14:21:23 <mchua> #startmeeting
14:21:24 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 22 14:21:23 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:21:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:21:33 <mchua> #meetingname POSSE Worcester curriculum II
14:21:34 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'posse_worcester_curriculum_ii'
14:21:39 <mchua> #chair sdziallas
14:21:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: mchua sdziallas
14:23:22 <mchua> sdziallas: ok, let's see. when last we left our heroes, they were on Wednesday's curriculum...
14:23:25 <mchua> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teachingopensource/2010-04-21/posse_worcester_curriculum_brainstorming.2010-04-21-19.57.html
14:23:32 <mchua> #info that's where we left off last time
14:23:35 <mchua> #topic Wednesday
14:23:52 <mchua> we're missing one part of Wednesday, which is "what big codebase should we dive through"
14:24:12 * sdziallas nods. I suggested sugar-core last time, but... dunno.
14:25:49 <mchua> Does that imply diving through jhbuild, though?
14:25:55 <mchua> Because I don't know if we want to actually take that time.
14:25:58 <mchua> and pain.
14:26:04 <sdziallas> Not noecessarily. I mean you can just git checkout stuff.
14:26:12 <sdziallas> Or we can just have them install the rpms...
14:26:34 <sdziallas> ...and edit some code as root, as to say "hack your email address in the restart button" or whatever ;)
14:30:07 <sdziallas> We could also refer (if we wanted to go with something non-sugar) to something like Empathy / Telepathy and go then like "aaaand Sugar is using *exactly* that technology for chat and collaboration".
14:30:18 <mchua> sdziallas: but if they were actually going to become sugar-core hackers they'd use jhbuild though.
14:30:25 <mchua> and... and... I dunno, "edit some code as root" makes me flinch.
14:31:33 <sdziallas> mchua: same here. I don't think it'd be ideal, either.
14:31:50 <mchua> Ok, we'll ask Walter to solve the problem.
14:32:05 <mchua> #action walterbender find a large codebase to dive through, sugar-core or otherwise, that has a sane setup.
14:32:14 * sdziallas grins :)
14:32:18 <mchua> #info Activity: large codebase dive-in
14:32:36 <sdziallas> (ruled and approved in absence.)
14:32:43 <mchua> sdziallas: and I think that takes care of Wednesday, really, with packaging night v.2.0 as the evening activity.
14:32:59 <sdziallas> yup, sounds good to me!
14:33:25 <mchua> #topic Thursday
14:33:40 <sdziallas> that was the one that needed the most intensive overhaul, iirc.
14:33:47 <mchua> sdziallas: go ahead and braindump a bit
14:33:55 <mchua> what would you say the goals for the day are?
14:34:17 <sdziallas> mchua: well, if they've worked on the activities by then a bit...
14:35:08 <sdziallas> mchua: ...I'm inclined to suggest to keep Friday for wrap up, so that Debugging and Testing actually fits here, too. Just that we wouldn't need Visual Studio here and stuff. ;)
14:35:59 <sdziallas> mchua: like: "does your activity work, how does it look like, can we have a test case, try it out on real life SoaS, not just devel environment"?
14:36:46 <mchua> That sounds great, actually.
14:36:55 <mchua> Maybe Thursday is the day we focus on deployment.
14:37:02 <mchua> Which debugging is an important part of, really.
14:38:01 * sdziallas nods.
14:38:09 <sdziallas> Well...
14:38:36 <sdziallas> ...also, if they've got their stuff working by then, is this the time we attempt to merge stuff back and get a release? Or is this probably out of scope?
14:39:04 <sdziallas> (like: "you did $foo, test case works, congrats! now do a git merge request and let's make sure to nag the official maintainer this $way"?)
14:39:29 <mchua> sdziallas: well, I figure we can shoot for an SoaS remix
14:39:40 <mchua> since I doubt we'll get all the packages approved and pushed through in time
14:39:57 <mchua> but we can throw the rpms on someone's machine and build *some* .iso for them to take home
14:40:12 <mchua> so they get a preview of what it'll look like when all the merge requests are in
14:40:13 <sdziallas> mchua: yeah, right. well, we can pull activities from a.sl.o, too (I was wondering whether it might make sense to introduce them there, but... ayup, you're right.)
14:40:16 <mchua> ("work locally first")
14:40:41 <mchua> if we, by some miracle, get everything pushed through in time, and can actually have their stuff going into nightly builds, rockin'. but I doubt we'll get that far.
14:40:56 <sdziallas> mchua: yup, sounds good! it won't be my laptop the image gets built on (though I'll be happy to work through that) ;)
14:40:59 <mchua> it also gives us a good excuse to contact people later - "you know the thing you worked on? well, it's going to ship now"
14:40:59 <sdziallas> mchua: *nod* +1
14:41:09 <sdziallas> "*try out*"
14:41:24 <mchua> but you and I and (remotely) Peter can do Activity reviews for people, live
14:41:44 <mchua> we can get some people working on packages that you/Peter own so that we'll have at least *one* thing pushed so folks see what that's like
14:41:56 <sdziallas> Sounds good!
