11:12:46 <mchua> #startmeeting
11:12:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct  4 11:12:46 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
11:12:46 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
11:13:02 <mchua> #topic IRC/wiki lab exercise
11:13:04 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_South_Africa#Monday_deliverables
11:13:55 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Jadudm
11:14:40 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Jwildeboer
11:14:54 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Kpalmer
11:14:59 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Fardad
11:15:05 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Kwurst
11:15:51 <mchua> liknus: ^ examples of a broad range of user pages
11:16:34 <mchua> liknus:  One thing we could do is look at the source of these wiki pages to show people the syntax. I think we can start editing soon. :)
11:19:06 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php?title=User:Kpalmer&action=edit
11:19:12 <mchua> to see the source liknus is editing right now
11:19:32 <mchua> liknus: use jadudm's now :) or fardad
11:22:10 <mchua> View source (hit the "edit" button) for the links above in order to check out what syntax generates these pages.
11:22:18 <mchua> You'll start being able to infer a lot of wiki syntax from that alone.
11:22:42 <mchua> Another interesting thing to note about wikis - micadeyeye just noted that user pages would be useful for students to keep, so instructors can look at all their work and assignments.
11:22:46 <mchua> Wikis automatically track contributions.
11:22:50 <mchua> See: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php?title=User:Kpalmer&action=edit
11:22:53 <mchua> whoops.
11:22:56 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/Mchua
11:23:01 <mchua> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mchua
11:23:22 <mchua> #link http://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=FAmSCo_report_2010-07&diff=prev&oldid=192055
11:23:49 <mchua> #info You can look at an individual's contributions, as well as what one of their edits did.
11:24:05 <mchua> #info You can also look at the history of an individual page.
11:24:12 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=FAmSCo_report_2010-07&action=history
11:24:35 <micadeyeye> Hi guys, you could take a look at the POSSE SA page http://teachingopensource.org/index.php?title=POSSE_South_Africa&action=edit. it has all the commands/keys liknus (Pierros) is discussing.
11:24:52 <mchua> We'll go through that in a moment after everyone edits someone else's wiki page into being.
11:25:43 <gruntus> #link http://http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Gruntus
11:29:24 <mchua> Anyone need a partner?
11:30:04 <liknus> micadeyeye, you can see the history of the page to find out what happened :)
11:30:12 <liknus> who did it and why
11:30:13 <jwildeboer> Go, grab a partner
11:30:23 <mchua> micadeyeye: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=FAmSCo_report_2010-07&action=history for example
11:30:33 <mchua> micadeyeye: click on the "history" tab
11:30:39 <mchua> Who needs a partner?
11:30:42 <liknus> "why" part is the comments we fill every time we edit something
11:30:55 <michaelgraaf> yes I need a partner
11:31:10 <michaelgraaf> I have started my wiki page
11:31:10 <gruntus> have posted my page link guys - feel free to write
11:31:11 <jwildeboer> michaelgraaf: OK, I am yours :-)
11:31:22 <mchua> gruntus, match up?
11:31:26 <liknus> it is wise to fill out comments so the next person that see is it will know what happened
11:31:28 <jwildeboer> michaelgraaf: where's the URL?
11:31:36 <michaelgraaf> okay Jan do you have my page?
11:31:36 <gruntus> ok mchua
11:31:40 <mchua> micadeyeye, boniface, how about the two of you pair up?
11:31:42 <liknus> Anyone need a partner?
11:31:51 <boniface> ya we can
11:31:57 <jwildeboer> michaelgraaf: not yet, please post link here
11:31:58 <liknus> Or else I can give general directions :)
11:31:59 <gruntus> mchua is your link higher up this page?
11:32:00 <mchua> gruntus: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Mchua
11:32:03 <liknus> ok boniface I am yours
11:32:17 <liknus> boniface, you created the page?
11:32:18 <micadeyeye> can someone tell me about neophyte? I have been receiving emails from it (I guess it's a bot).
11:32:19 <liknus> link
11:32:24 <mchua> gruntus: So, uh... my page is really, really messy
11:32:26 <michaelgraaf> http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Michaelgraaf
11:32:51 <boniface> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php?title=User:Boniface
11:33:01 <jwildeboer> michaelgraaf: got it. Let's switch to private conversation to do cut'n'paste etc.
11:33:01 <mchua> gruntus: We can start with yours though - where can I find your faculty homepage?
11:33:03 <micadeyeye> liknus: neophyte did it. I used to think neophyte was Mel.lol!!
11:33:17 <boniface> Ok how do you split the page into two columns
11:33:33 <liknus> lol micadeyeye ... its not mel :) AFAIK
11:33:38 <mchua> liknus: since you're the only unpaired one here, if you can answer q's like ^ that would be awesome
11:33:48 <mchua> micadeyeye: I'm not neophyte, nope.
