#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:00:19

!startmeeting Alterative Images (2024-07-11)

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

19:00:21

Meeting started at 2024-07-11 19:00:19 UTC

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

19:00:21

The Meeting name is 'Alterative Images (2024-07-11)'

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:00:25

!meetingname AltImages

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

19:00:26

The Meeting Name is now AltImages

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:00:31

!hi

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:00:32

!topic aloha

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:00:33

Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:00:39

Hi Michel Lind 🎩

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:01:10

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:01:12

Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:01:22

Hi Conan Kudo

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:01:49

Davide sends his regrets

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:02:19

I'll give him one more minute, cuz I need to look up one thing.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:03:26

!topic Latest News

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:03:42

We've had our quarterly release

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:04:19

It had a little drama, due to the buildroot being visible, and thus some weak dependencies were pulling in buildroot only packages.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:04:48

But that's been fixed, and the images all seem to be better.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:05:22

!link https://mirror.stream.centos.org/SIGs/9-stream/altimages/images/live/

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:06:09

I also updated our docs, so that it is more clear where to open bug issues, instead of SIG specific issues.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:06:22

nice

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:06:52

I've had to use weak dep for one of my EPEL packages, though I don't think it's included in any of our images

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:07:17

is that an existing issue (that people misfile bugs) or just anticipating it happening?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:07:35

I'm not against weak deps. It's just that the packages that were being pulled in, weren't in RHEL9 or epel9, and thus weren't upgradable.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:08:21

yup. agreed.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:08:37

Well, Carl filed a bug (which is how we found out this problem) with the SIG issues. https://pagure.io/centos-sig-alt-images/sig/issues And since this was a bug with the images, it should have been here - https://pagure.io/centos-sig-alt-images/spin-bugs/issues

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:08:39

(at work we cheat and just import the buildroot package, so the weak dep is useful)

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:09:11

if even Carl misfiled we know there's an underdocumented process :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:09:15

He had a good point, that our docs only pointed to the first issue area, so he had no way of knowing to file on the other.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:09:24

fortunately this didn't affect hyperscale... I checked to be sure after this

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:09:31

our image buildroots don't have the buildroot repo

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:09:39

but it was definitely good to check

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:09:41

oh the issue he filed is the weak dep thing

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:09:52

and it probably should be SOP that buildroot repos aren't used for image tags

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:10:35

should it be documented at the CentOS level? or in practice does it only affect Alt Images and Hyperscale so far

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:10:50

well in theory any SIG making images could be affected

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:10:54

so yeah, CentOS level

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:11:11

It possibly affects automotive, if they didn't catch it before now.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:11:13

e.g. maybe here https://docs.centos.org/en-US/stream-contrib/

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:11:28

well, probably the infra tag creation SOP

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:11:44

that's more of an arrfab thing

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:12:09

yeah. though we should help offload the knowledge in his head :)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:12:30

we should ask if he's got SOP docs :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:12:59

I'm betting he does. He seems like the type who does.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:13:40

Anyway, that's it from me for the past month, other than starting to get my Flock presentation ready.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:14:09

Anything else from the past month?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:14:44

!topic Whats Next

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:15:13

I wasn't able to do anything with Persistant data last month, so that is one of my goals for this month.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:15:23

I haven't had time to work on Hyperscale GNOME since RH Summit, but hopefully I can dabble with that and Neal can spin an image for DevConf US

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:15:39

need to also work on internal stuff and the stuff I'll be presenting at Flock first

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:16:07

I thought you already had a Hyperscale GNOME ... or was it still a work in process?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:16:17

work in progress

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:16:25

Yep, getting my presentation ready for Flock

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:16:35

we're really going to need hyperscale gnome for 10 since gnome in 10 is so barebones

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:16:40

I'd really like to get persistant data ready in time for Flock.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:16:45

so getting this figured out with 9 is going to be really helpful

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:16:48

work in progress - most of the libraries are there so I need to push a bit more to get to GNOME Shell

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:17:03

so yeah for c9s it's really just a proof of concept, and we'll need it for real for 10

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:17:32

oh huh ... at some point we should have an eln extras workload for this too

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:17:37

I noticed that you were getting images started for hyperscale 10 ... do we want to do that for altimages 10 ?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:17:55

we have not started because epel is still not populated

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:17:55

I guess I could do a GNOME and a MIN image.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:18:24

we're getting the foundational packages in hyperscale going now, but we need Carl George's work for epel10 to progress enough that at flock we can get kiwi and kde in

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:18:41

if we can pull that off, then we can produce our first c10s images at flock

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:18:54

Very cool.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:19:42

that will also help for altimages of course

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:19:50

since we need kiwi in epel for it :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:20:17

Hmm ... having Fabian on PTO for ... most of the time leading up to FLOCK means I probrubly won't be able to get the 10 stuff available for alt-images-10