14:42:11 <mchua> so we want to (1) send them home that night with a customized soas remix (according to the customization guide? hm.)
14:42:19 <mchua> and (2) teach them how to debug a lot
14:42:31 <mchua> and (3) discuss student projects because friday is all about what they're going to do with their classrooms next year.
14:43:07 <sdziallas> (we'd not even need to rebrand that remix, but yeah...)
14:43:12 <sdziallas> Makes sense!
14:43:31 <sdziallas> I'm curious about (3) already, actually.
14:44:18 <mchua> Me too. We'll just pull together stories at the end of the semsester and then start pointing to them and telling them, basically.
14:44:36 <mchua> Nothing we have to actually plan for, we all know enough students working on open source, plus there's the whole TOS list to ask before POSSEs start this summer.
14:45:00 <sdziallas> Yeah, right... that should be plenty of resource.
14:45:19 <mchua> #info Goals: Deployment day! (1) send people home with a customized soas remix of what the image will look like once their changes are merged, (2) debugging tools and strategies, (3) discuss student projects in preparation for Friday
14:45:55 <mchua> #info Activity: work through as many merge/review requests as possible for Activity inclusion on SoaS, wrap up this portion of the day by building a remix
14:46:10 <sdziallas> wooooo!
14:46:33 <mchua> #info Activity: Debugging tools and strategies - testing/support, or "what to do when stuff goes wrong"
14:46:47 <mchua> #info Activity: Discussion on student projects, prepare for tomorrow's teaching-focused day
14:47:02 <mchua> #info Activity: big dinner downtown with local open source / Sugar folks
14:47:33 <mchua> sdziallas: I'm guessing we'll want to do this at a place closer to downtown, or in downtown, and just carpool everyone there, so that Boston hackers can actually make it in.
14:47:46 * mchua will make walter pick a place.
14:47:47 <sdziallas> yeah, sounds right to me.
14:47:56 <mchua> #action walterbender pick a location for Thursday's big dinner
14:48:23 <mchua> sdziallas: anything else for thurs?
14:48:46 <sdziallas> mchua: I think that's already pretty full; we should be good.
14:49:39 <mchua> #topic Friday
14:49:46 <mchua> Friday is pretty straightforward, we're essentially done
14:49:58 * sdziallas grins.
14:50:00 <mchua> #info Goal: discussion of future plans for classrooms, wrap-up
14:50:01 <mchua> That's it.
14:50:07 <sdziallas> Whoa.
14:50:20 <mchua> #info That's really it - we end at noon, and then people are free
14:50:42 <mchua> #info Walter, Sebastian, and Mel should have a working lunch afterwards to wrap up
14:50:45 <mchua> sdziallas: and that's the week.
14:50:52 <mchua> And then we all go and collapse for a while.
14:50:54 <sdziallas> :)
14:51:01 <mchua> Shall we review the schedule, make sure we aren't missing stuff?
14:51:09 <mchua> And then figure out what we need to do between now and then get ready?
14:51:15 <mchua> and then yell at walter for missing the meeting? :)
14:51:24 <sdziallas> possibly ;) (yup yup)
14:53:29 <mchua> #topic Review of the week, and action items between now and June
14:53:48 <sdziallas> (phone call, hang on.
14:53:49 <mchua> #
14:53:50 <mchua> 3.
14:53:50 <mchua> # Monday (mchua, 20:26:35)
14:53:50 <mchua> 1. Goal: Learn how to use the communication tools the community uses. (mchua, 20:28:33) 2. accounts to create: SL trac, gitorious, FAS, RHBZ, aslo, freenode nick registration, SL wiki (mchua, 20:31:01) 3. each attendee should be set up with a blog (mchua, 20:33:51)
14:53:54 <mchua> 4. ACTION: mchua make account-creaion instructions and send them out beforehand so professors can arrive with accounts already made (anld then just learn to use them) (mchua, 20:34:13)
14:54:01 <mchua> (np, I'll go through things)
14:54:26 <mchua> #action mchua make sure the join processes for each type of account are actually sane, and that all account registrations can be completed in <1h; make screencast if necessary, hack code if necessary.
14:54:49 <mchua> #action mchua make sure we have one good tutorial available for each communications method
14:55:43 <mchua> #action sdziallas make sure we have a SoaS image, usage guide, customization guide to hand out to people
14:56:03 <mchua> #action mchua purchase USB sticks for attendees and burn the provided SoaS image on them before the start of POSSE
14:56:33 <mchua> #action sdziallas make sure we have a Fedora-based image (spin, remix, etc) for professors to use as their dev environment throughout the week, and that it has tools for all the activities we'll be doing throughout the week
14:57:16 <mchua> #action mchua make sure we have computing power available to run said image, and easy instructions to do so, whether that's a RH-provided VM somehow or a solution that will let attendees easily spin up VMs on their computers, or loaner computers
14:57:25 <mchua> I wish we had a traveling laptop cart for this sometimes.
