19:01:16 <mchua> #startmeeting
19:01:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul  6 19:01:16 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:01:39 <mchua> #meetingname POSSE weekly meeting
19:01:39 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'posse_weekly_meeting'
19:01:57 <mchua> #info Midsummer pause to assess where we are - what are the highest priority things to do for POSSE?
19:05:44 <mchua> #topic POSSE RIT and Worcester follow-up
19:05:52 <mchua> First things first...
19:06:05 <mchua> #action mchua make sure finances (payments, expenses, etc) are taken care of
19:06:54 <mchua> #action mchua pass through blogs, notes, etc. from POSSE RIT and Worcester and update their respective POSSE wiki pages into being an archive
19:07:26 <mchua> #action mchua email each POSSE list wrt followup plans for individual professors
19:07:39 <mchua> #action mchua and lmacken kick off Fedora Community FAD planning at RIT (October?)
19:08:01 <mchua> #action mchua inquire about Worcester hackfest planning (Sugar-based?)
19:08:32 <mchua> #action mchua summarize POSSE Worcester and RIT into an osdc/edu article
19:08:45 <mchua> I think that's all, minimalistically speaking, for those two POSSEs.
19:08:58 <mchua> #topic Upcoming POSSEs
19:09:55 <mchua> #action mchua confirm visa, instructors for POSSE China
19:10:00 <JonathanD> Hi mchua
19:10:04 <JonathanD> I'm watching :)
19:10:08 <JonathanD> for what it's worth.
19:10:34 <mchua> #action mchua get applications, make attendees list for POSSE China, send out pre-POSSE account creation assignments
19:10:38 <mchua> Hey JonathanD!
19:11:53 <mchua> #info One area of concern - it sounds like some applicants to POSSE China will need translation... I would *love* to have a Mandarin-speaking POSSE, but I do not think that our instructors can handle it well right now (i.e. Harish and I speak English). Particularly since the point of POSSE is community engagement, and the Chinese-speaking Fedora community is not very large, so that's a limited opportunity to participate.
19:12:53 <mchua> #action mchua to address with POSSE China organizers the question of language/translation
19:13:30 <mchua> #idea aim for a Chinese-language POSSE next summer, and use the interim time to build a Chinese-speaking community with bilingual participants from this year's POSSE plus the existing Chinese community in Fedora
19:14:07 <mchua> That's one thought, anyhow.
19:14:15 <mchua> paulproteus, JonathanD: any ideas on how to bridge the language gap?
19:15:09 <paulproteus> With humans (-;
19:15:39 <ganderson> mchua: VERY pie-in-the-sky, but I remember seeing a live translate kinda thing being demo'ed in Google Wave.  Not sure if it's easy to setup and what not.
19:15:39 <paulproteus> The most important thing is to have English-only participants see the work done by the mostly-or-only-Chinese-speaking participants is good work.
19:16:23 <mchua> paulproteus: I'm more worried about how the Chinese-speaking participants will meet people and ask questions.
19:16:29 <mchua> ganderson: Ooo, we could possibly pull out lingobot again.
19:16:30 * mchua hunts
19:16:50 <ganderson> mchua: http://lingobot.translated.net/
19:17:08 <mchua> #link https://fedorahosted.org/lingobot/
19:17:11 <mchua> ganderson: oh whoa, more than one?
19:17:13 * mchua looks
19:17:34 <mchua> ganderson: ...huh! okay, different thing - web instead of IRC - but that's also good to know.
19:18:32 <mchua> Hey, KarlieRobinson!
19:19:19 <KarlieRobinson> hey mc
19:19:22 <KarlieRobinson> mchua:
19:19:23 <KarlieRobinson> grr
19:19:28 <KarlieRobinson> like I've never used IRC before
19:19:37 <KarlieRobinson> must be the heat
19:19:45 <mchua> KarlieRobinson: heh, it's okay - just figuring out the POSSE todos here
19:19:57 <KarlieRobinson> I just got home from a meeting
19:20:05 <JonathanD> hi KarlieRobinson
19:20:07 <KarlieRobinson> I have another training assignment right after LinuxCon
19:20:11 <KarlieRobinson> Ji JonathanD
19:20:13 <mchua> #action mchua check on POSSE Malaysia, Philippines, South Africa
19:20:13 <KarlieRobinson> hi]
19:20:22 <mchua> I think those three are the outstanding ones...
