#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:00:21

!startmeeting fedora-server

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:23

Meeting started at 2025-06-18 17:00:21 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

17:00:23

The Meeting name is 'fedora-server '

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:00:29

!topic Welcome / roll call

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:00:34

!hello

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:00:39

I'll post the agenda in 2-3 minutes.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:00:39

As usual, let's wait a moment for everybody to show up.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:00:40

Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:00:51

!hello

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:00:54

Jocelyn Gould (korora) - she / her / hers

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:01:37

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:01:42

John Himpel (jwhimpel)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:02:11

Oh, we arfe quick today. Less then 2 mins and we have our quorum.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:02:22

Welcome everybody.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:02:52

hello, all!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:03:02

Oh, we are quick today. Less then 2 mins and we have our quorum.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:03:35

We should pick up the opportunity and start.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:03:49

!topic Agenda

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:00

!info Open Floor

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:00

!info Follow-up actions & announcements

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:00

!info Server requirements for the upcoming updated version of Anaconda

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:00

!info Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:20

Anything to add? or to remove?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:46

OK. Let's start

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:04:58

!topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:09

Regarding the action, nothing new. See

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:09

!link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2025/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:23

According to our voting we have 2 new members:

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:31

https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/161

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:31

Jocelyn +7 / +-0 / -0

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:39

https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/162

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:39

Paul +6 / +-0 / -0

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:05:47

Welcome, both of you!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:05:53

Congratulations and now also officially, a very warm welcome!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:06:02

I am very pleased about this positive development.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:07:17

A follow-up to Flock?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:07:25

Thanks to Emmanuel for the recap.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:08:00

I'm sorry to have missed Emmanuel's recap. Is there a URL?

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:08:57

https://blogs.fedora-fr.org/ is back up so I'll be posting there tonight and it will go to the planet

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:09:09

I'm sure the list archives should have a copy

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:09:34

Emmanuel Seyman: Thx

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:09:44

I had another conversation with Nirik about our distribution media. I think I already wrote about that. as an answer.

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:09:52

https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/TD7BLGL2PX2LYDQVSPCALVXK5TJMUJE3/

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:10:14

Thank you, Jocelyn (she/her)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:10:42

Then I had an influenza attack and was out of action. for several days.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:11:27

So i couldn't inform about another conversation with Stephen about an idea to supplement Ansible with a Cockpit-based installation of selected services. Maybe also as a web frontend for our Ansible playbooks.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:11:58

We could get some support from the Cockpit team for such a pilot project.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:12:57

Any additional comment?

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:13:35

I do want to give them a recap of the survey results that impact them

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:13:51

I've not had a chance to even start playing with the ansible playbooks in the copr. (I still don't understand enough about ansible yet)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:14:24

Emmanuel Seyman: yeah, we should spent some effort into a completion of our survey and then write an Fedora Magazine article.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:14:59

Jocelyn (she/her): Welcome in the club :-) (same for me)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:03

OK, let's go forward.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:15

!topic 2. Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:24

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/138

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:33

!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/ANSAGBZNK4LN72OWJLGCD2AFNSFGPFKW/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:33

!link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/7KUVM6SC5A4SQWP4QMFFRWRNNP6F6AUV/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:33

!link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/c/5647c4d701ab3d2b0cc95806bba3d4f2c5fbc162?branch=stg

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:16:56

I jumped ahead... LOL This is what I've not gotten a chance to even think about yet.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:16:59

John Himpel: and Emmanuel Seyman : your turn :-)

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:18:06

I'm awaiting Emmanuel's publishing his work. Then we can discuss the difference and decide on a way forward.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:18:41

John Himpel: publishing what, exactly

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:18:52

My latest status: We wanted to find/demonstrate a way to merge John's work, especially his configuration, with the standard scripts from deBook.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:19:07

My latest status: We wanted to find/demonstrate a way to merge John's work, especially his configuration, with the standard scripts from deBock.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:20:07

Peter Boy: I told you I would write a blog article on how to enable the copr and use the roles provided by the rpms. That's still being worked on

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:20:49

I've been quite busy and distracted lately, so if I have missed seeing the proposed DeBock/Seyman roles, I apologize.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:21:20

Emmanuel Seyman: Yeah, and based on that we wanted combine this wir John's, specifically all the Server related configs. Or do I remeber wrong?

