2025-06-18 17:00:21 <@pboy:fedora.im> !startmeeting fedora-server  
2025-06-18 17:00:23 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-06-18 17:00:21 UTC
2025-06-18 17:00:23 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'fedora-server '
2025-06-18 17:00:29 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Welcome / roll call
2025-06-18 17:00:34 <@eseyman:fedora.im> !hello
2025-06-18 17:00:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> I'll post the agenda in 2-3 minutes.
2025-06-18 17:00:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> As usual, let's wait a moment  for everybody to show up.
2025-06-18 17:00:40 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman (eseyman) - he / him / his
2025-06-18 17:00:51 <@korora:fedora.im> !hello
2025-06-18 17:00:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Jocelyn Gould (korora) - she / her / hers
2025-06-18 17:01:37 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> !hi
2025-06-18 17:01:42 <@zodbot:fedora.im> John Himpel (jwhimpel)
2025-06-18 17:02:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> Oh, we arfe quick today. Less then 2 mins and we have our quorum.
2025-06-18 17:02:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> Welcome everybody.
2025-06-18 17:02:52 <@eseyman:fedora.im> hello, all!
2025-06-18 17:03:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> Oh, we are quick today. Less then 2 mins and we have our quorum.
2025-06-18 17:03:35 <@pboy:fedora.im> We should pick up the opportunity and start.
2025-06-18 17:03:49 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2025-06-18 17:04:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Open Floor
2025-06-18 17:04:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Follow-up actions & announcements
2025-06-18 17:04:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Server requirements for the upcoming updated version of Anaconda
2025-06-18 17:04:00 <@pboy:fedora.im> !info  Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service
2025-06-18 17:04:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> Anything to add?  or to remove? 
2025-06-18 17:04:46 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK. Let's start
2025-06-18 17:04:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 1. Follow-up actions & announcements
2025-06-18 17:05:09 <@pboy:fedora.im> Regarding the action, nothing new. See
2025-06-18 17:05:09 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/wg-minutes-2025/
2025-06-18 17:05:23 <@pboy:fedora.im> According to our voting we have 2 new members:
2025-06-18 17:05:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/161
2025-06-18 17:05:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn  +7 / +-0 / -0
2025-06-18 17:05:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/162
2025-06-18 17:05:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> Paul     +6 / +-0 / -0
2025-06-18 17:05:47 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Welcome, both of you!
2025-06-18 17:05:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> Congratulations and now also officially, a very warm welcome!
2025-06-18 17:06:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> I am very pleased about this positive development.
2025-06-18 17:07:17 <@pboy:fedora.im> A follow-up to Flock? 
2025-06-18 17:07:25 <@pboy:fedora.im> Thanks to Emmanuel for the recap.
2025-06-18 17:08:00 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I'm sorry to have missed Emmanuel's recap.  Is there a URL?
2025-06-18 17:08:57 <@eseyman:fedora.im> https://blogs.fedora-fr.org/ is back up so I'll be posting there tonight and it will go to the planet
2025-06-18 17:09:09 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I'm sure the list archives should have a copy
2025-06-18 17:09:34 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: Thx
2025-06-18 17:09:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> I had another conversation with Nirik about our distribution media. I think I already wrote about that. as an answer.
2025-06-18 17:09:52 <@korora:fedora.im>  https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/TD7BLGL2PX2LYDQVSPCALVXK5TJMUJE3/
2025-06-18 17:10:14 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Thank you, Jocelyn (she/her) 
2025-06-18 17:10:42 <@pboy:fedora.im> Then I had an influenza attack and was out of action. for several days.
2025-06-18 17:11:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> So i couldn't inform about another  conversation with Stephen about an idea to supplement Ansible with a Cockpit-based installation of selected services. Maybe also as a web frontend for our Ansible playbooks. 
2025-06-18 17:11:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> We could get some support from the Cockpit team for such a pilot project. 
2025-06-18 17:12:57 <@pboy:fedora.im> Any additional comment?
2025-06-18 17:13:35 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I do want to give them a recap of the survey results that impact them
2025-06-18 17:13:51 <@korora:fedora.im> I've not had a chance to even start playing with the ansible playbooks in the copr.  (I still don't understand enough about ansible yet)
2025-06-18 17:14:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: yeah, we should spent some effort into a completion of our survey and then write an Fedora Magazine article.
