2025-12-02 16:59:54 <@fale:fale.io> !startmeeting FESCO (2025-12-02)
2025-12-02 16:59:58 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-12-02 16:59:54 UTC
2025-12-02 16:59:58 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'FESCO (2025-12-02)'
2025-12-02 17:00:00 <@fale:fale.io> !meetingname fesco
2025-12-02 17:00:03 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now fesco
2025-12-02 17:00:05 <@fale:fale.io> !group members fesco
2025-12-02 17:00:08 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Members of fesco: Dave Cantrell, Fabio Valentini, Fabio Alessandro Locati, Tomáš Hrčka, Jef Spaleta, Kevin Fenzi, ngompa (@conan_kudo:matrix.org, @ngompa:fedora.im, @pharaoh_atem:opensuse.org, @ngompa:kde.org, @ngompa:almalinux.im), salimma (@michel-slm:matrix.org, @salimma:fedora.im), Stephen Gallagher, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2025-12-02 17:00:09 <@fale:fale.io> !topic Init Process
2025-12-02 17:00:10 <@fale:fale.io> !hi
2025-12-02 17:00:15 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fabio Alessandro Locati (fale) - he / him / his
2025-12-02 17:01:55 <@humaton:fedora.im> !hi
2025-12-02 17:01:57 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> !hi
2025-12-02 17:01:57 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Tomáš Hrčka (humaton) - he / him / his
2025-12-02 17:01:58 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbyszek)
2025-12-02 17:02:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> morning
2025-12-02 17:02:16 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> !hi
2025-12-02 17:02:17 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Kevin Fenzi (kevin) - he / him / his
2025-12-02 17:02:32 <@fale:fale.io> Still 1 missing for quorum
2025-12-02 17:02:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2025-12-02 17:02:54 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2025-12-02 17:02:57 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry, was in a private chat
2025-12-02 17:03:25 <@fale:fale.io> We have quorum 🙂. Let's wait a couple of minutes to see if other will arrive otherwise we start
2025-12-02 17:03:34 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> !hi
2025-12-02 17:03:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Fabio Valentini (decathorpe) - he / him / his
2025-12-02 17:03:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2025-12-02 17:03:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2025-12-02 17:05:45 <@fale:fale.io> !topic #3512 Let's do something about ignored CVE bugs
2025-12-02 17:05:50 <@fale:fale.io> !fesco 3512
2025-12-02 17:05:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by catanzaro
2025-12-02 17:05:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-12-02 17:05:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3512** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3512):**Let's do something about ignored CVE bugs**
2025-12-02 17:05:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 5 hours ago
2025-12-02 17:05:52 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2025-12-02 17:06:20 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Let the fun begin!
2025-12-02 17:06:31 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think this might benifit from a wider discussion... but I probibly always say that
2025-12-02 17:06:49 <@fale:fale.io> We discussed about this last week and would make sense to see if we want to weight in or wait for the conversation to continue in the discussion forum
2025-12-02 17:07:22 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> was there a discussion thread on it? I thought it was just in the ticket
2025-12-02 17:07:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> I missed the follow up (was dealing with people at home taking turns getting sick) - was a discussion started?
2025-12-02 17:07:36 <@salimma:fedora.im> iirc there's a follow-up action to start such a discussion
2025-12-02 17:07:38 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I closed the firefox bugs.
2025-12-02 17:07:43 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Can we do the same for the kernel?
2025-12-02 17:07:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the wider public discussion just started
2025-12-02 17:08:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> as for the kernel, I thought jforbes (traveling) usually closes them after shipping an update
2025-12-02 17:08:14 <@salimma:fedora.im> if someone has it, adding the link here would be useful for the meeting logs
2025-12-02 17:08:16 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I don't think we should. We could ask kernel maintainers about it I guess...
2025-12-02 17:09:12 <@salimma:fedora.im> also fyi, the dashboard we discussed last week is now offline pending review, but the source is out
2025-12-02 17:09:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> oh I mixed up threads
2025-12-02 17:09:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> so it's looking much better
2025-12-02 17:09:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the thread pushed was about elections not this
2025-12-02 17:09:31 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yep, and the council ticket has been created.
