14:02:15 <mburned> #startmeeting RDO weekly meeting
14:02:15 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 11 14:02:15 2014 UTC.  The chair is mburned. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:02:15 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:02:17 <rbowen> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rdo_community_manager_sync
14:02:21 <mburned> #chair rbowen
14:02:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: mburned rbowen
14:02:29 <mburned> #topic agenda
14:02:36 <mburned> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rdo_community_manager_sync
14:02:38 * kashyap waves
14:02:46 <rbowen> Do we need to wait for anyone else?
14:02:50 <rbowen> pmyers: ping
14:03:03 * eggmaster blinks, rubs eyes
14:03:13 <rbowen> eggmaster: was about to ping you. :)
14:03:15 <kashyap> rbowen, Usual tradition is to wave and ask who's on :-)
14:03:25 * rbowen waves
14:03:34 * eggmaster waves
14:03:36 * mburned waits for people to stop waving...
14:03:41 <kashyap> "tradition" in other Fedora community meetings I've participated :-)
14:04:45 <rbowen> ok, well, I guess let's go ahead.
14:04:49 <mburned> ok, moving on
14:04:58 <mburned> #topic Test Day
14:04:59 <rbowen> Someone tell us about test day.
14:05:16 <mburned> #info test day was held Feb 4-5
14:05:36 <mburned> i haven't had a chance to run down any stats or details
14:05:47 <mburned> and unfortunately my participation was somewhat limited...
14:05:50 <kashyap> Details are on the list
14:05:51 <rbowen> Just based on http://openstack.redhat.com/TestedSetups_2014_02 it looks like not much happened.
14:06:20 <rbowen> What can we do to improve participation next time?
14:06:27 <kashyap> https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2014-February/msg00034.html
14:06:31 <kashyap> And, -- https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2014-February/msg00033.html
14:06:58 <rbowen> So, a decent number of issues opened, looks like.
14:07:02 <kashyap> They both cover the IRC minutes, bugs,
14:07:19 <kashyap> and a proposal (from apevec) to skip Milestone-2 for next release cycle. i.e. M1 -> M3
14:07:30 <rbowen> Why is that?
14:07:38 <kashyap> FWIW, I agree with that, as there's too much flux upstream during M-2
14:07:56 <kashyap> rbowen, Also: For Milestone-3, it's FeatureFreeze and StringFreeze
14:07:56 <rbowen> I also realized on the plane that I didn't finish setting up the Fedora test day stuff. :(
14:08:05 <mburned> #info fair number of issues reported that are being triaged and handled
14:08:12 <mburned> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2014-February/msg00033.html
14:08:12 <rbowen> So I'll definitely commit to doing that for the M3 one.
14:08:15 <mburned> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2014-February/msg00034.html
14:08:31 <morazi> I wonder if we ought to take a meta approach here...
14:08:35 <kashyap> rbowen, Maybe you want to add an #action tag here :-)
14:08:37 <rbowen> kashyap: Ok, that's good to know.
14:08:46 <morazi> It seems to me that it might help to hash out a bit of a process around TestDays in general
14:08:53 <rbowen> #action rbowen will get the Fedora test day wiki page set up for the M3 test day.
14:09:10 <mburned> morazi: i agree
14:09:13 <morazi> rather than say this is specific to M2
14:09:18 <rbowen> morazi: It is indeed kind of ad hoc each time.
14:09:20 <eggmaster> morazi: +1
14:09:56 <rbowen> morazi: I suspect that getting it into the Fedora test day mechanism will help, but I haven't been through that before so I'm not certain.
14:10:06 <mburned> i think coordinating the test day around a milestone date makes sense, but we do need more structure...
14:10:24 <kashyap> FWIW, it's just a label (i.e. the test day happened during M2 of upstream IceHouse release)
14:10:34 <morazi> yea, I was thinking something similar re: borrowing Fedora structure.  I think I missed the first bit from Kashyap where he likely described it for us.
14:11:24 <kashyap> morazi, Yes, Fedora virt test days has a well oiled procedure (and still light-weight)
14:11:31 <morazi> right.  My thinking is we need a mechanism to do something of a go/no-go on a given date.  It seems that at we had some knowledge of where we were likely to fall down, etc.
14:12:27 <rbowen> Do you have any specific suggestions, other than borrowing from Fedora?
14:12:41 <kashyap> The least-common denominator is: having the relevant packages for all targeted distributions
14:13:50 <kashyap> If that's there, I think it can still be ad-hoc (people can just show up and start working), as long as participants report bugs/observations to the correct component
14:14:03 <kashyap> mburned, Do you have any specifics on mind when you say "more structure"?
