20:02:08 <mchua> #startmeeting
20:02:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May 27 20:02:08 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:02:18 <alolita> hi mel
20:02:35 <alolita> can you give me an email id to share a google doc with you
20:02:35 <mchua> #info hopeful news. We potentially have 5 attendees.
20:02:41 <mchua> alolita: metamel@gmail
20:02:47 <alolita> ok hold on
20:03:26 <mchua> (although depending on what it is, we may want to move it to the wiki if it's ok to go public.)
20:04:33 <alolita> yes i agree - let's review it first
20:04:50 <alolita> i have the application from tony wasserman
20:05:03 <mchua> Ok - and Sameer?
20:05:08 <alolita> and sameer verma said he will be emailing me the responses also
20:05:15 <mchua> We had 2 new applicants in the past day, which is good.
20:05:15 * quaid here
20:05:18 <alolita> i also have another confirmed attendee from stanford
20:05:20 <mchua> yay, quaid!
20:05:23 <alolita> excellent
20:05:24 <mchua> alolita: Ok, I need applications. :)
20:05:47 <alolita> mel - i know the drill :-)
20:05:58 <mchua> TBH, I wish the new apps I was seeing had more thought put into them. One is entirely sentence fragments.
20:06:04 <mchua> the whole thing is less than 500 characters.
20:06:20 <alolita> who sent you the new apps ?
20:06:26 <alolita> any schools locally?
20:06:29 <mchua> So I'll probably write back and say "can you please elaborate?"
20:06:53 <mchua> One SFSU prof (not Sameer), one adjunct from SFSU who also teaches classes at a few other local colleges.
20:06:56 <alolita> well - i think we should just ask them in detail on email and followup as well as get more details when they attend
20:07:05 <alolita> good :-)
20:07:22 <mchua> Yeah, I'd like more details before we get the +1, but I'll let them know about that tonight. Should hear back by this time next week.
20:07:40 <quaid> my biggest concern at poor applications is ...
20:07:44 * ianweller notes that this sounds like good news
20:07:45 <alolita> can you share the responses on the questions from these folks
20:07:48 <mchua> The last prof may need to leave a little early on Saturday, but is a great candidate and is generally able to make it.
20:07:54 <alolita> good
20:07:54 <mchua> alolita: Absolutely.
20:08:01 <quaid> impedence miss between POSSE goals and their expectations.
20:08:16 <mchua> quaid: Yes, agreed. I think a small class will help with that, though. But it is a concern of mine.
20:08:32 <alolita> we have dr. white (my good friend of open source) from stanford who wants to attend
20:08:38 <quaid> esp. the last responses you shared, it was focused on getting up to speed on software development tools
20:08:56 <alolita> quaid: hi
20:09:01 <quaid> hi alolita
20:09:16 <quaid> I'm very glad you got someone from Stanford; I was intimated about contacting them directly :)
20:09:25 <alolita> so potentially we have 6 profs
20:09:29 <alolita> now
20:09:37 <ianweller> how many do we have for sure?
20:10:27 <alolita> we have 3 appls from sfsu, tony from cmu, dr. white from stanford, and one prof from ny - right? mel
20:10:44 <mchua> alolita, quaid - you have the two new apps in your inbox with my comments.
20:10:57 <mchua> ianweller: for sure, 0. Probable, 3.
20:11:00 <alolita> mchua: thanks much :-)
20:11:00 <mchua> possible, 6.
20:11:13 <alolita> mchua: why do you say 0?
20:11:50 <alolita> active outreach is the only way to work with profs :-) pessimism not allowed
20:11:58 <mchua> Until we have 5 probable, we have 0 definite.
20:12:09 <mchua> oh, +1 on the active outreach, and I'm certainly hopeful!
20:12:24 <mchua> Just noting that we don't actually have a POSSE until we get a few more confirmations (not just applications).
20:12:34 <mchua> I hope to have those turned around by the time we meet on Tuesday.
20:12:46 <alolita> mchua: i must be missing something; all the profs i have spoken with have confirmed interest in attending
20:12:55 <alolita> do you need anything else to confirm these folks?
20:13:10 <alolita> is it the posse process i don't know about?
20:13:28 <mchua> alolita: they apply, if we accept them, they confirm.
20:13:40 <mchua> some profs apply and then have to cancel
20:13:48 <mchua> some apply to multiple POSSEs and we accept them for one
20:13:48 <alolita> mchua: why would we not accept them?
20:13:52 <quaid> right, there is still possibility that all will back out, especially until they have had the "submit, accept, accept myself" processto reaffirm.
20:14:07 <alolita> mchua: that's true :-)
20:14:24 <mchua> alolita: concerns about fit; see my comments on the apps I forwarded you wrt concerns (that I'm going to ask about and give them the chance to revise, since I'd *like* to accept them.)
20:15:05 <alolita> well - think of it as absolute outreach - if you work with 10 profs ; maybe only 1 will get students to contribute - right?
20:15:38 <alolita> in my experience - it is important to have as much breadth as possible
20:15:51 <mchua> Actually, we screen applicants *because* we expect the ones we accept to have a high percentage of success in getting students into FOSS within 2-3 academic years.
20:16:04 <alolita> sameer verma teaches in the business school yet he does an enormous amount with gimp and inkscape
20:16:10 <alolita> so hard to judge ahead of time
20:16:15 <mchua> I've worked with Sameer in OLPC - he's wonderful.
20:16:28 <alolita> he's a cool guy :-)
20:16:31 <quaid> bottom line - we'll accept some potentially poor fits in this case because of the opportunity, but I want to be careful we don't start a bad reputation for POSSE in the Valley.
