20:08:23 <mchua> #startmeeting
20:08:23 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun  1 20:08:23 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:08:23 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:08:28 <mchua> I'll start logging anyhow...
20:08:31 <alolita> ok cool
20:08:43 * mchua pastes backlog, apologies for channel flood
20:08:44 <alolita> dr. white should be sending in appl today
20:08:46 <mchua> 20:05 < mchua> alolita: quaid just messaged, he's having lunch with Jeff_S - they will be online shortly
20:08:49 <mchua> 20:05 < mchua> he asked if we could wait for them - alolita, do you have a hard cutoff time today?
20:08:53 <mchua> 20:06  * Jefro sits corrected
20:08:55 <mchua> 20:06 < sdziallas> hi Jefro
20:08:58 <mchua> 20:06 < Jefro> hi sebastian!  hows things?
20:09:00 <mchua> 20:06 < alolita> mchua: i can wait but not too long - did they say when they can be available
20:09:04 <mchua> 20:06 < mchua> alolita: "shortly after 1"
20:09:06 <mchua> 20:07 < alolita> mchua: i see :-) i can be online till 130 - would that work
20:09:10 <mchua> 20:07 < alolita> mchua: i have pinged sameer and dr. white
20:09:12 <mchua> 20:07 < alolita> for apps
20:09:15 <mchua> 20:08 < alolita> mchua: sameer was out of town so said will send as soon as he's back
20:09:18 <mchua> Excellent.
20:10:44 <alolita> mchua: i have contacted santa clara university - the posse info has been circulated in the cs dept; i have also contacted some of the teachers directly
20:11:54 <sdziallas> Jefro: hiya! sorry, got pulled aside, I'm here now.
20:11:56 <alolita> mchua: so this week will be focusing on contacting more local campuses - major community colleges in south bay to get teachers
20:12:14 <sdziallas> Jefro: I hear we're supposed to talk at some point re LinuxCon in a meeting :)
20:12:40 <alolita> mchua: are there any applications we need to follow up on?
20:12:42 <mchua> alolita: excellent - I noticed in your email you listed 7 profs and I only see 6 applications so far - I think I listed Dr. Tseng under SFSU mistakenly
20:12:46 <Jefro> really?  cool!  let's chat separately so they can meet
20:12:51 <mchua> alolita: None yet, still waiting for replies, I'll reping.
20:13:05 <mchua> Jefro, sdziallas: we'll be done in 17 minutes
20:13:17 <Jefro> thanks mchua - we'll chat offline
20:13:28 <alolita> mchua: i think there was a error in recording :-) 6 instead of 7 right now
20:14:00 <mchua> alolita: which is tight, because Tony can't make the entire session so we really need 5 that aren't him.
20:14:01 <alolita> mchua: i had a question about the program - are we still doing the UI bug session
20:14:47 <alolita> mchua: i agree - i am hoping that we can get at least a couple more profs from the community colleges also
20:15:09 <mchua> alolita: No, Karsten and I will change that to a more recent Fedora-specific bug that's active when the POSSE week arrives.
20:15:31 <alolita> mchua: ok that's cool - will you update the program?
20:15:36 <mchua> alolita: Yep.
20:15:41 <alolita> mchua: cool.
20:15:48 * mchua just called quaid, can't get through yet (phone network issues)
20:16:05 <alolita> mchua: switching gears onto the virt session at mini posse
20:16:17 <alolita> i read your comments - thanks for taking a look
20:16:29 <alolita> i agree that day 2 and 3 can be swapped
20:16:53 <mchua> I think quaid had some thoughts on the mini posse session - if he's not back in time, we'll ask him to send those to the list.
20:16:55 <alolita> i think jeff s said he was going to forward the page url to his team at osl
20:16:59 * mchua nods
20:18:15 <alolita> mchua: that's cool - i am glad he has some ideas about the program; while i do agree with you that it takes time to go through the community/communications sessions; i think we should assume a certain level of knowledge for such a program
20:18:35 <quaid> alolita, mchua : hello
20:18:43 <alolita> quaid: hi! welcome
20:18:45 <mchua> quaid: hey! do you need backscroll?