14:14:36 <mburned> kashyap: nothing really specific, but it just felt disorganized, somewhat
14:14:45 <mburned> and part of that might have been my distraction...
14:14:59 <rbowen> I was certainly distracted this time around, too.
14:15:05 <eggmaster> FOSDEM timing didn't *help*
14:15:07 <mburned> and part might have been the conferences going on...
14:15:21 <eggmaster> with participation, I suspect.
14:15:24 <kashyap> mburned, IME, community test-days are always a little unstructured, no?
14:15:29 <rbowen> But even for that it looks like some good came out of it.
14:15:35 <kashyap> Also, we've ran this test day from less than a month from the last one
14:15:42 <rbowen> But I think that it's going to be expected to be fairly unstructured.
14:16:08 <kashyap> Yes.
14:16:32 <rbowen> kashyap: What do you think is a good cadence?
14:17:14 <rbowen> If we just do M1 and M3, and perhaps final, we'll still get valuable participation out of that.
14:17:22 <kashyap> rbowen, Two days for M1, M3 sounds reasonable to me (skipping M2)
14:17:39 <kashyap> Let's also ask pixelb if he has any inputs here ^
14:17:40 * mburned would agree with m1 and m3
14:17:45 <rbowen> What about final?
14:17:54 <pmyers> rbowen: you ping'd earlier?
14:18:07 <rbowen> pmyers: Just letting you know we're chatting here. Nothing urgent.
14:18:18 <pmyers> ah ok
14:18:23 <kashyap> That's the IceHouse release schedule -- https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule
14:18:26 <larsks> I think we should also do a better job following up on bugs discovered during test day -- ideally they get addressed by the following test day (which is another reason to space them apart a bit).
14:18:28 <mburned> final -- i'm somewhat torn
14:18:39 <kashyap> Icehouse-3  is 6-MARCH-2014
14:18:48 <mburned> something like a go/no-go or acceptance test type of scenario would make sense
14:18:50 <rbowen> Icehouse Release is April 17th, which is during another major event.
14:19:02 <rbowen> And then summit is may 15th
14:19:07 <mburned> but our ability to fix after final would seem limited
14:19:07 <kashyap> GA is 17-APRIL-2014
14:19:09 <rbowen> so the time between is likely to be somewhat hectic.
14:19:39 <mburned> #idea for future releases, go to M1 and M3 for test day and skip M2 (too many test days, too quick cadence)
14:19:49 <rbowen> well, let's 1) plan for m3 and 2) look into the Fedora process more.
14:19:51 <mburned> #info debate on whether to do test day for final
14:20:04 <mburned> #info also should investigate fedora test day process more
14:20:21 <mburned> #info Icehouse M3 is 6-March
14:20:49 <mburned> #info tentatively set test day for March 18-19
14:21:09 <rbowen> Anything else on that?
14:21:12 <mburned> everyone agree with those? ^^
14:21:18 <rbowen> Yes, that looks good to me.
14:21:22 <kashyap> +1 from me
14:21:37 <mburned> ok, moving on
14:21:42 <mburned> #topic Hangout
14:21:51 <rbowen> We have a hangout scheduled for the 27th.
14:21:54 <mburned> #link http://openstack.redhat.com/Hangouts
14:22:02 <rbowen> larsks will be doing a multinode setup demo.
14:22:04 <mburned> #info next scheduled for Feb 27 with larsks
14:22:20 <mburned> #info featuring a multinode setup demo
14:22:32 <rbowen> And I will hopefully be adding a few more scheduled ones to the above URL in the coming days.
14:22:50 <mburned> #info rbowen will hopefully be scheduling a few more in the coming days
14:23:00 <rbowen> Add your suggestions/requests/volunteer at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rdo_hangouts
14:23:20 <mburned> #info if you have a proposal or would like to volunteer, please see this etherpad
14:23:24 <mburned> #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rdo_hangouts
14:23:34 <mburned> #info or contact rbowen
14:23:42 <rbowen> That's all I have there.
14:23:52 <mburned> #topic Newsletter
14:24:09 <rbowen> I managed to typo the address of the February newsletter, so it didn't go out.
14:24:10 <rbowen> Brilliant.
14:24:12 <mburned> #info February newsletter sent yesterday (was sent earlier to incorrect list)
14:24:36 <mburned> #info topics for the march newsletter can be proposed here:  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/rdo_mar_2014_newsletter
14:24:40 <rbowen> If you have anything you'd like to have in the March newsletter, please contact me. I've got nothing so far.