20:16:32 <mchua> I'm not judging on the basis of discipline or experience - simply on the thoughtfulness of their applications, in this case.
20:17:02 <alolita> mchua: that is my concern also - i really want posse to be successful here
20:17:14 <quaid> mchua: some people aren't writers, so let's throw them a bone.
20:17:32 <mchua> quaid: Right, which is why I'll be writing back and saying "we'd love to accept you, but need to learn more about what you're hoping to get out of this."
20:17:33 <alolita> and i know many of these folks / profs personally - so its important posse is successful for me :-) too
20:17:47 <alolita> quaid: i agree
20:18:05 <quaid> mchua: the bone is, "In particular, you focused on X yet POSSE is more about Y, and we want to be sure you are getting what you are looking for.  Can you comment on this further?"
20:18:11 <mchua> quaid: Agreed.
20:18:19 <quaid> ok
20:18:22 <mchua> I mean, I'm talking about a higher bar than "Get up to date on open source software
20:18:27 <alolita> good - i had contacted chris tseng at sjsu - glad he applied :-)
20:18:36 <mchua> as a response to "why do you want to get out of POSSE"
20:18:41 <mchua> er, what
20:18:58 <mchua> So yes, I agree with quaid's prompt.
20:19:13 <alolita> mchua: just looking at your apps and commenting :-) that i am glad sjsu is participating with chris tseng
20:19:31 <mchua> Anything further on POSSE Cali, other than I'm following up on apps, we're still waiting for Sameer's, recruitment continues (thank you both for your efforts there, btw!) ?
20:19:42 <mchua> I'm glad to see these applications!
20:19:54 <mchua> I think we may actually make it, we'll see on Thursday. :)
20:19:54 <alolita> let me email you and quaid - tony's appl responses which are very good
20:19:59 <mchua> ok, thanks!
20:20:03 <quaid> btw, I need to drop off in a few minutes
20:20:07 * mchua too
20:20:11 * Jeff_S waves
20:20:25 * quaid presenting on Open Your World Forum (opensource.com)
20:20:28 <mchua> alolita, we were going to talk about an OSCON workshop at some point, were there notes you wanted to share on that?
20:20:31 <mchua> hey Jeff_S!
20:20:43 <mchua> alolita: possibly over email (TOS list) since quaid and I both have to run?
20:20:51 * quaid gets to chill with Jeff_S next week
20:20:57 <Jeff_S> :)
20:22:39 <alolita> quaid, mchua: you should have received tony's appl
20:22:48 <quaid> k
20:23:21 <alolita> mchua: i emailed you the link to the OSCON workshop - did you get it?
20:23:39 <alolita> quaid: what email can i share the doc with you ?
20:23:42 <mchua> thanks, alolita. I note Tony's application says he won't be able to make the entire session and we should only run it if we have 5 applicants + him
20:23:57 <mchua> ...which we may, if the Stanford prof applies.
20:24:02 <alolita> mchua: i know - he likes to give you a challenge
20:24:08 <alolita> more profs the better :-)
20:24:20 <alolita> he wouldn't be at cmu otherwise would he :-)
20:24:55 <quaid> alolita: karstenwade@gmail
20:25:09 <alolita> ok quaid - thanks - let me share the doc
20:25:14 <mchua> alolita: got the OSCON workshop doc, is it ok to take to the TOS wiki so we can do a public comment process?
20:25:22 * mchua doesn't see anything private about it
20:25:29 <mchua> it's a curriculum outline proposal
20:25:35 * quaid kicks his imap
20:25:57 <alolita> mchua: there is nothing private at all - it was just my short cut way of doing the proposal first
20:26:03 <alolita> tos is very slow sometimes
20:26:10 <mchua> alolita: sounds great, I'll put it on the wiki and throw it to the list with my comments then
20:26:11 <alolita> pretty unusable as a editable wiki
20:26:17 <mchua> though I'll have to do that in a few hours since I have to jet soon
20:26:47 <alolita> karsten: can you see the doc
20:26:48 <mchua> alolita: Yeah, we do need to improve TOS's underlying infrastructure...
20:27:00 * mchua tries to throw it on the TOS wiki real quick
20:27:01 <quaid> thanks for the observations about the wiki speed, btw, good to hear other anecdotes.
20:27:07 <mchua> ctyler: we need to talk about TOS infra ^
20:27:54 <alolita> quaid: sorry about the slowness of the infrastr but its frustrating to wait for 5 minutes to get a response back on minor updates to a page :-)
20:28:05 <alolita> part of my reason for not being so active on the wiki
20:28:41 <alolita> mchua: are you posting the draft proposal on the wiki
20:28:43 <mchua> quaid, alolita: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Virtualization_community_workshop
20:28:48 <alolita> cool thanks!
20:28:54 <mchua> verbatim, I'll make my edits when I reach Boston
20:28:55 <mchua> in a few hours
20:29:04 <mchua> I have to run in 1 minute, anything else?
20:29:33 <alolita> i'm cool - i will be sending you appls as we keep getting more profs -
20:29:53 <alolita> look forward to your and quaid's comments and then we need to get jeff involved to review also
20:30:02 * mchua nods, thanks!
20:30:08 <mchua> I think quaid is off to teach his workshop now :)
20:30:09 <alolita> let's talk on tuesday then at 1pm pacific
20:30:13 <mchua> Yep, see you then!
20:30:16 * mchua wraps up logs, sends to list
20:30:18 <mchua> #endmeeting