<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:01:07
!startmeeting FESCO (2025-07-15)
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:01:08
Meeting started at 2025-07-15 17:01:07 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:01:09
The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2025-07-15)'
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:01:12
!meetingname fesco
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
17:01:13
The Meeting Name is now fesco
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:01:17
!group members fesco
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:19
Members of fesco: David Cantrell, Fabio Valentini, Fabio Alessandro Locati, Tomáš Hrčka, Kevin Fenzi, Matthew Miller, ngompa (@conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @pharaoh_atem:opensuse.org, @ngompa:kde.org, @ngompa:almalinux.im), Michel Lind, Stephen Gallagher, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:01:21
!topic Init Process
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:01:24
!hi
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:01:24
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:25
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:27
Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:01:29
morning
<@fale:fale.io>
17:01:31
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:33
Fabio Alessandro Locati (fale) - he / him / his
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:01:37
sorry for running a bit behind today folks
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:01:56
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:01:57
Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:02:20
I'm available for an hour, then I have a meeting. Judging by the agenda, that's probably academic, but I figured I'd mention it.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:03:02
Stephen Gallagher: don't underestimate our tenacity on trivial topics
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:04:04
yeah, hopefully this will be the shortest meeting I chair :P
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:04:05
zbyszek: I'm *very* tempted to find a grammar peculiarity in that sentence to go on a tangent about now ;-)
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:04:43
you ain't gonna go suspecting my grammar now no?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:05:28
ain't gonna be no aspersion cast on grammaticality today!
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:05:38
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:05:41
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:05:47
do we have a split ... ah, Neal is here
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:06:10
so we have 6 people so far
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:06:17
let's wait a few mins more then we can start
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:06:27
deferred sandwich-making to graciously announce my existence
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:07:19
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:07:20
Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) - he / him / his
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:07:22
sorry for being late
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:07:43
who's missing - dcantrell and jednorozec I think
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:08:17
we can start in a minute - the only item really is https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3437 so good time to skim it and get up to date
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:09:24
!topic #3437 Draft of Formalized Spins and Labs Keepalive Process
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:09:27
!fesco 3437
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:09:29
● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:09:29
● **Last Updated:** a day ago
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:09:29
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:09:29
● **Opened:** 6 days ago by amoloney
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:09:29
**fesco #3437** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3437):**Draft of Formalised Spins and Labs Keepalive Process - Feedback and Discussion welcome**
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:09:56
(keeping the discussion in the ticket is fine too, but since we have a ... very light agenda, we might as well discuss this synchronously)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:10:32
I think the "ensure that all necessary artifacts for the Spin or Lab are built, tested, and made available for download on release day." definitely needs changing...
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:10:41
I am not sure with what wording off the top of my head
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:11:13
right, seems like we need enough time to update the website, as mentioned in the ticket
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:11:34
Well, the biggest problem with that is that they aren't blocking
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:11:36
Stephen Gallagher: suggested making the website more modular, which makes sense
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:12:02
I think the websites actually do have ways to handle this... but I haven't looked/asked
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:12:29
Codifying that as a requirement for the Websites team is still probably valuable
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:12:35
So it doesn't get lost on the next major redesign
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:13:14
would it make sense to basically have a two-step process? ok, spin is alive, but until they produce an artifact in time, before we go Gold we refresh the list of spins and they might get dropped
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:13:38
well, there's a difference between dropped and just didn't compose at the end
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:14:22
right ... if there are just compose issues I am not sure if we should exclude them temporarily or just mark them as temporarily having issues
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:14:24
probably the latter
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:14:42
compose issues are a separate case, I think
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:14:43
Do we know what is the purpose of this text? If it's just an internal FOA procedure, then we shouldn't spend too much time on it. But if it's going to be a published policy, then we'd need to polish it more.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:15:01
we already have a policy thats... less detailed.
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:15:10
so I would think this would be an update to that
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
17:15:24
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Spins/
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:15:26
seems like this is to make it as easy as possible for whoever is running this in Aoife's absence, right?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:15:31
make sure we are doing it consistently
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:15:58
OK, so for that purpose, it seems fine.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:18:20
Yeah, the latter. Because if there was a spin, and it's temporarily missing, then users are likely to be confused if they go looking for it.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:19:19
yeah, I think we can continue there and not hash this out in meeting - just wanted to bring it up for awareness
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:19:47
unless anyone has anything to add, we can go to open floor (I want to double check one of the tickets I marked as done, but otherwise have no other topic)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:20:02
or rather, we can pick the next chair then open floor (I keep forgetting that part)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:21:28
!topic Next week's chair
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:21:49
do we have enough people around next week?
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:22:31
I'll be here as far as I know.
<@decathorpe:fedora.im>
17:22:59
me too
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:23:12
so we do have quorum, at least 5 people
<@humaton:fedora.im>
17:23:14
soory I am late
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:23:32
jednorozec: you came just in time, we just voted you as next week's chair
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:23:33
jk
<@humaton:fedora.im>
17:24:04
:)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:24:37
ok, more seriously, who wants to chair?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:25:36
OK, if nobody wants to, I can do it.
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:25:52
fale has already given cookies to zbyszek during the F42 timeframe
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:26:31
salimma has already given cookies to zbyszek during the F42 timeframe
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:26:41
thanks zbyszek!
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:26:42
that brings us to
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:26:45
!topic Open floor
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:26:55
I have a question…
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:27:04
zbyszek: go for it
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:27:34
We had a workshop during Flock about scriptlet removal and in the session we identified about a dozen different scriptlet types to be cleaned up.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:27:52
Some of those would be more involved, some less.
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:28:27
Should I a) just send ad-hoc announcements to fedora-devel, b) file a big Change proposal, c) file smaller Change proposals, d) something else?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:28:54
Doing it without any announcement seems wrong, but I don't want to create too much noise either…
<@fale:fale.io>
17:29:30
(aka option c)
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:29:32
Because each of those changes usually combines some infra work in one package and then adjusting to the new interface in a dozen or more other packages…
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:30:01
maybe b) and c) combined?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:30:36
do one change proposal for reference showing how to do it, and smaller CPs for specialized categories that are either similar to each other or too tricky to deal with in a bigger change
<@sgallagh:fedora.im>
17:30:41
zbyszek: Maybe you and I can collaborate on B), take it to FESCo and if they ask us to break it up... do so?
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:30:52
Stephen Gallagher: that'd work too.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:31:47
happy to help
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:32:19
Great. I have the notes from the session on paper. I keep meaning to put them in a doc somewhere. I'll do that and ping y'all.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
17:32:48
I'd be interested as well
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:33:57
I'm very happy to hear interest. I think there's some nice cleanups to be done.
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
17:34:00
sgallagh has already given cookies to zbyszek during the F42 timeframe
<@zbyszek:fedora.im>
17:34:29
OK, that's all I had.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:35:12
right. I just have this https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3435
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:35:31
it barely passes with +3 (or +4) - just making sure we're all fine with this
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:36:08
from my reading Alex will propose a more general permanent exception for next time, but for this time we already OKed updating F41 and rebasing any affected package that won't rebuild as is
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:37:54
and that's it for me - anyone else has something?
<@fale:fale.io>
17:38:57
yeah, the problem always occurs due to the release cadences, so better having a more permanent conversation and exception
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:39:18
and we can vote for it when it is proposed
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:40:48
this won't be too different from what Rust has, I guess? similar issues
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:42:10
ok ... if nothing else, we can end super early
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:42:34
thanks everyone for attending, and for the discussion!
<@salimma:fedora.im>
17:42:38
!endmeeting