19:20:24 <KarlieRobinson> good lord, I need to get my fingers fixed
19:20:27 <mchua> #action mchua start discussions on POSSE Pakistan and Dubai
19:20:36 <JonathanD> KarlieRobinson: blame your keyboard instead ;)
19:20:38 <mchua> (those are very new - interest from a workshop last week, we should hit TOS with them)
19:21:02 <mchua> #action mchua and quaid reopen POSSE California discussion for Summer 2011
19:21:15 <mchua> #action mchua talk with jadudm, mizmo about POSSE Design in Summer 2011
19:22:10 <mchua> #action mchua publish draft calendar for Summer 2011 POSSE planning
19:22:25 <mchua> #idea Announce locations by January 2011, heavy publicity around SIGCSE (March 2011, iirc)
19:23:16 <mchua> Really, I'm mostly concentrating on China atm since it's coming up. The next one is South Africa.
19:23:30 <mchua> I haven't heard from folks in the Philippines for quite some time so I'm not sure if they're still interested, should follow up.
19:23:44 <mchua> And possibly a POSSE planning checklist would be a good thing to have to keep track of all of this.
19:23:48 <mchua> Which brings us to...
19:23:50 <mchua> #topic POSSE infrastructure
19:24:02 <mchua> #action mchua and ianweller to design and prototype a registration system for POSSE next week
19:24:13 <mchua> #action mchua write a POSSE planning checklist for upcoming POSSEs to use
19:24:33 <mchua> #topic POSSE curriculum
19:24:35 <mchua> This is the interesting one.
19:25:01 <mchua> #info For backstory, I was at a curriculum design workshop last week - most of the attendees were professors looking to change their curriculum in a specific way
19:25:05 <mchua> #link http://i2e2.olin.edu/summer2010/program.php
19:25:34 <mchua> #info We got some very concrete feedback/guidance on curriculum design, and I also got a chance to see what a workshop for professors looks like (although apparently this one was far more interactive than usual; it tends to be more lecture-ish than what we experienced)
19:25:55 <mchua> I plan on redoing the POSSE curriculum using that method.
19:26:02 <mchua> Starting with China.
19:28:14 <mchua> Out in the open, as usual, with notes on what the method is and how we're trying to apply it, so everyone can fix all my mistakes. :)
19:29:07 * mchua thinks about what the first step to doing that would be
19:29:29 <JonathanD> The china problem is interesting.
19:29:34 <mchua> Probably outlining the design thinking methodology I'm using. :)
19:29:47 <mchua> JonathanD: Yeah, it's also something we ran into the first time we did a POSSE in Singapore.
19:29:55 <JonathanD> I have a friend who works in china half the time and in the US half the time.
19:30:05 <JonathanD> He is Chinese.
19:30:09 <JonathanD> I wonder if he would have any ideas.
19:30:27 <mchua> Tech-skills wise, the attendees were *awesome* - but the cultural differences made it really hard to explain how the communities work, because FOSS is so different from the way schooling is set up there.
19:30:32 <mchua> JonathanD: That would be awesome.
19:30:47 <JonathanD> I'll try to get you in touch.
19:30:51 <mchua> It took until Wednesday to really get them using IRC - whereas at RIT and Worcester folks were in channel by the end of Monday.
19:30:55 <mchua> JonathanD: Thanks!
19:30:59 <JonathanD> the multi-cultural life he's lived may be helpful.
19:31:09 <mchua> #action JonathanD to get mchua in touch with friend with both China/US experience
19:31:11 <JonathanD> good chance to get back in touch anyway, I've not talked to the guy in a year.
19:31:29 <mchua> JonathanD: Definitely. I try to do a bit of it myself, but... I'm not very good at it, having grown up in the US and not actually being fluent in Mandarin.
19:31:48 <mchua> I can catch a basic understanding when I hear it spoken, but not enough to follow technical content, and definitely not enough to speak it well myself.
19:33:00 <JonathanD> good, I do still have his emali.
19:33:03 <JonathanD> ok, working on it :)
19:33:11 <mchua> Thanks!
19:33:18 <JonathanD> np
19:33:21 <mchua> Er, so where were we?
19:33:22 <mchua> Ah right.
19:33:37 <mchua> #action mchua outline design thinking methodology she's putting the POSSE curriculum through
19:34:05 <mchua> #info There's a process for designing good learning experiences, just like there's a process for releasing good software... we should follow it!
19:35:54 <mchua> #idea get education students to look at the design of the POSSE curriculum itself to see whether we're meeting our stated learning objectives
19:36:08 * mchua feels like there's a giant firehose in her brain that she needs to pull out into words here
19:36:30 <mchua> I totally failed at "release early, release often" and "think out loud" over the entire month of June... I did all this thinking about POSSE and didn't get my braindumps out
19:37:11 <mchua> I think that's nearly it.