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:22:40

I need to clean up a couple of things (especially the README.md) and then republish to our repository.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:23:58

I remember we talked about using rdebock's role server-side and using John's role on the client

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:24:09

We had a discussion of releasing as roles or as collections. I thought the Flock attendees were going to seek advise from nirik on what he suggested as he maintains a lot of ansible stuff for Fedora.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:24:35

I can concentrate on the client side, if that's what we decide.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:25:57

okay, that sounds like the best path forward

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:26:27

As I remember, John's work contains a lot of Server Edition specifics. We need that, absolutely, I guess.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:27:01

I had a look at DeBocks scripts. They are elaborate, but a lot of incomplete for Server Edition.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:27:26

So, we need John's Server thingies, too. I guess

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:27:39

It did both an install and configure. I'd need to look at the deBock role to see if it does both. Or do we want our roles to do both?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:28:20

@John, we need both, either in one step or in two.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:28:28

it does both

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:29:32

I'd be glad to support the deBock role for the server side. If he has one for the client side, I could support that too.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:29:45

And we need adding and removing exxported dirs.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:30:16

removing?

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:30:33

By support, I mean go along with our publishing and using.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:31:05

Yes, removing. Some point in time you may no longer want to export a dir. So we need a way to reconfigure the NFS

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:31:45

If you're using ansible to do the initial export, you'd most likely be using ansisble to undo the initial export. That makes sense to me

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:31:50

ah, removing the configuration, not the directory

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:32:08

OK, not the configuratrion :-)

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:32:55

I mean, I have one server, and I keep looking at GitOps to manage it just to save me the headache of loggin in to make a change or spin up a new podman pod

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:34:00

okay, I'll setup the two roles and compare pros and cons

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:34:06

What is the next step? Emmanuel would need to complete the block contribution, and John would need to see whether deBock can be used for our purposes/his previous work and simplify things for us. I estimate that we will need at least 14 days for the upcoming work steps. Or perhaps longer?

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:34:52

14 days sounds about right

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:35:42

14 days should work for me.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:36:03

Emmanuel Seyman: A comparison would be even better. (And a proposal how to implement it.)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:40:22

John Himpel: are you still typing (says meetbot)

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:40:34

Not that I know

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:40:56

OK, meetbot false info here.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:40:59

OK, so let's plan for 14 days with the goal of then coming up with a more detailed plan on how we want to implement this.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:41:27

Proposed !Agreed: In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:42:38

agreed

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:43:22

John Himpel: ?

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:43:25

Question: How does the group feel about using containers? Ansible (a part of RedHat) is suggesting putting ansible/roles/collections/etc inside a container for execution

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:43:59

Well., containers is immutable Server

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:44:12

I can finish polishing my efforts and document a distribution and execution methodology.

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:44:13

I woudln't be opposed to containers.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:44:31

We are for the Pets, i.e. containers are an option, but standard services are dnf installs.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:44:58

Jocelyn (she/her): ++1

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

17:45:00

pboy has already given cookies to korora during the F42 timeframe

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:45:27

Jocelyn (she/her): 1+

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:45:31

Containers can run in immutable Server or in a legacy server. The Desktop Group is staring a push to put all apps in either containers or flatpaks.

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:46:01

Can you have the code execute in a container and run the actions on the host? (i,e, playbook is run from a container, but the server is configured when done)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:46:28

John Himpel: Yes, but that is CoreOS. We are the option to install natively.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:47:25

I thought containers was docker/podman/lxc, not so much immutable stuff

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:47:42

The immutable stuff is OCI containers

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:48:09

Emmanuel Seyman: yes, but containers are their only and standard way to offer services.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

17:48:10

Jocelyn (she/her): yes, that sounds quite possible

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:48:27

RHEL is already transitioned to immutable. It probably is only a matter of time before they try to move Fedora in that direction. Containers is docker/podman/lxd/etc.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:49:12

Jocelyn (she/her): That is currently possible.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:49:45

John Himpel: RH is currently running on two tracks.

