe prep an Eventbrite email too. Eventbrite feels like doing dark magic something though
2025-05-21 14:52:15 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> so im assuming the reason we are talking about a google form is that these questions could be sensitive in nature so we dont want maximum transparency for others to see proposed questions?
2025-05-21 14:52:20 <@jflory7:fedora.im> (not the email itself, but getting Eventbrite to send an email that I want it to) 
2025-05-21 14:52:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Not quite, but rather, there is a strong apathy toward Google and Google services by a vocal minority of our community on ethical grounds
2025-05-21 14:53:05 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> my experience with AMAs in other contexts is its a discussion forum tread with votes
2025-05-21 14:53:15 <@amoloney:fedora.im> oh that could work too
2025-05-21 14:53:34 <@asamalik:fedora.im> yeah that would be nice I think! 
2025-05-21 14:53:38 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oh, not a bad idea. And does encourage some use of Fedora Discussion
2025-05-21 14:53:49 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Lets do discourse thread then?
2025-05-21 14:53:56 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> it also encourages.. lurkers... to upvote good questions
2025-05-21 14:54:12 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !idea Instead of a form, why if we did a Fedora Discussion topic, allowing people to up vote their favorite questions? 
2025-05-21 14:54:19 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> two personalities... the people asking questions.. and the people wanting answers
2025-05-21 14:54:20 <@amoloney:fedora.im> +1
2025-05-21 14:54:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> +1
2025-05-21 14:54:40 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Hmmm
2025-05-21 14:54:52 <@asamalik:fedora.im> +1 
2025-05-21 14:54:52 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Jef Spaleta: Maybe you would like to make the Fedora Discussion topic? 
2025-05-21 14:54:54 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> and some questions... end up being good discussiones... that the council doesnt have to answer
2025-05-21 14:54:59 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I mean, it would get your face out there :) 
2025-05-21 14:55:14 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> if I knew how I would.. ill attempt it friday?
2025-05-21 14:55:36 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Ask Matthew to show you around discourse ;-)
2025-05-21 14:55:48 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I don't think the topic itself needs to be too complicated 
2025-05-21 14:55:54 <@jflory7:fedora.im> The key part comes in the promotion 
2025-05-21 14:56:01 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> friday is my office day with matthew
2025-05-21 14:56:07 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Not everyone uses Discourse or checks it regularly, so we need to do some shoulder-tapping 
2025-05-21 14:56:28 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I can help specifically with that
2025-05-21 14:57:04 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> hopefully not this friday.  Friday is a company holiday
2025-05-21 14:57:07 <@amoloney:fedora.im> Ok aim for Friday to get the thread setup, and if you get stuck ping me and I can take up the slack on that while Justin can cover the promotion
2025-05-21 14:57:13 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Oh right. Lol
2025-05-21 14:57:26 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> Red Hat Recharge and Monday is US Memorial Day
2025-05-21 14:57:35 <@amoloney:fedora.im> *ping me *Monday* then :D
2025-05-21 14:57:40 <@dcantrell:fedora.im> we [US] finally get one of those fancy four day holidays the Europeans talk about  :)
2025-05-21 14:57:43 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> not a holiday for matthew and I... just one of those transition things
2025-05-21 14:57:44 <@amoloney:fedora.im> darnit! Tuesday!
2025-05-21 14:58:04 <@jflory7:fedora.im> FWIW, I am trying to swap those holidays to take them _after_ Flock, may or may not be successful 😝
2025-05-21 14:58:32 <@asamalik:fedora.im> 93 seconds left :P 
2025-05-21 14:58:47 <@jflory7:fedora.im> You can expect I'll be around in some capacity on Friday, but if I am working holidays, then know after Flock, I'll be 🌫️
2025-05-21 14:58:51 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Thanks
2025-05-21 14:58:55 <@jflory7:fedora.im> So, I think we have a plan 
2025-05-21 14:59:03 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Jef can work on the Fedora Discussion topic 
2025-05-21 14:59:08 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Get feedback from us as needed this week 
2025-05-21 14:59:11 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Promote it next week 
2025-05-21 14:59:15 <@jflory7:fedora.im> WDYT? 
2025-05-21 14:59:19 <@amoloney:fedora.im> +1
2025-05-21 14:59:31 <@asamalik:fedora.im> +1
2025-05-21 14:59:35 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I'll start typing an official note for Meetbot while waiting for votes 
2025-05-21 15:00:16 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !agreed Present members of Council agreed as next steps, Jef will draft a Fedora Discussion topic post to solicit feedback on Council AMA questions. Next week, Jef will sync back with Council to help promote the topic.
2025-05-21 15:00:43 <@jflory7:fedora.im> !action @jspaleta @mattdm Collaborate on Council AMA question solicitation topic
2025-05-21 15:00:46 <@jflory7:fedora.im> EOF 
2025-05-21 15:00:54 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I mean I could come up with more but I think we're out of time 
2025-05-21 15:01:05 <@amoloney:fedora.im> I had one other thing for flock but we can chat in main room async
2025-05-21 15:01:09 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !topic Announcements
2025-05-21 15:02:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> WFM 👍🏻
2025-05-21 15:02:31 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info Fedora Elections are live! Voting will close June 2, 2025 @ 23:59 UTC for FESCo, Council and Mindshare seats. EPEL does not have an election box as the number of candidates equal the number of seats available, however you can still read the candidates interviews on the community blog https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/f42-elections-voting-is-now-open/
2025-05-21 15:02:34 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/f42-elections-voting-is-now-open/
2025-05-21 15:02:49 <@amoloney:fedora.im> any other last minute fyis?
2025-05-21 15:02:50 <@jflory7:fedora.im> This election round is going to be super tough
2025-05-21 15:02:56 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Lots of hats in the ring! 
2025-05-21 15:03:10 <@jflory7:fedora.im> I didn't have any pre-planned, so… no
2025-05-21 15:03:25 <@jflory7:fedora.im> Thanks Aoife for wrangling and driving 👍🏻
2025-05-21 15:04:12 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info F42 Release Party is planned for Thursday, May 29 from 1300 - 1500 or 1600 UTC (depending on content) in a dedicated matrix room with presentations streamed live, and some pre-recoreded via youtube. Registration and wiki page will be published today with details
2025-05-21 15:04:50 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !info Register for Flock if you are attending! https://fedoraproject.org/flock/2025/
2025-05-21 15:04:52 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !link https://fedoraproject.org/flock/2025/
2025-05-21 15:05:00 <@amoloney:fedora.im> thats the big 'uns
2025-05-21 15:05:02 <@amoloney:fedora.im> !endmeeting