2025-12-02 17:09:32 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think we need to get a handle on fixing the input data before we try and clean up things, or else it will just go back to the same state after a while
2025-12-02 17:09:40 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we probably need to make a thread about this, but I'd like ProdSec engaged first
2025-12-02 17:09:44 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Unfortunately we have no reply from the council or FPL yet.
2025-12-02 17:10:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> just fyi, most of the us was out last week for thanksgiving holidays.
2025-12-02 17:10:16 <@salimma:fedora.im> so that about cover this topic, right? we're still in a holding pattern
2025-12-02 17:10:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yep
2025-12-02 17:10:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> (and for the kernel issue specifically Justin will be sporadic until after LPC)
2025-12-02 17:10:53 <@fale:fale.io> yeah, could make sense to give one week additional time, given last week was a slow one
2025-12-02 17:11:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> do we want to discuss it here first before starting the wider discussion? e.g. once we hear from prodsec/council
2025-12-02 17:11:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> I forgot who agreed to take point on this last week
2025-12-02 17:11:45 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Here or in the ticket.
2025-12-02 17:12:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think we should probably continue in the ticket
2025-12-02 17:12:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> simply because it'll be easier to get other stakeholders up to speed
2025-12-02 17:12:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> though Neal seems to be the one who is talking to prodsec :)
2025-12-02 17:12:26 <@fale:fale.io> yeah, ticket might be better
2025-12-02 17:12:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> look man, I don't know how this happens 😅
2025-12-02 17:12:43 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Neal wrote to the site owners, I wrote to the FPL.
2025-12-02 17:13:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> no good deeds go unpunished ;)
2025-12-02 17:14:04 <@fale:fale.io> !action Let's continue the conversation in the ticket for now
2025-12-02 17:14:25 <@fale:fale.io> !topic #3507 FESCo election policy which prioritizes first timers
2025-12-02 17:14:33 <@fale:fale.io> !fesco 3507
2025-12-02 17:14:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by bookwar
2025-12-02 17:14:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2025-12-02 17:14:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 7 hours ago
2025-12-02 17:14:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3507** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3507):**FESCo election policy which prioritizes first timers**
2025-12-02 17:14:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-12-02 17:14:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this discussion was the thread I was referencing earlier
2025-12-02 17:14:46 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> There has been a lot of discussion on this one...
2025-12-02 17:14:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's still ongoing
2025-12-02 17:15:04 <@fale:fale.io> !link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/potential-fesco-election-policy-changes/174967/18
2025-12-02 17:15:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, I have been reading it and mulling over... there's a number of ideas in there.
2025-12-02 17:15:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think we should probably continue to engage and see how that goes
2025-12-02 17:15:19 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1
2025-12-02 17:15:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1
2025-12-02 17:15:27 <@fale:fale.io> +1
2025-12-02 17:15:39 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> ack
2025-12-02 17:15:55 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1 for continuing to engage, right?
2025-12-02 17:15:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> +1
2025-12-02 17:16:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yup
2025-12-02 17:16:15 <@fale:fale.io> !action continue to engage in the discussion on the Discussion forum
2025-12-02 17:16:26 <@fale:fale.io> !topic #3506 Change: BtrfsBootForCloud
2025-12-02 17:16:31 <@fale:fale.io> !fesco 3506
2025-12-02 17:16:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-12-02 17:16:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3506** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3506):**Change: BtrfsBootForCloud**
2025-12-02 17:16:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by alking
2025-12-02 17:16:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** ngompa
2025-12-02 17:16:32 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 5 days ago
2025-12-02 17:16:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ping davdunc 
2025-12-02 17:17:04 <@fale:fale.io> I think we were waiting for David to provide additional use cases
2025-12-02 17:17:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> heh we have a non-fesco vote in the ticket
2025-12-02 17:17:27 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> David is at re:Invent this week
2025-12-02 17:17:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so I don't know if he will be able to make it
2025-12-02 17:17:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> punt till next week?
2025-12-02 17:17:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> postpone if he does not show up?