11:33:55 <liknus> ok mchua although I have boniface
11:34:07 <mchua> Oh, okay. micadeyeye, who are you paired with then?
11:34:30 <micadeyeye> mchua: no one yet.
11:34:34 <liknus> boniface, switching to privet channel
11:34:46 <mchua> micadeyeye: why don't you and gruntus work together, then? my wiki page is already there and pretty full
11:34:53 <mchua> gruntus: ^
11:35:05 <mchua> micadeyeye: I started at http://teachingopensource.org/index.php?title=User:Gruntus&action=edit
11:35:13 <micadeyeye> okay. gruntus, so i need to edit you wiki page. right?
11:35:28 <mchua> micadeyeye: The hard part is finding a way to get his attention if we're not allowed to signal him in the room...
11:36:02 <mchua> micadeyeye: You could always go ahead and start
11:36:34 <mchua> gruntus: Hey! So, micadeyeye also needed a partner
11:36:41 <mchua> so I asked if he could take my place and do your page.
11:36:57 <liknus> boniface, r u following our private chat?
11:37:04 <gruntus> ok go ahead - i was working on mchuas page
11:37:09 <mchua> (thanks gruntus!)
11:37:24 <mchua> So you folks will want to ask each other questions, share links - where do you teach, what do you do, what are you interested in, etc.
11:37:57 <liknus> Attention people! If two users are editing on the same time there is a conflict warning! So make sure you state in which article you are working
11:38:13 <mchua> liknus: I'm pretty sure we'll see that soon enough. :) if not we have a little time after the exercise is over to demo
11:38:26 <liknus> mchua, ok nice :)
11:38:32 <mchua> liknus: I'd check in on how people are doing at... say, 10 minutes to the hour?
11:38:38 <mchua> liknus: depending on how stuff looks
11:38:55 * mchua needs more water and to find the restroom, brb
11:39:15 <liknus> boniface, there is a possibility to have two columns page (it can be done with tables) but I suggest you start with simple formatting :)
11:39:23 <liknus> mchua, it's ok with me
11:39:34 * liknus is going also for some water
11:39:36 <boniface> ok
11:41:04 * liknus is back
11:41:22 <liknus> ok so boniface , make sure the links are alright
11:41:38 <liknus> remember when the link is internal you dint need the whole URL
11:41:47 <liknus> just the page title
11:42:36 <micadeyeye> hi guys, gruntus' page has some info in it. see http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/User:Gruntus
11:45:07 <gruntus> micadeyeye: when you say technical programming what do you mean?
11:47:36 <liknus> If you want to upload a file just go to http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Special:Upload
11:47:52 * micadeyeye is eating
11:48:04 <mchua> micadeyeye: omnomnom! :)
11:48:18 <liknus> Remember the categories I was talking? well Special is one of them
11:48:30 <liknus> with function pages like Upload Login etc
11:48:39 * micadeyeye cold though. but i have to.
11:48:41 <mchua> So, it is impossible to cover *all* of wiki syntax and wiki editing in one session.
11:48:42 <liknus> it all under Special: in every wiki
11:48:42 <jwildeboer> OK, Will gladly take pictures of all participants in front of the whiteboard to upload to User Profile page (if we can do that)
11:48:56 <liknus> mchua, just the basic
11:49:04 <mchua> However, there are resources you can use to learn more, on your own, later.
11:49:07 <mchua> #link http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting
11:49:13 <mchua> #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page
11:49:27 <mchua> #link http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMDOC/Cheatsheet
11:49:31 <liknus> jwildeboer, and I will complete that with the pics from the contact papers that we drew
11:49:38 <jwildeboer> mchua you know if/how we can upload pix to user page?
11:49:55 <mchua> jwildeboer: yep, we can put the file in as an attachment as usual.
11:50:02 <mchua> I wonder if that's too much for now, though, since we only have 10m left
11:50:03 <liknus> mchua, be warned that some of these stuff apply ONLY in wikipedia
11:50:16 <mchua> liknus: +1
11:50:19 <liknus> (not the mediawiki pages though)
11:50:48 <micadeyeye> we could upload a pix in mediawiki.
11:50:59 <liknus> mediawiki micadeyeye ?
11:51:02 <micadeyeye> am i getting something wrong here?
11:51:11 <liknus> you mean our wiki instance?
11:51:20 <micadeyeye> tos, i meant. i uses mediawiki.
11:51:30 * jwildeboer AFK for next 5 min
11:51:39 <liknus> mediawiki is the webapp (written in PHP) and we have one instance of it in TOS
11:51:50 <jwildeboer> mchua should we explain some of the acronym stuff typically thrown around in IRC?