20:18:48 <quaid> sorry I'm late, it's the lunch window at this conference
20:18:52 <quaid> nope, I'm reading right now
20:19:42 <mchua> #info 5.5 potential attendees (still waiting for apps from 2, need resubmitted apps from 2)
20:19:45 <alolita> the open source lab folks have quite a bit of immersion in doing open source
20:21:31 <alolita> mchua: do you want me to send email to the 2 teachers to re-submit responses to some of the questions?
20:22:01 <mchua> alolita: Sure, if you could cc myself and quaid on those that'd be great.
20:22:20 <alolita> mchua: will do with cc's
20:23:53 <alolita> quaid: did you have a chance to talk with jeff sheltren on the mini posse proposal
20:24:24 <mchua> quaid: alolita has to go in 6m, so we should wrap up here soon :)
20:24:40 <quaid> alolita: if any of the schools you are talking to are on our list for having been contacted, definitely go ahead and follow up with them
20:25:06 <alolita> ok - i will update the tos page - also
20:25:37 <quaid> ok, I'm up
20:26:03 <quaid> I guess I should follow-up on list about the mini-event
20:26:24 <quaid> to summarize - reading the first draft alolita did sparked a different set of ideas in my head:
20:26:31 <alolita> good
20:26:41 <quaid> * shorter info sessions to get 1:1 / 1:3 with teachers to explain why POSSE matters
20:26:53 <quaid> (since it seems that is a barrier of understanding that many need to be helped over?)
20:27:14 <quaid> * taking over the Fedora booth for the expo floor time to run 15 min edu Q/A/lighting talks
20:27:26 <alolita> quaid: that's a good idea - i think it would if we could even do a 5 minute lightning talk style video
20:27:28 <quaid> #info OSL interested in talking at lighting talks
20:28:05 <quaid> alolita: what I saw in that first draft was that a piece of the content introducing new technology wasn't neccesarily something unique that we had to offer, while the bits about teaching open source participation is the unique, compelling stuff
20:28:19 <quaid> but how do we show people they should be compelled by it, if they don't immediately see why?
20:28:20 <alolita> quaid: great idea to do 15 minute lightning talks at the oscon fedora booth
20:28:52 <quaid> thus - lightning talks, etc.-- also, Mel and I have that talk on Wed "5 important things that happened in education", so all these podiums
20:29:29 <quaid> so I was wondering if we wanted to put more effort in having a "guerilla education summit" at OSCON instead of doing a one-off 2-day bootcamp just after/before
20:29:45 <quaid> would we get in front of more eyes with the guerilla mini-summit?
20:29:55 <quaid> or would we lose depth that 2 days get us? I'm not sure ...
20:30:07 <quaid> and thus a topic for the list, to get opin from other educators.
20:30:24 <alolita> quaid: i look at it as getting as many eyeballs as possible - we never lose depth
20:31:00 <alolita> we focus our topic areas
20:31:24 <alolita> and then get folks to do the week long hands-on class with posse's current format
20:32:06 <alolita> quaid: i think a guerilla education summit is a good idea but organizing time is tight at this point
20:32:58 <alolita> quaid: can you elaborate on what a guerrilla education summit would focus on
20:33:20 <mchua> well, if both the OSU workshop and the OSCON lightning talks are geared towards getting people interested in a full POSSE - I'm not sure we need 2.5 full days at OSU, then... why not a lunchtime info session instead?
20:33:45 * mchua making a somewhat radical proposal here, based on percieved goals from this discussion
20:34:07 <alolita> mchua: at oscon that may make sense
20:34:39 <alolita> mchua: however from my feedback from silicon valley schools - they would like specialized topics in a posse like program
20:35:49 <alolita> so it may not be a 1 off for oscon ; if our focus is oscon right now then going after fedora booth edu sessions and a info session at lunch time are all good
20:37:13 <alolita> mchua: i will have to break off at 145 (max)
20:37:41 * mchua nods
20:38:04 <alolita> mchua: it looks like you would like to keep a full POSSE format and have info sessions to gather people into it - which works for a conference :-)
20:38:41 <mchua> alolita: I'd like to keep a full POSSE format... I think 2.5 days works for technical skills training, but isn't enough time for community immersion, just because of the speed at which some of these conversations need to move.