14:58:00 <mchua> #action walterbender pick and provide a Sugar Activity development IDE that's easy for novices to learn to use (Eclipse? DrPython? Gedit?)
14:58:32 <mchua> #action walterbender sdziallas mchua make sure the Sugar community is aware that POSSE is going to happen, and that professors will be arriving for this one week
14:58:32 <sdziallas> (back. reads log.)
14:58:47 <mchua> #action sdziallas prepare for evening packaging sessions, focused on Sugar activities
14:59:15 * sdziallas grins. laptop cart sounds good ;)
14:59:17 <mchua> #action mchua work with #sugar devs to come up with a good "what is jhbuild? how to explore it on your own!" resource since we won't be exploring jhbuild specifically during the week, due to scope
14:59:38 <mchua> #action mchua make sure all attendees have a computer that can boot SoaS
15:00:00 <mchua> #action mchua make sure we have SoaS activity inclusion criteria - start first draft, final signoff by sdziallas
15:00:22 <mchua> #action walterbender make sure we have good "how to start Activity development" and "how to modify Activities" resources
15:00:28 <mchua> hm, need python ones as well
15:00:52 <mchua> sdziallas: feel like being a guinea pig for that sometime? :) maybe just for an hour or two in the days before when you're in town, if nothing else
15:01:03 <sdziallas> mchua: for sure :)
15:01:30 <sdziallas> mchua: (jsimmons activity writing guide might be interesting to refer to, too)
15:02:27 <mchua> #note jsimmons has an Activity guide that's great
15:02:37 <mchua> #action mchua and sdziallas test-drive and choose some intro-to-Python resources to have on hand
15:03:00 <mchua> #action sdziallas sync with pbrobinson about this POSSE week and SoaS work needed to get ready for it
15:03:04 <mchua> (since you talk with him the most of all of us)
15:03:11 <sdziallas> mchua: Allen Downey might be... oh well ;)
15:03:15 <mchua> #action mchua choose an "intro to git" tutorial
15:03:25 <mchua> sdziallas: ah yeah, we should at some point make a list of people to invite
15:04:25 <sdziallas> Yeah, sounds good!
15:05:50 <mchua> I think that's it for tuesday prep.
15:06:01 <mchua> walter already has a "what is sugar?" speech he can give in his sleep.
15:06:06 <sdziallas> cool!
15:06:09 <mchua> Wednesday!
15:06:20 <mchua> #action mchua fix up "how to do a bug report" resources
15:06:37 <mchua> sdziallas: want to figure out the patch/merge request stuff, or do we punt that to Walter?
15:06:41 <mchua> actually, maybe we punt that to Walter
15:06:45 * sdziallas laughs.
15:07:01 <sdziallas> mchua: that's as easy as clicking a single thing in the gitorious web interface, I guess.
15:07:10 <sdziallas> (I think, IIRC)
15:07:17 <sdziallas> (after you git pushed, that is)
15:07:37 <mchua> we still need to tell them what a patch is, what a diff is, what a merge is
15:07:50 <mchua> they aren't necessarily familiar with version control
15:07:58 <mchua> or programming something with someone other than themselves.
15:08:10 <sdziallas> right.
15:09:43 <mchua> #action walterbender prepare resources/explanation/tutorial for patch, merge, diff
15:21:07 <mchua> (for those watching: we have temporarily been distracted by either studying or allegheny students, back shortly)
15:24:49 <mchua> #action watlerbender make sure Activity maintainers can be active in accepting merge requests during that week (so we can steer people towards Activities with active maintainers)
15:25:14 <mchua> #action mchua make sure we have a good "why should you blog?" nudge, and that the SL community is geared up to comment on planet posts
15:25:26 <mchua> #action mchua make sure we will have fast turnaround on "add my blog to planet" at the start of POSSe week
15:25:35 <mchua> (or I could make sure everyone's on Planet beforehand, I suppose)
15:25:39 <sdziallas> (bernie should be able to let us do that)
15:26:11 <mchua> yep.
15:32:24 <erwqt> how couls i become a good open source programmer
15:32:34 <erwqt> i know all basic c++
15:33:23 <mchua> erwqt: Actually, we wrote a book on that. :)
15:33:27 <mchua> erwqt: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Textbook_Project
15:33:53 <erwqt> let me follow the link
15:36:27 <erwqt> k i will see to it
15:36:43 <erwqt> anything more for a beginner
15:37:26 <mchua> erwqt: Well, it depends on what you mean by a "good open source programmer." Do you know what that means to you?
15:37:30 <mchua> And why do you want to become one?
15:37:57 <erwqt> i am crazy in writing the codes
15:39:01 <mchua> Ah, then that textbook will be a good starting place for you; it doesn't teach programming, but it does teach the community processes by which code gets written collaboratively in FOSS.
15:39:06 <mchua> ...oh well, erwqt is gone.
16:01:23 <mchua> #info ending meeting, will resume after this next one
16:01:24 <mchua> #endmeeting