2025-06-18 17:14:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her): Welcome in the club  :-)  (same for me)
2025-06-18 17:16:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, let's go forward.
2025-06-18 17:16:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 2.   Ansible assisted installation and configuration of NFS service 
2025-06-18 17:16:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/issue/138
2025-06-18 17:16:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/ANSAGBZNK4LN72OWJLGCD2AFNSFGPFKW/
2025-06-18 17:16:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/server@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/7KUVM6SC5A4SQWP4QMFFRWRNNP6F6AUV/
2025-06-18 17:16:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/fedora-server/c/5647c4d701ab3d2b0cc95806bba3d4f2c5fbc162?branch=stg
2025-06-18 17:16:56 <@korora:fedora.im> I jumped ahead... LOL  This is what I've not gotten a chance to even think about yet. 
2025-06-18 17:16:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: and Emmanuel Seyman : your turn  :-)
2025-06-18 17:18:06 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I'm awaiting Emmanuel's publishing his work.  Then we can discuss the difference and decide on a way forward.
2025-06-18 17:18:41 <@eseyman:fedora.im> John Himpel: publishing what, exactly
2025-06-18 17:18:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> My latest status: We wanted to find/demonstrate a way to merge John's work, especially his configuration, with the standard scripts from deBook.
2025-06-18 17:19:07 <@pboy:fedora.im> My latest status: We wanted to find/demonstrate a way to merge John's work, especially his configuration, with the standard scripts from deBock.
2025-06-18 17:20:07 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Peter Boy: I told you I would write a blog article on how to enable the copr and use the roles provided by the rpms. That's still being worked on
2025-06-18 17:20:49 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I've been quite busy and distracted lately, so if I have missed seeing the proposed DeBock/Seyman roles, I apologize.  
2025-06-18 17:21:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: Yeah, and based on that we wanted combine this wir John's, specifically all the Server related configs. Or do I remeber wrong? 
2025-06-18 17:22:40 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I need to clean up a couple of things (especially the README.md) and then republish to our repository.
2025-06-18 17:23:58 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I remember we talked about using rdebock's role server-side and using John's role on the client
2025-06-18 17:24:09 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> We had a discussion of releasing as roles or as collections.  I thought the Flock attendees were going to seek advise from nirik on what he suggested as he maintains a lot of ansible stuff for Fedora.
2025-06-18 17:24:35 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I can concentrate on the client side, if that's what we decide.
2025-06-18 17:25:57 <@eseyman:fedora.im> okay, that sounds like the best path forward
2025-06-18 17:26:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> As I remember, John's work contains a lot of Server Edition specifics. We need that, absolutely, I guess. 
2025-06-18 17:27:01 <@pboy:fedora.im> I had a look at DeBocks scripts. They are elaborate, but a lot of incomplete for Server Edition.
2025-06-18 17:27:26 <@pboy:fedora.im> So, we need John's Server thingies, too. I guess
2025-06-18 17:27:39 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> It did both an install and configure.  I'd need to look at the deBock role to see if it does both.  Or do we want our roles to do both?
2025-06-18 17:28:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> @John, we need both, either in one step or in two.
2025-06-18 17:28:28 <@eseyman:fedora.im> it does both
2025-06-18 17:29:32 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I'd be glad to support the deBock role for the server side.  If he has one for the client side, I could support that too.
2025-06-18 17:29:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> And we need adding and removing exxported dirs.
2025-06-18 17:30:16 <@eseyman:fedora.im> removing?
2025-06-18 17:30:33 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> By support, I mean go along with our publishing and using.
2025-06-18 17:31:05 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, removing. Some point in time you may no longer want to export a dir. So we need a way to reconfigure the NFS
2025-06-18 17:31:45 <@korora:fedora.im> If you're using ansible to do the initial export, you'd most likely be using ansisble to undo the initial export. That makes sense to me
2025-06-18 17:31:50 <@eseyman:fedora.im> ah, removing the configuration, not the directory
2025-06-18 17:32:08 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, not the configuratrion   :-)
2025-06-18 17:32:55 <@korora:fedora.im> I mean, I have one server, and I keep looking at GitOps to manage it just to save me the headache of loggin in to make a change or spin up a new podman pod
2025-06-18 17:34:00 <@eseyman:fedora.im> okay, I'll setup the two roles and compare pros and cons
2025-06-18 17:34:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> What is the next step? Emmanuel would need to complete the block contribution, and John would need to see whether deBock can be used for our purposes/his previous work and simplify things for us. I estimate that we will need at least 14 days for the upcoming work steps. Or perhaps longer?