11:51:51 <liknus> yeap micadeyeye , right :)
11:51:59 <mchua> jwildeboer: yes plz
11:52:05 <liknus> gladly jwildeboer :)
11:52:06 <mchua> jwildeboer: annotate at will in-channel
11:52:30 <jwildeboer> #note AFK - Away From Keyboard
11:52:36 <jwildeboer> #note BRB - Be r
11:52:45 <jwildeboer> #note BRB - Be Right Back
11:52:56 <liknus> #note AFAIK - As Far As I Know
11:52:56 <jwildeboer> #note AFAICS - As Far As I Can See
11:53:10 <jwildeboer> #note LOL - Lauging Out Load
11:53:13 <mchua> #note AFAICT - As Far As I Can Tell
11:53:31 <jwildeboer> #note YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary
11:53:40 * jwildeboer BRB
11:53:50 <liknus> #note RTFM - Read The Freaking Manual
11:54:39 <liknus> #note KISS - Keep It Stupid Simple
11:55:34 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/Mchua
11:55:53 <mchua> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mchua
11:55:55 <mchua> liknus: ^
11:57:00 <jwildeboer> #note UTSL - Use The Source, Luke ;-)
11:57:57 <mchua> vocabulary: "netiquette"
12:07:54 <jwildeboer> #link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette
12:08:03 <jwildeboer> #link http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
12:17:11 <mchua> #info Asynchronous and synchronous communication tools are *both* important.
12:19:09 <mchua> #info Don't top-post - start your reply *under* the email you're quoting, not above.
12:22:50 <mchua> #link http://planet.fedoraproject.org
12:23:15 <mchua> #link http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/~chris.tyler/planet/
12:23:26 <mchua> #link http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Planet
12:24:24 <jwildeboer> #link http://www.planetplanet.org/
12:24:34 <mchua> liknus: ^
12:24:41 <mchua> liknus: (can you open the seneca link, and planet TOS?)
12:25:41 <mchua> #info Hackergotchis are pictures of people who post on a Planet, so people can put faces to names.
12:25:58 <mchua> #info If you want a hackergotchi, email Pierros your picture.
12:31:09 <mchua> #topic search strategies
12:31:14 <mchua> #info Google is your friend.
12:31:28 <mchua> #info Look at mailing list archives, meeting (IRC) logs, wiki pages for a project.
12:31:54 <mchua> #info When you ask people for further info, point them to the things you've already found and tell them what you've already looked at.
12:32:13 <mchua> #info Oftentimes, asking "where should I ask this question?" will point you to the right place.
12:32:58 <mchua> #info Asking in the right place is just as important as asking the right question!
12:33:03 <mchua> #topic Mission
12:33:07 <mchua> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview
12:33:16 <mchua> #info "The mission is the community."
12:33:37 <mchua> #info Communities of Practice - people coming together because they work on/towards the same, or similar, things.
12:34:09 <mchua> liknus: ^ fedora mission statement here
12:38:04 <mchua> #topic Anatomy of a FOSS project
12:38:10 <mchua> #info this means 2 things - first, what's the governance model?
12:38:17 <mchua> #info second, how's the actual artifact structured?
12:41:24 <mchua> #topic asking good questions
12:41:57 <mchua> #info * What doesn't work?
12:42:01 <mchua> #info * What do you want to happen?
12:42:11 <mchua> #info * Prove to me that it doesn't work.
12:42:25 <mchua> #info * What have you tried so far and what has happened?
12:43:38 <mchua> #note Please, if you get an answer that works for you, share it with the rest of the community!
12:45:27 <mchua> #topic Feedback round
12:45:32 <mchua> #info Answer 2 questions:
12:45:37 <mchua> #info * Are we going in the right direction?
12:45:44 <mchua> #info * Is it different from what you expected?
12:46:08 <mchua> #info Jan: Yes, we're going in the right direction. This is chaotic, and it will get worse, but I think we're going to have a good time together.
12:47:04 <mchua> #info Pierros: Yes, we're going in the right direction. I was prepared to deal with crazy things this week, watch people learning how to learn.
12:48:10 <mchua> #info Michael A: I think we're on the right track, We got exposed to tools we can use later on, while teaching. Are we getting productively lost? Oh yeah.
12:48:59 <mchua> #info Boniface: We're going in the right direction. It's surprising how many ways you can use these tools to interact with students, i'm used to lecturing.
12:49:58 <mchua> #info Michael G: We're in the right direction, At the abstract level this is what I expected, but the details are unexpected.
12:50:42 <mchua> micadeyeye: I'm sorry, I didn't catch the names of the two folks who came in later... could you fill me in?
12:50:48 * mchua wants to write their notes too
12:52:42 <mchua> #info Grant: Laziness - I will say what everyone else did! Steep learning curve.
12:59:10 <mchua> #topic closing
12:59:40 <mchua> #info We'll be on this IRC channel tonight, feel free to come back and ask questions.
12:59:57 <mchua> #info Please email your first blog posts to the mailing list.
13:00:18 <mchua> #endmeeting