19:37:13 <mchua> #info Workshop followup
19:37:31 <mchua> #topic Workshop followup
19:37:38 <mchua> (whoops)
19:37:50 <mchua> #info The workshop gave us some concrete suggestions to immediately improve the program
19:38:09 <mchua> #action mchua toss around the POSSE rocket pitch: read "Made To Stick" and apply it to the POSSE webpage
19:38:41 <mchua> #action mchua ask who's coming to FIE and get together a TOS dinner there, bring POSSE design to toss around
19:38:47 <mchua> (that's in October, in Kentucky)
19:39:02 <mchua> #link http://fie-conference.org/fie2010/
19:42:05 <mchua> #idea Think about grant applications for TOS activities and POSSE itself.
19:42:14 <mchua> #action mchua write an open blog post asking what that process is like
19:44:15 <mchua> Okay. What else?
19:44:36 <mchua> #action mchua follow up thanking workshop attendees for their suggestions, asking if the patches were applied correctly, and if anyone is interested in a POSSE next summer :)
19:45:05 <mchua> #topic alumni followup
19:45:29 <mchua> #action mchua list and follow up with each individual POSSE alumni on what their plans are for the school year - make class/project pairings
19:45:55 <mchua> So, the idea here is to pair a class with a FOSS community team... be that Mozilla QA or Fedora Docs or whatnot.
19:46:07 <mchua> And scaffold the participation from both sides.
19:46:25 <mchua> I think we'll have an intern working during the school year to facilitate this sort of thing, which will be cool.
19:46:31 <mchua> That's tentative, though, so we'll see how thta works.
19:46:33 <mchua> er, that works.
19:47:41 <mchua> There was also...
19:48:08 <mchua> #action mchua think about what we should do with TOS funding
19:48:45 <mchua> #info we have $8k of budget for TOS, how do we want to manage it and what do we want to use it on? sort of out of scope for the POSSE meeting, but infrastructure (hosting) is one thing POSSE needs
19:50:37 * Jeff_S watches mchua talk to herself :)
19:51:14 <Jeff_S> mchua: also OSL can most likely help with hosting.  maybe we should talk around OSCON?
19:54:28 <mchua> Jeff_S: Yes please!
19:54:36 <mchua> #action mchua and Jeff_S talk about TOS hosting during OSCON-ish
19:54:56 <mchua> Jeff_S: that would be great... I'd really like to get us more uptime especially since our traffic is only going to go up
19:55:07 <Jeff_S> great
19:55:22 <Jeff_S> I'll be around all week.  quaid had my number if we don't happen to just run into each other
19:55:28 <Jeff_S> s/had/has
19:55:32 <mchua> I think that's it. If I'm forgetting something it'll either be important enough to come up later, or isn't important. :)
19:55:35 <mchua> Jeff_S: noted!
19:55:46 <mchua> #topic POSSE priorities: what are our biggest problems to solve?
19:57:00 <mchua> #info Scaleability of curriculum - what *is* the POSSE experience? Right now it's too dependent on me being there to improvise (too much, actually) through everything.
19:57:38 <mchua> #info Shortage of instructors - may want to rethink instructor criteria... ctyler pointed out at RIT that the important part is actually "must have taught open source participation" rather than "is a POSSE alumni" - the two are not necessarily the same thing, esp. right now
19:58:42 <mchua> #info Lack of followup/support during the school year... what do professors need *after* POSSE? We're not keeping in touch very well to find out what we can do to help (we being the broader TOS/FOSS communities).
20:03:50 <mchua> That means the most important things to work on right now are:
20:04:12 <mchua> #info (1) Curriculum re-articulation, and testing that during POSSE China
20:04:57 <mchua> #info (2) Seeking out professors who *have* taught open source, and asking them if they are interested in instructing a 2011 POSSE - which will determine how many we can run, and with what FOSS communities/projects
20:05:40 <mchua> #info (3) Making sure we have a list of 2010-2011 school year game plans for all POSSE alumni who want to do something this school year
20:06:00 <mchua> ...and everything else is gravy. We'll run into funding bottlenecks, infrastructure issues, etc. later.
20:06:04 <mchua> That's all.
20:06:05 <mchua> Last comments?
20:06:14 * mchua is taking a long time to get her head on straight about this today, apologies
20:07:30 <mchua> I'll take that as a "we are finished," and start the workingness.
20:07:32 <mchua> Whee!
20:07:33 <mchua> #endmeeting