2025-12-02 17:17:52 <@fale:fale.io> Yeah, makes sense to postpone it to next week
2025-12-02 17:17:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> let's wait a minute or two and see if he shows up
2025-12-02 17:17:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but otherwise yeah
2025-12-02 17:18:34 <@fale:fale.io> I think that even if David shows up, it would be better if the usecases are integrated in the Change proposal, more than explained in a FESCo meeting
2025-12-02 17:18:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> good point
2025-12-02 17:19:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> if he shows up it would be useful to run them by us first for some vetting, but yeah this can be done async and that's easier for David too
2025-12-02 17:20:03 <@fale:fale.io> !action punt for next week
2025-12-02 17:20:06 <@fale:fale.io> !topic #3513 Change: UseKmsconVTConsole
2025-12-02 17:20:11 <@fale:fale.io> !fesco 3513
2025-12-02 17:20:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3513** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3513):**Change: UseKmsconVTConsole**
2025-12-02 17:20:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** jfalempe
2025-12-02 17:20:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** 7 hours ago
2025-12-02 17:20:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by alking
2025-12-02 17:20:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-12-02 17:20:44 <@fale:fale.io> I see that Michel Lind UTC had concerned on this one. Do we want to discuss it or are we all comfortable with direct voting?
2025-12-02 17:20:47 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> one thing that I was confused about here: how is this related to the "use foot cage" or whatever discussion that happened a few months ago? 
2025-12-02 17:20:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this change makes me very nervous
2025-12-02 17:20:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that's the next step after this
2025-12-02 17:21:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this is just the kmscon basic tier
2025-12-02 17:21:19 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> hmm,  ok 🤔
2025-12-02 17:21:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, the next step is going to be the 'fun' one
2025-12-02 17:21:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the fallback "should" scares me a little
2025-12-02 17:21:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but otherwise I am fine with letting it through
2025-12-02 17:21:56 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> nervous because the code is still relatively new and untested? 
2025-12-02 17:22:00 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if it blows up, we can revert it
2025-12-02 17:22:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> this one is fine/nice. Cool to be able to increase font size on the fly, scrollup, use whatever fonts, etc.
2025-12-02 17:22:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> no, that part doesn't bother me, it's the uncertainty about fallbacks that makes me nervous
2025-12-02 17:22:31 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I mean, testing would cover fallback mechanism too ;) 
2025-12-02 17:22:42 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Yeah, it seems to work surprisingly well in the tests I did… I think if it turns out to have problems, we can easily revert or postpone.
2025-12-02 17:22:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> my reason for worry is I don't know how we're going to have automated testing
2025-12-02 17:22:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> because we're going to need it
2025-12-02 17:23:06 <@salimma:fedora.im> one sec
2025-12-02 17:23:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but yeah my local testing was fine too
2025-12-02 17:23:13 <@fale:fale.io> we definitely need strong testing for this one
2025-12-02 17:23:14 <@humaton:fedora.im> The uncertain fallback is bit strange, but the change will bring some modernity
2025-12-02 17:23:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> in general this looks looks fine, but would probably be great to have this land in rawhide as early as possible 
2025-12-02 17:23:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I've had a machine testing both this and the kwin+konsole variant for a while
2025-12-02 17:23:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's been very cool
2025-12-02 17:23:42 <@salimma:fedora.im> so what scares me is if the systemd unit does not fail, but the console is somehow inoperative
2025-12-02 17:24:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> I'd like to see documented kernel cmdline parameters to disable this that you can add to grub
2025-12-02 17:24:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I want a way to test that failure mode explicitly in automated testing
2025-12-02 17:24:18 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but this is something I expect someone to solve as part of implementing this
2025-12-02 17:24:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> but I probably would be happy to vote to approve provided that is fixed later, the proposer seems responsive to change requests
2025-12-02 17:24:38 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> Adam will probably yell as soon as OpenQA blows up
2025-12-02 17:24:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> same with Neal
2025-12-02 17:25:17 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I hit a selinux issue, but it was promptly fixed...
2025-12-02 17:25:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> otherwise it's been great.