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:50:13

From a server standpoint, an immutable base sounds rock solid. If I had the brain power I'd probaby containerize even my local NFS/SMB servers. I think that's the only two services I've naitively installed on the F42 install on my server

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

17:50:59

Peter Boy: I thought the RHEL version just released was immutable only. But then I could be wrong.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:52:03

John Himpel: as I far as I know that is not the case.

<@jspaleta:fedora.im>

17:52:49

Note to self, play with SMB as a quadlet based service

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:53:37

I've not figured out quadlets yet either (too much going on. LOL)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:54:19

Nevertheless, if you provide all services as a container, you need not a package bases Server. These are different use cases.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:54:52

And Folks, we have a PRD

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:55:43

PRD?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:55:53

!link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:56:28

Product Requirement Document (PRD)

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:56:39

!link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/docs/product-requirements-document/

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:56:54

Technical Specification

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:57:04

!link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/docs/server-technical-specification/

<@korora:fedora.im>

17:57:04

Got it.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:57:51

Fedora Server is an Edition. That means, there is a specifically tailored product. We can't change it at any time just as we like.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

17:58:17

It is a kind of branding with a specific goal and implementation.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:00:29

Of course, part of the offering is to put something in a container, And programmatically, we support podman (ofcourse), systemd spawn and libvrt LXC. Out usere decide what to use. We offer the freedom, not a predefined way.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:01:11

Of course, part of the offering is to put something in a container, And programmatically, we support podman (ofcourse), systemd spawn and libvrt LXC. Our users decide what to use. We offer the freedom, not a predefined and optimized at some criteria way.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:01:44

any chance we can talk quickly about a Test day?

<@bookwar:fedora.im>

18:02:13

RHEL 10 still exists as a regular rpm-based distro

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:02:33

Yeah, lets interrupt here. And probably continue on Matrix of Mailing list.

<@jwhimpel:fedora.im>

18:03:02

bookwar: Thx for the correction

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:03:07

Lets move to open floor and discuss the test day.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:03:20

!topic 4. Open Floor

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:03:43

Regarding test day, I think we need a team, which makes a plan.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:04:03

@Emmanuel: both us us?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:04:44

Or is there someone out here who would like to take it and make a roadmap?

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:04:57

I guess so although I'm pretty swamped right now

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:05:15

Yeah, same with me.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:05:37

anyway, Adam wasn't at Flock, to my knowledge so we didn't get to talk about having a Server test day

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:05:52

I still think it's a good idea, though

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:06:04

Yes, indeed !!!!!!!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:06:32

I could make an initial proposal over the weekend and send it to you to complete and correct it.

<@korora:fedora.im>

18:06:42

Do we still need to discuss the changes to Anaconda?

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:07:24

Jocelyn (she/her): I think we have to postpone to next week, unfortunately. It's urgent. But our time is up.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:07:57

Proposed !agg

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:08:30

I suspect it can wait until next week

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:08:43

Proposed !ageed: Emmamnuel and Peter write a Roadmap about creating a test day/week

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:09:13

Yeah, I'll have a look. Indeed, maybe we are already too late for F43.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:09:50

I see no objection.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:09:59

!ageed: Emmamnuel and Peter write a Roadmap about creating a test day/week

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:10:15

grrrrrr

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:10:28

!agreed Emmamnuel and Peter write a Roadmap about creating a test day/week

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:11:10

And from earlier

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:11:15

!Agreed: In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:11:32

!agreed: In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:12:02

Zodbot is lame today, and I hav e too many typos.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:12:17

!agreed In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details.

<@eseyman:fedora.im>

18:12:59

I'm going to have to leave very soon

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:13:43

OK, we're done for today too.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:14:06

See everyone next week, or on Matrix, or on Mailing list.

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:14:14

Bye !!!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:14:38

And many thanks for coming !!!!!

<@pboy:fedora.im>

18:14:56

!endmeeting