2025-07-15 17:01:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> !startmeeting FESCO (2025-07-15)
2025-07-15 17:01:08 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-07-15 17:01:07 UTC
2025-07-15 17:01:09 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2025-07-15)'
2025-07-15 17:01:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> !meetingname fesco
2025-07-15 17:01:13 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now fesco
2025-07-15 17:01:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> !group members fesco
2025-07-15 17:01:19 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Members of fesco: David Cantrell, Fabio Valentini, Fabio Alessandro Locati, Tomáš Hrčka, Kevin Fenzi, Matthew Miller, ngompa (@conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @pharaoh_atem:opensuse.org, @ngompa:kde.org, @ngompa:almalinux.im), Michel Lind, Stephen Gallagher, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2025-07-15 17:01:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> !topic Init Process
2025-07-15 17:01:24 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !hi
2025-07-15 17:01:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2025-07-15 17:01:25 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)
2025-07-15 17:01:27 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2025-07-15 17:01:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2025-07-15 17:01:31 <@fale:fale.io> !hi
2025-07-15 17:01:33 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fabio Alessandro Locati (fale) - he / him / his
2025-07-15 17:01:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry for running a bit behind today folks
2025-07-15 17:01:56 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2025-07-15 17:01:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2025-07-15 17:02:20 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'm available for an hour, then I have a meeting. Judging by the agenda, that's probably academic, but I figured I'd mention it.
2025-07-15 17:03:02 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher: don't underestimate our tenacity on trivial topics
2025-07-15 17:04:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, hopefully this will be the shortest meeting I chair :P
2025-07-15 17:04:05 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> zbyszek: I'm *very* tempted to find a grammar peculiarity in that sentence to go on a tangent about now ;-)
2025-07-15 17:04:43 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> you ain't gonna go suspecting my grammar now no?
2025-07-15 17:05:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> ain't gonna be no aspersion cast on grammaticality today!
2025-07-15 17:05:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2025-07-15 17:05:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2025-07-15 17:05:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> do we have a split ... ah, Neal is here
2025-07-15 17:06:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> so we have 6 people so far
2025-07-15 17:06:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> let's wait a few mins more then we can start
2025-07-15 17:06:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> deferred sandwich-making to graciously announce my existence
2025-07-15 17:07:19 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> !hi
2025-07-15 17:07:20 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) - he / him / his
2025-07-15 17:07:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> sorry for being late
2025-07-15 17:07:43 <@salimma:fedora.im> who's missing - dcantrell and jednorozec I think
2025-07-15 17:08:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> we can start in a minute - the only item really is https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3437 so good time to skim it and get up to date
2025-07-15 17:09:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> !topic #3437 Draft of Formalized Spins and Labs Keepalive Process
2025-07-15 17:09:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> !fesco 3437
2025-07-15 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2025-07-15 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** a day ago
2025-07-15 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-07-15 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** 6 days ago by amoloney
2025-07-15 17:09:29 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3437** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3437):**Draft of Formalised Spins and Labs Keepalive Process - Feedback and Discussion welcome**
2025-07-15 17:09:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> (keeping the discussion in the ticket is fine too, but since we have a ... very light agenda, we might as well discuss this synchronously)
2025-07-15 17:10:32 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think the "ensure that all necessary artifacts for the Spin or Lab are built, tested, and made available for download on release day." definitely needs changing...
2025-07-15 17:10:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I am not sure with what wording off the top of my head
2025-07-15 17:11:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> right, seems like we need enough time to update the website, as mentioned in the ticket
2025-07-15 17:11:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Well, the biggest problem with that is that they aren't blocking
2025-07-15 17:11:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher: suggested making the website more modular, which makes sense
2025-07-15 17:12:02 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think the websites actually do have ways to handle this... but I haven't looked/asked
2025-07-15 17:12:29 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Codifying that as a requirement for the Websites team is still probably valuable
2025-07-15 17:12:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So it doesn't get lost on the next major redesign
2025-07-15 17:13:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> would it make sense to basically have a two-step process? ok, spin is alive, but until they produce an artifact in time, before we go Gold we refresh the list of spins and they might get dropped
2025-07-15 17:13:38 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, there's a difference between dropped and just didn't compose at the end
2025-07-15 17:14:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> right ... if there are just compose issues I am not sure if we should exclude them temporarily or just mark them as temporarily having issues
2025-07-15 17:14:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> probably the latter
2025-07-15 17:14:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> compose issues are a separate case, I think
2025-07-15 17:14:43 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Do we know what is the purpose of this text? If it's just an internal FOA procedure, then we shouldn't spend too much time on it. But if it's going to be a published policy, then we'd need to polish it more.
2025-07-15 17:15:01 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> we already have a policy thats... less detailed.
