21:13:41 <mchua> #startmeeting
21:13:41 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 14 21:13:41 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:13:41 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:13:51 <paulproteus> Yes, slightly, argh, working on something else.
21:13:57 <mchua> #topic asheesh and mel oscon talk braindump
21:14:06 <mchua> paulproteus: No worries, I was just going to braindump here, so you can read it later
21:14:11 <paulproteus> thumbs up
21:14:14 <mchua> if you pop in and ask q's in the meantime, cool. :)
21:20:56 * mchua has been distracted by expense reports, one sec
21:25:31 <mchua> Oooookay! Braindumping shall commence.
21:25:53 <mchua> I'm going to ignore our actual talk abstract and what we talked about last time because I'm too lazy to find/read logs right now (or rather, don't have time) and just yammer off the top of my head.
21:25:57 <mchua> Junior jobs and bite-sized bugs.
21:26:03 <mchua> My personal perspective is from a few things:
21:26:12 <mchua> (1) participant in Fedora and Sugar Labs communities
21:26:18 <mchua> (2) "community person" for Red Hat
21:26:22 <mchua> (3) education geek
21:26:53 <mchua> So I tend to have a very edu-ish, meta-level view of things, as opposed to being a day-to-day coder myself (...at the moment, anyway - I used to do dev, not any longer, I may yet return someday.)
21:27:16 <mchua> And so I look at that and think "why am I interested in this topic?"
21:28:05 <mchua> and it's because from my perspective of (1) trying to grow FOSS communities and (2) trying to get academic institutions - and large numbers of students - participating in FOSS communities, we have some blockers (that JJ/BSBs look like a good solution for).
21:28:12 <mchua> I want to talk about
21:28:13 <mchua> * dreyfuss model
21:28:17 <mchua> * bloom's taxonomy
21:28:25 <mchua> (the wikipedia articles are good for both of them)
21:29:16 <mchua> * the fallacy of open source being "easy to start in" - it's... open for people to contribute to, but it doesn't mean it's easy
21:29:25 <mchua> we lose a lot of potential because the things we think *are* easy are *not* easy
21:29:28 <mchua> tools, etc
21:29:45 <mchua> see http://blog.melchua.com/2010/07/13/what-foss-communities-can-look-like-from-the-outside/ (2nd part re: irc)
21:29:58 <mchua> that convo was in here, so some of the folks from this channel (Jefro, notably) will remember it
21:30:41 * mchua tries to zoom into concrete things, tends to do very high-level overviews.
21:33:35 <mchua> How do we make FOSS participation scale? I think that's the question... how do we design experiences that can teach large numbers of people how to teach themselves how to have that sort of apprenticeship, immersive experience in a FOSS community?
21:35:02 <mchua> <JUNIOR JOBS AND BITESIZED BUGS GO HERE
21:35:08 <mchua> ok, what are these?
21:35:12 <mchua> <definition goes here>
21:35:15 <mchua> Let's prove they work.
21:35:23 <mchua> <case study of before/after or with/without them>
21:35:28 <mchua> (I can hunt for this data)
21:36:43 <mchua> (we're back in-meeting, I'm going to drop out again)
21:36:46 * mchua wraps up quickly
21:36:54 <mchua> and then...
21:36:58 <mchua> "how do you do this for your project?"
21:37:03 <mchua> <step-by-step guide + breakdown>
21:37:11 <mchua> I think there are some vital parts to jj/bsbs.
21:37:22 <mchua> first, the point is to *get* the newbie to interact with a community.
21:37:35 <mchua> which is a common fallacy - many of us have an engineering mindset, we are trying to automate people out of the system
21:37:41 <mchua> but the point here is to... almost automate people *in*
21:37:51 <mchua> because "newcomer is here!" is not a solved problem... each newcomer is a different opportunity.
21:37:54 <mchua> they can't be automated through.
21:38:34 <mchua> but we can provide this sort of scaffolding to make it more easy/likely that they'll hit a person.
21:38:46 <mchua> Because in the end, yes, you're trying to automate the boring stuff... *so* that you can spend more time *with people.*
21:38:59 * mchua jets to team meeting
21:39:01 <mchua> #endmeeting