19:42:02 <mchua> #startmeeting
19:42:02 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct 18 19:42:02 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:42:02 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:42:06 <mchua> #chair ctyler
19:42:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler mchua
19:42:12 <mchua> #meetingname Seneca update
19:42:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'seneca_update'
19:42:17 <ctyler> So mchua ... update on what's up @seneca :-)
19:42:33 <mchua> \o/
19:42:34 <mchua> thanks ctyler!
19:42:58 <ctyler> Under the CDOT umbrella, we have several things happening: (1) courses (2) applied research (3) events
19:43:23 * mchua nods
19:43:38 <ctyler> In courses this semester, we have OSD/DPS, our traditional Open Source Development course. Dave's leading that as usual, but the enrollment is down.
19:43:39 <mchua> #link http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
19:43:55 <ctyler> Unfortunate side-effect of bad timeslot, I think.
19:43:57 <mchua> Enrollment being down == ongoing trend, or first time this has happened? do you know the cause?
19:44:00 <mchua> Oh, okay.
19:44:03 <mchua> So nothing really needing to worry about.
19:44:10 <ctyler> No, I don't think so.
19:44:38 <ctyler> We're just starting to see Fardad's open-source-aware students hits the professional option level, and anticipate higher interest there.
19:44:52 <mchua> +1
19:45:04 <mchua> Okay, and that's an experiment we're still waiting for the first results of here.
19:45:07 <ctyler> On the other hand, our game programming course is packed out, and Fardad's working there to incorporate open source concepts.
19:45:22 <ctyler> It's going pretty well, from the early reports.
19:45:23 <mchua> Fardad had them in what, sophomore year? And now they're juniors, which is when they'd start hitting professional option?
19:45:46 <ctyler> Fardad had them in Semester 2, and pro options usually start around semester 5.
19:46:19 <ctyler> (We use semesters rather than years because we have continuous intake - you can start at the beginning of any of the 3 semesters/year, and skip summers if you want)
19:46:31 <mchua> Ahhh.
19:46:31 <mchua> Okay.
19:46:32 <mchua> Gotcha.
19:47:01 <ctyler> So the counts are 12 OSD/DPS students and around 50 GAM students. This is on the software development side of the house.
19:47:30 <ctyler> On the other side of the house, we have networking and admin, and I have 28 students in my SBR Software Build and Release course working within open source projects.
19:47:55 <ctyler> About 3/4 Fedora and 1/3 Mozilla (with the overlap being a Fedora-Mozilla project)
19:48:06 <mchua> OSD = Open Source Development, DPS == ? GAM = Game Development?
19:48:48 <ctyler> OSD and DPS are the same thing, in 3-year diploma vs. 4-year bachelor programs.
19:49:03 <ctyler> GAM is Game Development, yes
19:49:14 <ctyler> http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/Fall_2010_SBR600_Project_Table
19:49:30 <mchua> Gotcha.
19:50:49 <ctyler> So we have a pretty keen group in SBR this semester. Some are working with Jesse Keating on adding unit tests to fedpkg, some others are about to start work with James Laska on Fedora AutoQA, we have a project to produce a Fedora-compatible nightlies/beta repo for Mozilla, and there's a Mozilla QA framework project too that's tied into buildbot.
19:50:58 <mchua> Oh my gosh.
19:50:59 <mchua> That's awesome.
19:51:31 <ctyler> Plus a number of Fedora-ARM projects, including device support for certain video and wireless systems, benchmarking thumb and v7 support, and doing some infra work on our build farm.
19:51:35 * mchua wonders what it would take to get a high-level "here's what Seneca is doing in Fedora" post each term - basically your last message expanded into 3-4 paragraphs with links
19:51:41 <mchua> s/last message/last 2 messages
19:52:04 <ctyler> It's on my list of blog backlog posts that I'm hoping to clear this week
19:52:55 <ctyler> So I'm really pumped about the SBR group this year, they're the best batch I've had so far (overall), looking forward to seeing how far they can go.
19:53:05 * mchua grins
19:54:13 <ctyler> In terms of applied research, we now have 12 employees -- co-op students, part-time students, and grads -- working on various projects partnered with external commercial partners.
19:55:00 <ctyler> This includes the processing.js work, popcorn.js, XBpointcloud, fedora-arm, and NexJ Express.
19:55:07 <mchua> by grads you mean graduate students, or students who have graduated from the program that are now CDOT staff?
19:55:26 <ctyler> Graduates from our program, in this case.
19:55:34 <mchua> and the part-time students are doing the applied research on FOSS for external commercial partners as... their study, or their work outside the part-time study?