2025-12-02 17:25:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> my worry is that it never does :P
2025-12-02 17:26:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> unless we induce breakage on purpose
2025-12-02 17:26:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we don't have a virtual chaosmonkey in openqa yet
2025-12-02 17:26:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> just only real ones after the fact :P
2025-12-02 17:27:19 <@fale:fale.io> would it make sense to vote the proposal? I'm referring to the people that have not voted in the ticket already
2025-12-02 17:28:01 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I think a vote would be good. AFAIK, there are no open questions, just some apprehensions, so waiting is not going to help.
2025-12-02 17:28:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I'm still +1 (but voted in ticket)
2025-12-02 17:28:36 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> +1 too with what I have learned today ;)
2025-12-02 17:28:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh jfalempe addressed my concerns, so yeah I think the override will be documented
2025-12-02 17:28:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> +1 (I'll also add it in the ticket with a short follow up)
2025-12-02 17:29:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I already voted +1 in the ticket
2025-12-02 17:29:19 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I think we already have the in-ticket votes to pass it
2025-12-02 17:29:47 <@humaton:fedora.im> I dont mind voting in ticket or here +1
2025-12-02 17:30:31 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> pagure.io is 503 for me now :(. But I think I voted in the ticket.
2025-12-02 17:30:34 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> pagure.io loads really slowly for me so just count me as +1
2025-12-02 17:30:38 <@fale:fale.io> Pagure just started to return Service Unavailble errors, but it seems that we are +7,0,-0
2025-12-02 17:30:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh wow what a time for it to get DDOSed agai
2025-12-02 17:31:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh wow what a time for it to get DDOSed again
2025-12-02 17:31:06 <@fale:fale.io> !agreed ACCEPTED (+7, 0, -0)
2025-12-02 17:31:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> I managed to submit my comment fwiw
2025-12-02 17:31:23 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> s/again/still
2025-12-02 17:31:33 <@fale:fale.io> !topic #3515 Change Wrangler tasks done by AI with partly unpredictable outcome
2025-12-02 17:31:39 <@fale:fale.io> !fesco 3515
2025-12-02 17:31:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Assignee:** Not Assigned
2025-12-02 17:31:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Last Updated:** an hour ago
2025-12-02 17:31:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> ● **Opened:** a week ago by py0xc3
2025-12-02 17:31:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> 
2025-12-02 17:31:43 <@zodbot:fedora.im> **fesco #3515** (https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/3515):**Change Wrangler tasks done by AI with partly unpredictable outcome**
2025-12-02 17:32:27 <@fale:fale.io> This conversation today picked up momentum, so not sure if it makes sense to be discussed in this forum already or wait for the conversation to progress in the ticket
2025-12-02 17:32:28 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh fun
2025-12-02 17:32:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah I think we should continue in the ticket
2025-12-02 17:33:02 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> I don't think there's much for us to do. In general, the change wrangler needs to write better automation. Currently this is all still so fragile.
2025-12-02 17:34:03 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> just as always, I have not read any comments made in the last day or so...
2025-12-02 17:34:29 <@fale:fale.io> yes, the lack of actionability on our side is also something I was not too sure about. Might make more sense to be discussed in the Discussion forum rather than FESCo tracker
2025-12-02 17:34:33 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> when in doubt I would have used pandoc, not Claude, for this task 🥲
2025-12-02 17:34:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> Adam brought up exactly that and I +1-ed it
2025-12-02 17:35:25 <@salimma:fedora.im> in general it does bring to mind that... if you can't do something yourself (vs too busy to do something) you probably shouldn't get AI to do it
2025-12-02 17:35:26 <@humaton:fedora.im> Well what we can think/talk about is making the process simpler so it does not require so much automation?
2025-12-02 17:35:54 <@humaton:fedora.im> Or the tools...
2025-12-02 17:35:56 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> jednorozec: I wanted to ask about forgejo status in Open Floor…
2025-12-02 17:36:29 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> let's make Change process PR based! with structured data! everything in XML with XSLT templates! well maybe not the last one ... 
2025-12-02 17:36:36 <@humaton:fedora.im> because the new forge uses wiki in .md format for example...
2025-12-02 17:36:39 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> 'cause I don't think it makes sense to discuss bigger changes right now since pagure is going away.