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:20:37

Oh ... ya ... HA! ... forgot about kiwi

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:21:23

But couldn't the builders running, whiatever they are running, and using kiwi, be able to build a 10 image? Does kiwi have to be on 10?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:21:36

it's a koji restriction

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:21:43

we can absolutely build from 9 for 10 locally

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:21:57

Ah ... ok

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:22:09

koji imposes the "host"="target" thing

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:22:26

since it creates a mock root for the target distribution and then runs kiwi in it to build images for that distribution

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:22:41

That's good to know. Then I'll be patient until we get it into epel10.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:23:05

for us in hyperscale, the main blocker is kde

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:24:02

Ya. I ran into a blocker when building in COPR. There were several qt6-devel packages missing. I opened a ticket, and Jan put them in (I think, I'll have to check), but I haven't had time since that.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:24:48

I was hoping that the ELN workload stuff would make it easier to ensure all the needed packages are available from CentOS Stream to build KDE

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:24:56

I gave him a list of 5 missing packages, he turned around and went, oh, and here is this other 25 that should have been in.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:25:10

are the ELN workload stuff used internally at RH to determine what is needed in CRB? curious

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:26:19

It's supposed to be, but ELN and what is in the different repo's has been ... not consistent / very manual ... hard.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:27:02

personally I am of the opinion we might as well put everything not in a higher-level repo into CRB :P

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:27:20

but there might be some business context I'm missing about the application guarantees

<@smooge:fedora.im>

19:28:35

CRB decisions are 'special' due to the application guarentees and other concerns

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:28:54

Ya. There used to be a business statement that limited what went to CRB. Now it's up to the maintainers. Which is why Jan put (tried to put, still have to check) everything qt6 into the release.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:29:44

maybe we need a repo below CRB that's the equivalent of Ubuntu's 'universe'

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:29:58

"these are packages we built for you out of the goodness of our hearts but no guarantees there"

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:30:08

AG level 5 :P

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:31:33

Sorry for the pause, I just checked, and the qt6 is now in CS10, so I'm good to go.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:32:03

sweet

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:32:15

Anyway, is we were sorta off-topic (sorta) ... is there any other Alt Images things we needed to talk about?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:32:33

If/When I get the Peristant media stuff working, will you be using it in Hyperscale?

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:32:38

yes

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:32:47

fedora and hyperscale will both use it

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:33:14

Cool

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:33:16

I intend to switch Fedora KDE artifacts to kiwi for F42, because lorax's bugs on arm are blocking the ability to make those artifacts release-blocking

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:33:48

some feature development in kiwi upstream is nearly complete, and I have to do work in koji on the kiwi plugin for it, and finally probably some pungi work too

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:34:11

You are already using it on Ahashi aren't you ? (kiwi I mean)

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:34:14

yes

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:34:26

Cloud and Asahi both use kiwi now in Fedora

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:35:48

the work I'm doing on this stuff aligns with some other work I have to do, so it's nice to be able to kill so many birds with one stone

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:36:14

lol

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

19:36:17

thanks for the quick resolution on that weak dep thing, and updating the docs to reference the spin issue tracker

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:36:25

on the other hand they keep pooping on my clothes and cars so... screw them

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:36:31

that too :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:36:50

Carl George: You are very welcome. Thank you for finding that bug. It hopefully fixes the one other bug we have.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

19:37:22

technically i didn't find it, Jens Petersen did and brought it up in #centos:matrix.org

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

19:37:37

i just got nerd snipped and dug into the root cause 😀

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

19:37:54

https://xkcd.com/356/

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:38:29

I know all about nerd sniping 😅

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:38:31

ooh there's a centos group on matrix

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

19:39:08

it's a random channel, i have no idea who made it. it originally had the old logo, and i messaged the mod to update that. they never replied but they did switch the logo.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:39:20

huh. I'll stay away from it then

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

19:39:59

doesn't hurt anything to idle and discover problems being talked about

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:40:06

Oh ... so it's matrix.org, not fedora's matrix then.

<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>

19:40:32

yup

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:40:41

it doesn't hurt, but I'm in too many groups already :)

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:40:44

That explains why I didn't know about it.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:41:43

Anyway ... I feel like I just got nerd sniped .... bringing things back to Alt Images ... anything else that anyone wants to bring up?

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:41:53

!topic Open Floor

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:42:59

I think I'll see ya'll at Flock.

<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>

19:43:08

Nothing from me. Looking forward to seeing y'all at Flock!

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:43:15

Even Robby Callicotte should be there I think.

<@salimma:fedora.im>

19:43:18

same. well, at EPEL next week too

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:43:49

True, various different meetings, but physically seeing people is always nice.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:44:20

Then I'm going to close this a big early this month.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:44:34

Thank you all for the good discussions.

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:44:43

Talk to you at Flock, if not sooner.

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

19:44:51

salimma has already given cookies to tdawson during the F40 timeframe

<@tdawson:fedora.im>

19:45:02

!endmeeting