14:25:08 <rbowen> Next?
14:25:19 <mburned> #topic Conference review
14:25:38 <mburned> #info FOSDEM Infrastructure.Next and Config Mgmt camp were held last week
14:25:52 <rbowen> I had never been to FOSDEM before. It was crazy. People said it was, but it was ... overwhelming.
14:26:02 <mburned> #info rbowen interviewed Ohad about foreman, should be published soon
14:26:05 <rbowen> Lots of good content on all topics.
14:26:07 <kashyap> mburned, That's already addressed as a summary write-up in the Newsletter
14:27:07 <mburned> kashyap: ack, but worth it to mention in this meeting, even briefly
14:27:15 <kashyap> Yep
14:27:18 <mburned> rbowen: any highlights that we should capture
14:27:39 <mburned> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2014-February/msg00049.html
14:27:48 <mburned> #info the newsletter ^^
14:27:56 <rbowen> I spent a lot of my time at puppet/chef/foreman/etc related talks. But the iaas/cloud room was packed the whole time too.
14:28:24 <rbowen> I need to pull together a list of the slides/notes from the various OpenStack talks.
14:28:38 <rbowen> And there was a conversation on the list about the response to my Ceilometer talk.
14:28:41 <mburned> #info good content on many topics
14:28:53 <mburned> #info iaas/cloud room was packed the entire time
14:29:33 <rbowen> I talked about Ceilometer at the Infrastructure.next event, and the folks there from the monitoring crowd had a lot to say about what Ceilometer is doing wrong.
14:30:03 <rbowen> I'm really hoping to be able to bring them into the OpenStack conversation, rather than just having them sniping from afar. :-)
14:30:15 <larsks> rbowen: Do you have notes from that discussion?
14:30:19 <mburned> #info rbowen spoke at Infrastrucutre.next about ceilometer
14:30:27 <rbowen> Unfortunately, the two most vocal of them left almost immediately after the talk, and I didn't get to discus it further with them yet.
14:30:38 <mburned> #info generated a lot of comments on what ceilometer is doing wrong
14:30:50 <rbowen> larsks: dneary posted something to the (internal) mailing list about that conversation. I need to follow up with email to rdo-list as well.
14:31:08 <mburned> #info rbowen  hoping to bring them into openstack community to help improve
14:31:19 <rbowen> larsks: Most of the "conversation" was on Twitter, and I was on stage at the time, but I will write up something asap.
14:31:43 * dneary feels his ears get warm
14:31:44 <mburned> #action rbowen to summarize and post to rdo-list soon
14:31:46 <larsks> rbowen: Thanks. Sounds like an interesting discussion.
14:32:02 <rbowen> There's also a lot of dogma in the monitoring community that I don't yet really understand, so I feel like I'm missing something.
14:32:12 <kashyap> There are always people who disagree. It'd be useful if folks can _articulate_ in more than a short burst of 143 characters
14:32:36 <rbowen> kashyap: Yes, very true. And so I'm hoping to engage these folks at greater length than just tweets.
14:33:16 <rbowen> So, that was the most interesting thing from my FOSDEM experience. And there are numerous other FOSDEM writeups floating around.
14:33:36 <rbowen> The beer was good, too.
14:33:54 <mburned> rbowen: is that #info worthy? ;-)
14:33:58 <rbowen> heh.
14:34:12 <kashyap> mburned, I can attest to that :-)
14:34:20 <eggmaster> I, for one, already knew beer == good
14:34:27 <kashyap> (I wasn't there, but was there before that)
14:34:50 <mburned> it's belgium and beer...
14:34:52 <rbowen> Somehow, the RDO printed material didn't appear at the event, so I had to talk louder and explain RDO without printed materials.
14:35:02 <mburned> it's like going to scotland and saying the whisky is good...
14:35:06 <rbowen> We have discussion ongoing on how to fix that for upcoming events.
14:35:25 <rbowen> If I have to go to kinkos in Los Angeles and print them myself, I'll do that. Hopefully that won't be necessary.
14:35:44 <kashyap> [Gentle nudge] Are we digressing? :-)
14:35:47 <rbowen> So, speaking of the next event.
14:35:55 <mburned> #info printed RDO materials unfortunately did not show up, plans underway to fix this in the future
14:36:05 <mburned> is that it for the past events
14:36:07 <mburned> ?
14:36:11 <rbowen> Yes, I believe so.