2025-06-18 17:34:52 <@eseyman:fedora.im> 14 days sounds about right
2025-06-18 17:35:42 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> 14 days should work for me.
2025-06-18 17:36:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: A comparison would be even better. (And a proposal how to implement it.)
2025-06-18 17:40:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: are you still typing (says meetbot)
2025-06-18 17:40:34 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Not that I know
2025-06-18 17:40:56 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, meetbot false info here.
2025-06-18 17:40:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, so let's plan for 14 days with the goal of then coming up with a more detailed plan on how we want to implement this. 
2025-06-18 17:41:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> Proposed !Agreed: In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details. 
2025-06-18 17:42:38 <@eseyman:fedora.im> agreed
2025-06-18 17:43:22 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: ?
2025-06-18 17:43:25 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Question: How does the group feel about using containers?  Ansible (a part of RedHat) is suggesting putting ansible/roles/collections/etc inside a container for execution
2025-06-18 17:43:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> Well., containers is immutable Server
2025-06-18 17:44:12 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> I can finish polishing my efforts and document a distribution and execution methodology.
2025-06-18 17:44:13 <@korora:fedora.im> I woudln't be opposed to containers. 
2025-06-18 17:44:31 <@pboy:fedora.im> We are for the Pets, i.e. containers are an option, but standard services are dnf installs.
2025-06-18 17:44:58 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her): ++1
2025-06-18 17:45:00 <@zodbot:fedora.im> pboy has already given cookies to korora during the F42 timeframe
2025-06-18 17:45:27 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her): 1+ 
2025-06-18 17:45:31 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Containers can run in immutable Server or in a legacy server.  The Desktop Group is staring a push to put all apps in either containers or flatpaks.
2025-06-18 17:46:01 <@korora:fedora.im> Can you have the code execute in a container and run the actions on the host?  (i,e, playbook is run from a container, but the server is configured when done)
2025-06-18 17:46:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: Yes, but that is CoreOS. We are the option to install natively.
2025-06-18 17:47:25 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I thought containers was docker/podman/lxc, not so much immutable stuff
2025-06-18 17:47:42 <@korora:fedora.im> The immutable stuff is OCI containers
2025-06-18 17:48:09 <@pboy:fedora.im> Emmanuel Seyman: yes, but containers are their only and standard way to offer services.  
2025-06-18 17:48:10 <@eseyman:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her): yes, that sounds quite possible
2025-06-18 17:48:27 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> RHEL is already transitioned  to immutable.  It probably is only a matter of time before they try to move Fedora in that direction.  Containers is docker/podman/lxd/etc.
2025-06-18 17:49:12 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her): That is currently possible.
2025-06-18 17:49:45 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: RH is currently running on two tracks.
2025-06-18 17:50:13 <@korora:fedora.im> From a server standpoint, an immutable base sounds rock solid.  If I had the brain power I'd probaby containerize even my local NFS/SMB servers.  I think that's the only two services I've naitively installed on the F42 install on my server
2025-06-18 17:50:59 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> Peter Boy: I thought the RHEL version just released was immutable only.  But then I could be wrong.
2025-06-18 17:52:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> John Himpel: as I far as I know that is not the case.
2025-06-18 17:52:49 <@jspaleta:fedora.im> Note to self, play with SMB as a quadlet based service 
2025-06-18 17:53:37 <@korora:fedora.im> I've not figured out quadlets yet either (too much going on. LOL)
2025-06-18 17:54:19 <@pboy:fedora.im> Nevertheless, if you provide all services as a container, you need not a package bases Server. These are different use cases.
2025-06-18 17:54:52 <@pboy:fedora.im> And Folks, we have a PRD
2025-06-18 17:55:43 <@korora:fedora.im> PRD?
2025-06-18 17:55:53 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/
2025-06-18 17:56:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> Product Requirement Document (PRD)
2025-06-18 17:56:39 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/docs/product-requirements-document/ 
2025-06-18 17:56:54 <@pboy:fedora.im> Technical Specification
2025-06-18 17:57:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> !link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/server-working-group/docs/server-technical-specification/ 
2025-06-18 17:57:04 <@korora:fedora.im> Got it.