2025-07-15 17:15:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> so I would think this would be an update to that
2025-07-15 17:15:24 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/Spins/
2025-07-15 17:15:26 <@salimma:fedora.im> seems like this is to make it as easy as possible for whoever is running this in Aoife's absence, right?
2025-07-15 17:15:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> make sure we are doing it consistently
2025-07-15 17:15:58 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, so for that purpose, it seems fine.
2025-07-15 17:18:20 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, the latter. Because if there was a spin, and it's temporarily missing, then users are likely to be confused if they go looking for it. 
2025-07-15 17:19:19 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I think we can continue there and not hash this out in meeting - just wanted to bring it up for awareness
2025-07-15 17:19:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> unless anyone has anything to add, we can go to open floor (I want to double check one of the tickets I marked as done, but otherwise have no other topic)
2025-07-15 17:20:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> or rather, we can pick the next chair then open floor (I keep forgetting that part)
2025-07-15 17:21:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> !topic Next week's chair
2025-07-15 17:21:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> do we have enough people around next week?
2025-07-15 17:22:31 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll be here as far as I know.
2025-07-15 17:22:59 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> me too 
2025-07-15 17:23:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> so we do have quorum, at least 5 people
2025-07-15 17:23:14 <@humaton:fedora.im> soory I am late
2025-07-15 17:23:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> jednorozec: you came just in time, we just voted you as next week's chair
2025-07-15 17:23:33 <@salimma:fedora.im> jk
2025-07-15 17:24:04 <@humaton:fedora.im> :)
2025-07-15 17:24:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> ok, more seriously, who wants to chair?
2025-07-15 17:25:36 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, if nobody wants to, I can do it.
2025-07-15 17:25:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> fale has already given cookies to zbyszek during the F42 timeframe
2025-07-15 17:26:31 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma has already given cookies to zbyszek during the F42 timeframe
2025-07-15 17:26:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> thanks zbyszek!
2025-07-15 17:26:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> that brings us to
2025-07-15 17:26:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2025-07-15 17:26:55 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I have a question…
2025-07-15 17:27:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> zbyszek: go for it
2025-07-15 17:27:34 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> We had a workshop during Flock about scriptlet removal and in the session we identified about a dozen different scriptlet types to be cleaned up.
2025-07-15 17:27:52 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Some of those would be more involved, some less.
2025-07-15 17:28:27 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Should I a) just send ad-hoc announcements to fedora-devel, b) file a big Change proposal, c) file smaller Change proposals, d) something else?
2025-07-15 17:28:54 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Doing it without any announcement seems wrong, but I don't want to  create too much noise either…
2025-07-15 17:29:30 <@fale:fale.io> (aka option c)
2025-07-15 17:29:32 <@zbyszek:fedora.im>  Because each of those changes usually combines some infra work in one package and then adjusting to the new interface in a dozen or more other packages…
2025-07-15 17:30:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> maybe b) and c) combined?
2025-07-15 17:30:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> do one change proposal for reference showing how to do it, and smaller CPs for specialized categories that are either similar to each other or too tricky to deal with in a bigger change
2025-07-15 17:30:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> zbyszek: Maybe you and I can collaborate on B), take it to FESCo and if they ask us to break it up... do so?
2025-07-15 17:30:52 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher: that'd work too.
2025-07-15 17:31:47 <@salimma:fedora.im> happy to help
2025-07-15 17:32:19 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Great. I have the notes from the session on paper. I keep meaning to put them in a doc somewhere. I'll do that and ping y'all.
2025-07-15 17:32:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I'd be interested as well
2025-07-15 17:33:57 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I'm very happy to hear interest. I think there's some nice cleanups to be done.
2025-07-15 17:34:00 <@zodbot:fedora.im> sgallagh has already given cookies to zbyszek during the F42 timeframe
2025-07-15 17:34:29 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> OK, that's all I had.
2025-07-15 17:35:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> right. I just have this https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3435
2025-07-15 17:35:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> it barely passes with +3 (or +4) - just making sure we're all fine with this
2025-07-15 17:36:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> from my reading Alex will propose a more general permanent exception for next time, but for this time we already OKed updating F41 and rebasing any affected package that won't rebuild as is
2025-07-15 17:37:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> and that's it for me - anyone else has something?
2025-07-15 17:38:57 <@fale:fale.io> yeah, the problem always occurs due to the release cadences, so better having a more permanent conversation and exception
2025-07-15 17:39:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> and we can vote for it when it is proposed
2025-07-15 17:40:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> this won't be too different from what Rust has, I guess? similar issues
2025-07-15 17:42:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> ok ... if nothing else, we can end super early
2025-07-15 17:42:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> thanks everyone for attending, and for the discussion!
2025-07-15 17:42:38 <@salimma:fedora.im> !endmeeting