14:36:13 <mburned> #topic Upcoming events
14:36:17 <mburned> ok!
14:36:27 <mburned> what's coming up?
14:36:30 <rbowen> SCALE - SoCal Linux Expo is next weekend in LA. RDO will have a table there.
14:36:53 <rbowen> And there's another Infrastructure.next event there, on Friday, for which I will be rewriting my Ceilometer talk.
14:36:58 <mburned> #info SCALE will be held next weeking in LA, RDO will have a table
14:37:06 <rbowen> (Giving other, unrelated talks at SCALE too.)
14:37:30 <rbowen> If you're going to be there, I could use help for an hour here or there at the RDO table.
14:37:41 <mburned> #info also another Infrastructure.Next event (rbowen will present a re-written ceilometer talk there)
14:38:01 <mburned> #info if you will be in attendance and are will to help with the RDO table, please contact rbowen
14:38:25 <mburned> any other conferences coming up?
14:38:39 * mburned thinking feb/mar timeframe
14:38:59 <rbowen> I haven't though much past SCALE for upcoming events. I'm doing an Apache event in April and have been kind of focused on that in my personal time.
14:39:18 <rbowen> I do needt o update http://openstack.redhat.com/Events
14:39:32 <rbowen> Pretty much evertyhing listed there is past. I'll update that today.
14:39:33 <mburned> i know there is the J Summit and RH Summit in May and April as well
14:39:45 <mburned> #action rbowen to update http://openstack.redhat.com/Events
14:40:10 <rbowen> I was also discussing upcoming events with mburned yesterday - events where there's likely to be a strong OpenStack presence.
14:40:29 <rbowen> But I can't think of any of them in the upcoming 2 months
14:40:31 <mburned> yes, we should solidify that list and review it next week
14:41:10 <rbowen> #action rbowen and mburned to review list of upcoming "cloud" events, and talk next week about where we might want to have a presence.
14:41:41 <mburned> ok, anything else about upcoming events?
14:41:44 <rbowen> Nope.
14:41:58 <mburned> #topic CentOS Cloud SIG
14:42:09 <mburned> #info not much action in the last week or 2 on this
14:42:12 <rbowen> The CentOS guys were pretty much all at FOSDEM.
14:42:26 <rbowen> So the list has been very quiet.
14:42:29 <mburned> #info mburned meeting with kbsingh this week to start really driving this forward
14:42:39 <rbowen> Oh, excellent.
14:42:49 <mburned> #info mburned has been asked to a driving role in the SIG
14:43:05 <mburned> #info should have more updates next week
14:43:39 <mburned> #info Cloud Instance SIG is also up and running and mburned will be participating there as well
14:44:10 <rbowen> Bug Triage is on the agenda, but we haven't had one since the last meeting. When is the next one scheduled?
14:44:15 <mburned> #info Cloud Instance is about generating centos images for use in a cloud infrastructure
14:44:22 <mburned> #topic Bug Triage
14:44:26 <kashyap> rbowen, It's proposed on RDO list
14:44:35 <mburned> #info next scheduled one is Feb 19
14:44:43 <kashyap> 19FEB -- https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2014-February/msg00050.html
14:44:49 <rbowen> Ah. Ok. Sorry, missed that. Will check there. Still catching up.
14:44:51 <rbowen> Thanks.
14:45:16 <rbowen> And, finally, ask.openstack.org
14:45:29 <mburned> #topic Forum questions
14:45:52 <rbowen> We've fallen pretty far behind there. Need to see if we can get that burned down a little bit in the coming days.
14:46:08 <mburned> #info currently 35 unanswered posts
14:46:14 <mburned> #info need to start driving that down
14:46:15 <rbowen> 35 unanswered as of right now.
14:46:26 <rbowen> Although there's a significant number that are just abandoned.
14:46:36 <rbowen> And I'm not sure what to do about that, since that will just keep growing.
14:46:46 <rbowen> Probably need to just close some of them.
14:47:14 <mburned> rbowen: if they appear abandoned, i'd say ping once for updates, then close if no update within 1 week
14:47:42 <rbowen> By that process, there's at least 5 that I can close right away, since I pinged them over a week ago.
14:47:51 <mburned> works for me
14:48:09 <rbowen> That's all I have. Done if nobody has anything else they want to talk about.
14:48:09 <kashyap> rbowen, Yes, you can only go so far.