19:55:45 <ctyler> No, as their work.
19:55:58 <ctyler> Many of these students were full-time with us through the summer
19:56:05 <ctyler> and are continuing part-time this semester
19:56:13 <ctyler> so we don't lose momentum
19:56:16 <mchua> Okay, so the graduates are 'I went through this program at Seneca and got my degree, and now this company is hiring me to work on FOSS as a CDOT staffer"?
19:56:26 <mchua> (er, imagine I actually used the right kinds of quotes to close things there.)
19:57:11 <mchua> And the part-time students are "I take classes in CDOT's academic program part-time, and the other part of my time I spend employed to work on FOSS for external commercial partners via CDOT"?
19:57:18 <mchua> basically, you folks are a contract house?
19:57:39 <ctyler> Not quite
19:57:56 <ctyler> The NSERC grant we received enables us to do "applied research" work
19:58:09 <ctyler> Each project there requires a commercial partner, and the partner+NSERC fund it.
19:58:28 <ctyler> Everything under the CDOT umbrella is 100% open source.
19:59:05 * mchua nods, following so far
19:59:22 <ctyler> The definition of "applied research" is new, and still a bit indistinct
19:59:46 <ctyler> There's a sense that CAATs and Universities, in our system, are different, but they're becoming more and more alike
20:00:07 <ctyler> So the Universities are doing more and more "applied" things, and we're doing more and more theoretical things
20:00:39 <ctyler> But since "applied research" isn't well defined, we're co-opting it to mean "Open Source" :-)
20:01:30 * mchua grins
20:01:34 <mchua> That's awesome.
20:01:48 <ctyler> Basically, this structure allows us to pursue open source things that are beyond the scope of what we can do in the classroom
20:02:11 <ctyler> And it feeds back into the classroom in a positive loop
20:02:36 <ctyler> Development of mentorship capacity, developer-in-residence type of relationships, etc.
20:03:10 <ctyler> Having the paid researchers here provides continuity for larger projects that we couldn't develop with semester-to-semester courses.
20:03:37 <mchua> That's a brilliant model.
20:03:47 <ctyler> It also provides co-op opportunities, and a chance for students to work closely with a larger number of people that are closely involved with upstreams.
20:05:01 <ctyler> In terms of the third thing I mentioned, which is events, we're growing that out a bit this year
20:05:15 <ctyler> In addition to FSOSS, we're holding the Level Up Game Jam
20:05:40 <ctyler> This will spotlight the open web technologies we've been developing, including WebGL libraries, web audio, and so forth.
20:06:19 <ctyler> We haven't explicitly targeted the extinction of Flash, but almost anything that needed flash previously (and a lot more) can now be done with fully open technologies
20:06:46 <ctyler> It also leverages our large GAM group and ties in to other schools within the college
20:06:55 <ctyler> (School of Communication Arts, Animation, etc).
20:07:31 <ctyler> As part of the Toronto Open Source Week, we're also hosting a FLOSS Manuals sprint.
20:07:37 <mchua> Awesome.
20:07:43 <mchua> Focusing on the stuff you've been working on?
20:07:50 <mchua> (Game Jam is also part of Toronto Open Source Week?)
20:07:55 * mchua realizes that's yet another TOSW acronym
20:08:05 <ctyler> Yes, LevelUp is part of TOSW
20:08:28 <ctyler> We're hosting but not organizing the manuals sprint.
20:08:59 <ctyler> Other stuff in TOSW (not hosted here) include AndroidTO, a VanillaForums event, and a FreeGeek meetup.
20:09:32 * mchua nods
20:09:45 <ctyler> FSOSS probably hit its peak in 2008, we're rebuilding (economic downturn!) and expect to really really ramp things up for the 10th anniversary next year.
20:09:45 <mchua> #link http://opensourceweek.ca/
20:09:51 * mchua grins
20:09:51 <mchua> Awesome.
20:09:56 * mchua will start reading backlog and doing
20:10:10 <mchua> some #note call-outs in the background, but please do keep going
20:10:24 <ctyler> So, that's what we've been up to, in a nutshell.
20:10:33 <ctyler> I'm pretty pumped about things.
20:11:06 <ctyler> In terms of challenges, we need to continue to grow this out within our own faculty.
20:11:20 <ctyler> We also need to get the word out about what we're doing.
20:11:22 * mchua nods
20:11:29 <mchua> The latter is one thing I definitely wanted to talk with you about.
20:11:37 <ctyler> Good things are happening on both those fronts (no public details yet :-)
20:11:51 <mchua> One thing we discussed before was doing a POSSE at Seneca, is that something whose time has come? Would it be helpful for the first thing you mentioned?