2025-12-02 17:37:03 <@fale:fale.io> yeah, if we implement a new process needs to be forgejo based
2025-12-02 17:37:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> whatever we do, the end result is that we need relatively static URLs where all changes are collected and featured
2025-12-02 17:37:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and they are presented in a pretty form
2025-12-02 17:37:52 <@humaton:fedora.im> the ticket finally loaded for me and wall of text sooo I dont have much to add 
2025-12-02 17:38:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yay ai
2025-12-02 17:38:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> heh, I think we can all agree that using the Wiki for this process is a bit anachronistic :D
2025-12-02 17:38:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well, I don't mind it :)
2025-12-02 17:38:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it looks nice, it presents instantly
2025-12-02 17:38:48 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> you've done it like 254 times so of course you know what to do ;) 
2025-12-02 17:38:59 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> not quite _that_ many times
2025-12-02 17:39:05 <@humaton:fedora.im> i dont mind wiki but our wiki is complicated to *just publish* a template
2025-12-02 17:39:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but yes
2025-12-02 17:39:23 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> there are rst and md based wiki systems these days too
2025-12-02 17:39:35 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> we could definitely make the process better if we can put time/energy into doing so
2025-12-02 17:40:52 <@humaton:fedora.im> I can explore forgejo wiki which is md based and uses git. And create some PoC from currently opened changes
2025-12-02 17:41:28 <@fale:fale.io> I think we can rediscuss this in the coming weeks after we have more info on possible alternative processes on forgejo
2025-12-02 17:41:54 <@fale:fale.io> !action jednorozec to explore forgejo wiki which is md based and uses git. And create some PoC from currently opened changes
2025-12-02 17:42:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I will take a forge process over more discourse
2025-12-02 17:42:09 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> I'm not sure wiki -> wiki is a good thing, I'd rather move to a PR process ... 
2025-12-02 17:42:22 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> but meh 
2025-12-02 17:42:35 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> technically you could do it either way if it was git backed
2025-12-02 17:42:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I personally don't like PRs for this process
2025-12-02 17:42:56 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's kind of annoying based on my experience with ALESCo
2025-12-02 17:43:00 <@humaton:fedora.im> well if its git commit with md file? we will see what I can come up with
2025-12-02 17:43:27 <@fale:fale.io> !topic Next week's chair
2025-12-02 17:43:30 <@fale:fale.io> any takers?
2025-12-02 17:43:49 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I can run next week
2025-12-02 17:43:55 <@fale:fale.io> !action Conan Kudo  will chair next meeting
2025-12-02 17:44:03 <@fale:fale.io> !topic Open Floor
2025-12-02 17:44:09 <@fale:fale.io> any topics?
2025-12-02 17:44:16 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Forgejo status?
2025-12-02 17:44:21 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> does "dinner" count? 
2025-12-02 17:44:35 <@humaton:fedora.im> new landing page https://forge.fedoraproject.org/
2025-12-02 17:44:39 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Fabio: I don't think you want to *discuss* what's for dinner.
2025-12-02 17:44:41 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> +1 to dinner. ;)
2025-12-02 17:44:49 <@humaton:fedora.im> bunch of team already in https://forge.fedoraproject.org/explore/organizations
2025-12-02 17:45:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> where do we file tickets about the forge itself?
2025-12-02 17:45:42 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> ha, the Rust SIG is on the front page! nice.
2025-12-02 17:45:47 <@humaton:fedora.im> are we talking about the forge(our deployment) or forgejo?
2025-12-02 17:45:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2025-12-02 17:45:57 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> both
2025-12-02 17:46:06 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I have specific asks on both levels
2025-12-02 17:46:10 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://forge.fedoraproject.org/forge/forge ?
2025-12-02 17:46:10 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Oh, DEI has a great icon.
2025-12-02 17:46:36 <@fale:fale.io> "Explore all organizations" on the front page is 404
2025-12-02 17:46:41 <@humaton:fedora.im> Well each in respective place. For the deployment https://forge.fedoraproject.org/forge/forge
2025-12-02 17:46:59 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> should probably have s/orgs/organizations/ in the link ... 