14:48:18 <kashyap> One last thing
14:48:59 <mburned> kashyap: sure
14:49:01 <kashyap> morazi, asked about Fedora test day structure, that's the loose structure we use -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-10-08_Virtualization
14:49:07 <kashyap> mburned, ^
14:49:17 <mburned> #topic test day structure (revisited)
14:49:25 <kashyap> Nothing radically new, just to note that's all
14:49:32 <mburned> #info we currently loosely use the Fedora test day structure
14:49:39 <mburned> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2013-10-08_Virtualization
14:49:45 <mburned> #info nothing radically new
14:50:10 <kashyap> :-)
14:50:10 <mburned> ok, any other topics or comments?
14:50:41 <morazi> given that test day structure, maybe you can speak a bit more kashyap about how they get to readiness reliably.
14:51:36 <morazi> are they just more firm with code/package cut-offs, or do they have a go/no-go announcement?  Or are things just at a maturity level where there aren't nearly as many early blockers as we see?
14:51:38 <kashyap> I think the most important point is having the right package versions available during the time-frame
14:51:55 <mburned> we should also figure out exactly what we want to cover
14:52:20 <mburned> specific workflows, etc...
14:52:23 <kashyap> There's no go/no-go announcement, it's usually noted on virt@lists.fedoraproject.org,
14:52:33 <kashyap> people show up, participate, ask questions
14:52:39 <kashyap> Those two days, there's quick turn around on IRC from developers to assist in troubleshooting, etc
14:52:42 <kashyap> morazi, However,
14:52:55 <morazi> yea, my feeling is that we generally come in to test day with at least some notion of what we want to test, but it is fairly generic.  (So, mburned tests the packstack driven all-in-one install, panda_ you have the multi-node version)
14:52:58 <kashyap> We ensure to have the wiki page ready, reasonably updated URLs for test-cases,
14:53:47 <kashyap> And, any test scripts to run, things that need more stressing/incubating features, all to avoid duplication of effort/stepping on toes
14:53:51 <mburned> morazi: maybe have a set of things we would like people to volunteer for
14:54:07 <rbowen> Having more detailed info on test cases is important to get new folks into the process.
14:54:13 <zsun> sorry to break in. I do think it is very useful to add some more test-cases for test day. EOF.
14:54:28 <mburned> and let others choose their own if they have specific scenarios in mind
14:54:39 <kashyap> morazi, People should add their set-ups in tested-setups page, so there's a variety of approaches
14:55:12 <mburned> zsun: thanks for the feedback!
14:55:14 <kashyap> mburned, Right, I try to target under-the-hood aspects, so I do hand-configured setups
14:55:20 <rbowen> zsun: Please feel free to break in any time. This meeting is on IRC specifically so that it's not just closed to the small group. Thanks!
14:55:26 <kashyap> (to isolate problems that are not installation related)
14:55:45 <mburned> kashyap: yep
14:56:13 <mburned> as for packages, i think we should be safe there if we're giving ~2 weeks from milestone date to test day...
14:56:14 <kashyap> rbowen, The thing is - tests/ details need to be fairly high-level, and not too specific, lest it'll be a maintenance nightmare
14:56:44 <rbowen> YEah, I was just thinking - you want people to be able to improvise and test edge cases, so too much scripting actually harms testing.
14:56:45 <mburned> we need something like the "areas to test" section
14:57:04 <rbowen> So, suggestions of what to try, but also encourage folks to try to break stuff.
14:57:24 <kashyap> Yes. Also, another to keep in mind would be to ensure what complex Blueprints are *completely* implemented
14:57:24 <rbowen> I have a hard stop in 3 minutes. Feel free to keep going.
14:57:34 <kashyap> and haven't got any attention in any of the previous test days
14:57:42 <mburned> rbowen: yes, but i'd say something like propose general scenarios and let the testers fill in details
14:57:49 <kashyap> rbowen, I think in 3 minutes, we can wrap up. It'll be top of the hour, anyway.
14:58:26 <mburned> maybe we need to get some of the maintainers to propose specific areas that should *always* be tested
14:58:31 <kashyap> mburned, Yep, folks have different hardware, network cards, all kinds of crazy storage setups.
14:58:45 <mburned> and areas that should be focused on for a specific test day, like new features...
14:58:50 <mburned> kashyap: yep
14:58:51 <kashyap> I think this is better discussed on mailing list
14:58:57 <mburned> agreed
14:59:02 <mburned> kashyap: can you start the discussion there?
14:59:42 <mburned> and then we can wrap this meeting up
15:00:08 <mburned> anything else?
15:00:24 <rbowen> That's all, I believe
15:00:29 <mburned> ok, thanks all
15:00:31 <mburned> #endmeeting