20:11:54 * mchua nods
20:11:56 <mchua> Okay.
20:12:08 * mchua sits back and listens first, sorry
20:12:19 <ctyler> It might be. Or maybe I need to get some of my colleagues to RIT or another POSSE :-)
20:13:27 <ctyler> That's is for the overview :-)
20:13:32 <ctyler> it*
20:13:50 * mchua nods
20:13:57 <mchua> Well, RIT is going for a POSSE again this year, so that's one option.
20:14:15 <mchua> But if there's enough Seneca interest, it might make sense to do a second... it's something that we'd want to support, either way.
20:14:16 <ctyler> I need to start talking it up early this year
20:14:18 <mchua> Anyhoo.
20:14:19 * mchua nods
20:14:28 <mchua> Yeah, I want things ready for registration by Jan 1st
20:14:35 <mchua> with a big recruitment push at SIGCSE.
20:14:55 <ctyler> Perfect.
20:16:38 <mchua> So you folks would need to decide before mid-December whether you wanted one or not at Seneca, or if you wanted to go for the one at RIT (since they've already decided they're pushing for it - I signed paperwork for campus space last week).
20:17:35 <ctyler> mchua: I think that encouraging attendance at POSSE RIT is the best approach for this academic year.
20:17:40 <mchua> I can make deadlines clearer and whatnot if it would help, but I think you probably don't need that.
20:18:07 * ctyler doesn't have bandwidth to arrange POSSE here for 2011.
20:18:26 <mchua> Okay.
20:18:31 <mchua> Yeah, *totally* understood.
20:18:53 <mchua> If there's someone at Seneca who'd like to, would be more than happy to work with them, but RIT seems like a perfectly fine option too.
20:18:56 <mchua> It's not that far across the pond.
20:19:01 <ctyler> Right.
20:19:06 <ctyler> You know what the big challenge is?
20:19:16 <ctyler> Getting people to go into the community.
20:19:19 <mchua> Yes.
20:19:29 <ctyler> They'll play all day on the edge, but not jump in.
20:19:45 <ctyler> No matter how warm the water!
20:20:20 <ctyler> We're finding some ways to get them started, but I'm also wondering if you need to stand on the shore for a while before you jump.
20:20:40 <ctyler> Time may be a bigger part of this than I've acknowledged.
20:21:38 <ctyler> At any rate, the community here is slowly expanding, and we have excellent top-down support.
20:22:11 <ctyler> Open Source has been identified as one of the college's top strategic directions, which was an important step forward for us.
20:22:21 <mchua> Wow.
20:22:22 <ctyler> Applied Research has also been classed the same way.
20:22:31 <mchua> I'd... love to hear more about how that happened someday.
20:22:40 <mchua> And yeah, I think lurking *is* important.
20:23:06 <ctyler> And ... Mike Shaver, Mozilla CTO, is on the college's Board of Governors now :-)
20:24:49 <mchua> zomg.
20:26:59 <ctyler> So that's about it for general update. Need to bring you here to see what we're doing, when it's convenient.
20:27:28 <mchua> Absolutely.
20:27:37 <mchua> Yeah, I'm really sorry about missing you guys this time.
20:27:48 <ctyler> No problem at all.
20:27:57 <mchua> I think planning for a longer trip spring semester with things queued up more strategically in advance would probably be a good idea.
20:28:05 <mchua> Whenever the timing would be best for you, essentially.
20:28:44 <ctyler> 2nd half of any semester beats the first half.
20:29:03 <mchua> So that would be "after mid-March" then?
20:29:19 * ctyler grabs calendar
20:29:42 <ctyler> After Mar 7
20:29:51 <ctyler> Before Apr 8
20:30:07 <ctyler> Or you could come for student OS project summaries in April
20:30:16 <ctyler> Presentations, poster sessions
20:30:16 <mchua> #note visiting Seneca in the spring term: best is between March 7 and April 8
20:30:26 <mchua> when's that?
20:30:57 <ctyler> Haven't set a date, but week of Apr 4 or 11 is likely.
20:32:36 <mchua> Cool beans.
20:33:02 <mchua> #note other visit date options: student OS project summaries, possibly week of April 4 or 11
20:33:21 <mchua> ctyler: (I'm starting to fade a bit - what else did you want to cover today?)
20:33:44 <ctyler> Also, you should pencil-in Oct 26-28 2011 for FSOSS big bash :-)
20:34:29 <mchua> #note Oct 26-28 is FSOSS w00tness
20:34:42 <mchua> I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it, but we should certainly at least send someone.
20:52:43 <mchua> #endmeeting