2025-12-02 17:47:05 <@fale:fale.io> yeah
2025-12-02 17:47:23 <@humaton:fedora.im> somebody messed up the link :)
2025-12-02 17:47:58 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> *"somebody"*
2025-12-02 17:48:35 <@humaton:fedora.im> I have no idea who did the landing page, but finally its there not the default 20y old landing page :)
2025-12-02 17:48:36 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> What about private issues?
2025-12-02 17:49:01 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I think ryan did that. ;) looks nice.
2025-12-02 17:49:02 <@humaton:fedora.im> So we have a PoC in our fork but that is it
2025-12-02 17:49:04 <@humaton:fedora.im> its PoC
2025-12-02 17:49:19 <@humaton:fedora.im> more work, and upstream cooperation ahead
2025-12-02 17:50:09 <@humaton:fedora.im> You can check the status of things on the project board https://forge.fedoraproject.org/forge/forge/projects/185
2025-12-02 17:50:25 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> might be a good idea to "lead by example" and move at least the docs repo 
2025-12-02 17:50:25 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> should we file an infra ticket about creating a fesco org?
2025-12-02 17:50:54 <@humaton:fedora.im> well we are very late with leading by example :) releng is already using the new forge 
2025-12-02 17:51:00 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> true. other "docs" repos are already there so looks like that all works as it should :) 
2025-12-02 17:51:19 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> sure, we should move when someone has time to do the mirgation (but we should probibly also announce it so people know)
2025-12-02 17:51:27 <@humaton:fedora.im> I am not sure the docs build pipelines are in place for them
2025-12-02 17:51:57 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> oh ... well then maybe not *yet* :( 
2025-12-02 17:52:38 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> at the very least we need to make sure updating the fesco docs works so we can update the members after the election in a few weeks :D
2025-12-02 17:52:41 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Hmm, but are not the docs build pipelines just pulling from a bunch of different repos?
2025-12-02 17:54:24 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah
2025-12-02 17:54:30 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/docs-fp-o/-/merge_requests/32 appears to be the first. ;)
2025-12-02 17:54:52 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> that looks simple enough 
2025-12-02 17:55:18 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> epel and server also are using it
2025-12-02 17:55:19 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> though that's the "stg" branch 
2025-12-02 17:55:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://gitlab.com/search?group_id=15282537&project_id=38671593&repository_ref=prod&scope=blobs&search=forge
2025-12-02 17:55:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> and the forge itself
2025-12-02 17:56:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so what do we do when the forge is down?
2025-12-02 17:56:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I assume we're going to have documented some kind of backup process
2025-12-02 17:56:28 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> what do we do when pagure.io is down?
2025-12-02 17:56:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well that process sucks which is mostly bug you directly :P
2025-12-02 17:56:52 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> well, I mean, thats a pretty general question...
2025-12-02 17:56:53 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't want that to be the process going forward
2025-12-02 17:57:07 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> do you mean down for a short outage, or destroyed by an asteroid or ?
2025-12-02 17:57:08 <@fale:fale.io> we could bother jednorozec instead :D 
2025-12-02 17:57:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and it's a reality we have to endure as AI scrapers keep taking our stuff down
2025-12-02 17:57:18 <@humaton:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: we have daily backups of the forge and set of SOPs to follow for sysadmin-main people 
2025-12-02 17:57:32 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> not planned short outages
2025-12-02 17:57:32 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> anyhow, forge is fully backed up and could be redeployed in any other openshift cluster(s)
2025-12-02 17:57:51 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> destroyed by an asteroid is a scenario in which we're all doomed anyway
2025-12-02 17:58:13 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I assume for the DR you have regular restores testing your backups
2025-12-02 17:58:27 <@humaton:fedora.im> Conan Kudo: My goal is to have the SoP docs in a shape that any member of sysadmin-main will be able to redeploy it from scratch
2025-12-02 17:58:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and that you can restore _outside_ of OpenShift too
2025-12-02 17:58:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> because if your cluster is toast you need a way to bring it up without it