20:38:56 <mchua> alolita: I'm also a little nervous that neither of us (afaik) are actually virt hackers ourselves
20:39:10 <alolita> however the universities who are not at such a conference - how do we get them involved?
20:39:30 <mchua> so I'm not sure whether, if the goal is "silicon valley area professors are interested in technical skills acquisition," it might make more sense to just try and get a developer to give a tech talk at one of the unis
20:39:33 <alolita> understood - so our mantra is open source participation
20:40:02 <mchua> alolita: Slowly. :) I think this is something we start building locally over a period of 2-3 years. It'l take longer to get more traction than a few professors.
20:40:11 <mchua> Academia moves at a pace that's very different from the FOSS world.
20:40:34 <mchua> basically, I'm interested in working with those who are already interested - at least in the beginning - no matter who they are or where they're from.
20:40:52 <alolita> mchua: i know :-) but you still have to intersect with faculty goals in order to have them participate
20:40:55 <mchua> focus on making those folks succeed. And then once they do, a few others will start looking at them and trying to figure out how to replicate that work.
20:41:23 <mchua> alolita: Right, but we don't need more than a few more each time - I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should look for profs whose goals are already aligned with ours
20:41:33 <mchua> because they are out there, we just didn't look for them early enough this time.
20:43:24 <alolita> mchua: well - the profs exist at diff levels and we have been scouring for them in the last 3 months - however i agree that different layers exist and such an activity to scour the ecosystem and work with teachers to come to a POSSE needs more organized resources
20:43:34 <mchua> alolita: I know you have to go now, though - when do we need a go/no-go on the virt workshop by?
20:44:21 <alolita> mchua: we should do it by next week since the later we introduce it to osu ; the slimmer the chances of it happening around oscon
20:44:38 <mchua> I think we're set on POSSE - the go/no-go for that is Thursday, so it's just aggressive pinging 'till then, and you and quaid and I all know what we need to do.
20:44:55 <mchua> if we need to pick up the phone and call people, that's what needs to happen.
20:45:09 <alolita> mchua: yes - that is Thursday
20:45:35 <alolita> quaid: did you hear back from the colleges you emailed?
20:46:14 <alolita> can we get some of the osl folks to be at the calif posse if they don't do a mini posse around oscon
20:46:21 * quaid gets network back
20:46:39 <alolita> we should try to maximize our reach (to the extent possible) in the month we have now
20:46:56 <mchua> alolita: that would be great, if OSL folks are interested!
20:47:59 <alolita> i can send them an invitation to attend posse in california if we are sure we don't want to do any thing else with osl at oscon
20:48:22 <quaid> I haven't heard back from any schools that I mass mailed.
20:48:29 <mchua> alolita: I think we should send them an invitation regardless, but sure. :)
20:48:41 <mchua> quaid: that's ok - cold calling is a long shot, and the template emails are reusable for later (and very good!)
20:48:44 <mchua> thanks for doing that.
20:48:45 <alolita> mchua: ok i will send an invite then
20:48:50 * mchua is a fan of planting seeds for later, in any case.
20:48:54 <mchua> alolita: thank you!
20:48:56 <alolita> quaid: i agree cold calling will not help
20:49:06 <mchua> Really, education is a long-term game... it's the sort of thing that takes several years to even get started.
20:49:19 <mchua> which, for me, is a difficult mindshift, being from the FOSS world where 6 months is an eternity.
20:49:25 <quaid> well, I think one of the people (O'Brien) might have come from that sweep.
20:49:59 <alolita> mchua: yes but there are lots of short term engagement steps - nothing works long term (in my experience) if there is nothing short term with it
20:50:03 <alolita> even in education
20:50:13 * mchua agrees.
20:50:55 <alolita> so think of engagement - constant engagement - its always ends up being long -term in terms of iterative development :-)
20:51:44 <alolita> so anyway - i should have more progress to report on thursday - i better buzz off now - quaid do send your ideas on activities around oscon so that we all can help
20:52:03 * mchua has to jet
20:52:21 <alolita> mchua, quaid: ttyl then! bye!
20:53:08 <mchua> #endmeeting