2025-06-18 17:57:51 <@pboy:fedora.im> Fedora Server is an Edition. That means, there is a specifically tailored product. We can't change it at any time just as we like.
2025-06-18 17:58:17 <@pboy:fedora.im> It is a kind of branding with a specific goal and implementation.
2025-06-18 18:00:29 <@pboy:fedora.im> Of course, part of the offering is to put something in a container, And programmatically, we support podman (ofcourse), systemd spawn and libvrt LXC. Out usere decide what to use. We offer the freedom, not a predefined way. 
2025-06-18 18:01:11 <@pboy:fedora.im> Of course, part of the offering is to put something in a container, And programmatically, we support podman (ofcourse), systemd spawn and libvrt LXC. Our users decide what to use. We offer the freedom, not a predefined and optimized at some criteria way. 
2025-06-18 18:01:44 <@eseyman:fedora.im> any chance we can talk quickly about a Test day?
2025-06-18 18:02:13 <@bookwar:fedora.im> RHEL 10 still exists as a regular rpm-based distro
2025-06-18 18:02:33 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, lets interrupt here. And probably continue on Matrix of Mailing list.
2025-06-18 18:03:02 <@jwhimpel:fedora.im> bookwar: Thx for the correction
2025-06-18 18:03:07 <@pboy:fedora.im> Lets move to open floor and discuss the test day. 
2025-06-18 18:03:20 <@pboy:fedora.im> !topic 4. Open Floor 
2025-06-18 18:03:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> Regarding test day, I think we need a team, which makes a plan.
2025-06-18 18:04:03 <@pboy:fedora.im> @Emmanuel: both us us? 
2025-06-18 18:04:44 <@pboy:fedora.im> Or is there someone out here who would like to take it and make a roadmap? 
2025-06-18 18:04:57 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I guess so although I'm pretty swamped right now
2025-06-18 18:05:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, same with me. 
2025-06-18 18:05:37 <@eseyman:fedora.im> anyway, Adam wasn't at Flock, to my knowledge so we didn't get to talk about having a Server test day
2025-06-18 18:05:52 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I still think it's a good idea, though
2025-06-18 18:06:04 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yes, indeed !!!!!!!
2025-06-18 18:06:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> I could make an initial proposal over the weekend and send it to you to complete and correct it.
2025-06-18 18:06:42 <@korora:fedora.im> Do we still need to discuss the changes to Anaconda?
2025-06-18 18:07:24 <@pboy:fedora.im> Jocelyn (she/her): I think we have to postpone to next week, unfortunately. It's urgent. But our time is up.
2025-06-18 18:07:57 <@pboy:fedora.im> Proposed  !agg
2025-06-18 18:08:30 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I suspect it can wait until next week
2025-06-18 18:08:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> Proposed  !ageed: Emmamnuel and Peter write a Roadmap about creating a test day/week
2025-06-18 18:09:13 <@pboy:fedora.im> Yeah, I'll have a look. Indeed, maybe we are already too late for F43.
2025-06-18 18:09:50 <@pboy:fedora.im> I see no objection.
2025-06-18 18:09:59 <@pboy:fedora.im> !ageed: Emmamnuel and Peter write a Roadmap about creating a test day/week 
2025-06-18 18:10:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> grrrrrr
2025-06-18 18:10:28 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed   Emmamnuel and Peter write a Roadmap about creating a test day/week 
2025-06-18 18:11:10 <@pboy:fedora.im> And from earlier
2025-06-18 18:11:15 <@pboy:fedora.im> !Agreed: In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details. 
2025-06-18 18:11:32 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed: In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details. 
2025-06-18 18:12:02 <@pboy:fedora.im> Zodbot is lame today, and I hav e too many typos.
2025-06-18 18:12:17 <@pboy:fedora.im> !agreed  In about 14 days, Emmanuel and John will come up with a plan about implementation details.
2025-06-18 18:12:59 <@eseyman:fedora.im> I'm going to have to leave very soon
2025-06-18 18:13:43 <@pboy:fedora.im> OK, we're done for today too.
2025-06-18 18:14:06 <@pboy:fedora.im> See everyone next week, or on Matrix, or on Mailing list.
2025-06-18 18:14:14 <@pboy:fedora.im> Bye !!!
2025-06-18 18:14:38 <@pboy:fedora.im> And many thanks for coming !!!!!
2025-06-18 18:14:56 <@pboy:fedora.im> !endmeeting