2025-12-02 17:58:43 <@humaton:fedora.im> it will take so me time to get there but we are on track
2025-12-02 17:58:49 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> might make sense to have a forge outage fallback on codeberg.org too 
2025-12-02 17:58:49 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> for status.fp.o that's on GitHub ... https://github.com/fedora-infra/statusfpo
2025-12-02 17:58:56 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> That would be more work I suspect, but yes, all the data would work wherever
2025-12-02 17:59:33 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> The current site has been redeployed from backups a number of times during the initial setup. ;)
2025-12-02 17:59:36 <@fale:fale.io> forgejo should be 1 binary + DB, so it shoul dbe spinnable on a non-conatiner platform fairly easily
2025-12-02 17:59:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> just saying, we should be able to prove that hypothesis :)
2025-12-02 18:00:07 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> you'd be surprised how hairy things get in an emergency :P
2025-12-02 18:00:17 <@humaton:fedora.im> its not 1 binary and DB in prod deployment
2025-12-02 18:00:27 <@humaton:fedora.im> there is cache there are proxies there is stuff
2025-12-02 18:00:37 <@fale:fale.io> yeah, that is also true
2025-12-02 18:00:55 <@humaton:fedora.im> its rather complex deployment but its declarative in helm chart
2025-12-02 18:01:17 <@fale:fale.io> so, OCP/k8s is probably required at least today
2025-12-02 18:01:38 <@humaton:fedora.im> https://codeberg.org/fedora/forgejo-helm
2025-12-02 18:02:08 <@humaton:fedora.im> yup you need kube cluster, but that is not a problem now days.
2025-12-02 18:02:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> ...
2025-12-02 18:02:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> no comment
2025-12-02 18:03:07 <@humaton:fedora.im> Should we publish comunitty blog on somethign like "how to deploy your forge with VM and k8s" ?
2025-12-02 18:03:22 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> at least that yeah
2025-12-02 18:03:58 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> me personally I'll probably use the rpm and do the migrations accordingly
2025-12-02 18:04:20 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't want to be in a position where kubernetes is required for simple dev/prod stuff
2025-12-02 18:05:34 <@humaton:fedora.im> That is your choice but your issues with that are your own 
2025-12-02 18:05:45 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Hmm, I don't think it makes sense to monitor details of what fedora infra is doing, either here or in some public discussion forums.
2025-12-02 18:05:51 <@humaton:fedora.im> the helm is used by us so its maintained and gets tuned 
2025-12-02 18:06:10 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> We *know* that forgejo can be deployed in a bunch of different ways, Fedora infra might be using a more complicated one.
2025-12-02 18:06:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, I don't really think we should micromanage how this is run?
2025-12-02 18:06:12 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I don't want to get into my problems with this here, because we'll be here a long time if we do
2025-12-02 18:06:25 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but I don't care how it's done in prod for fedora-infra
2025-12-02 18:06:33 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I mostly care that fedora infra services are easily replicable
2025-12-02 18:06:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> this is a huge problem we have right now
2025-12-02 18:07:05 <@zbyszek:fedora.im> Or in other words, I don't think we need jednorozec or others to write a howto about forgejo. There are other sources for that.
2025-12-02 18:07:49 <@humaton:fedora.im> well I dont see how we can make it easier than helm install for people to replicate EXACTLY what we run... 
2025-12-02 18:08:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> then at least write up how your deployment works for people to try
2025-12-02 18:08:48 <@fale:fale.io> can we park this one and potentially have a more structured conversation id the replication of the services is a wider issue?
2025-12-02 18:09:04 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> sure
2025-12-02 18:09:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I need to go anyway for food
2025-12-02 18:09:35 <@fale:fale.io> any other open floor conversations? Otherwise I'll close in 2 mins
2025-12-02 18:10:29 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> just FYI: pagure.io outage tomorrow afternoon and a dc move outage (that mostly doesn't affect things people care about) next monday
2025-12-02 18:10:49 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> will ssh host key change? 
2025-12-02 18:11:21 <@decathorpe:fedora.im> (just asking because people have been confused for months after that happened for src.fp.o) 
2025-12-02 18:13:14 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> nope, I'll keep the existing one
2025-12-02 18:13:26 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> (this is just a move of dc's... it's still rhel8, etc)
2025-12-02 18:15:00 <@fale:fale.io> !endmeeting