2024-07-11 19:00:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !startmeeting Alterative Images (2024-07-11)
2024-07-11 19:00:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-07-11 19:00:19 UTC
2024-07-11 19:00:21 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'Alterative Images (2024-07-11)'
2024-07-11 19:00:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !meetingname AltImages
2024-07-11 19:00:26 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now AltImages
2024-07-11 19:00:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2024-07-11 19:00:32 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic aloha
2024-07-11 19:00:33 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2024-07-11 19:00:39 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Michel Lind 🎩 
2024-07-11 19:01:10 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> !hi
2024-07-11 19:01:12 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
2024-07-11 19:01:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hi Conan Kudo 
2024-07-11 19:01:49 <@salimma:fedora.im> Davide sends his regrets
2024-07-11 19:02:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll give him one more minute, cuz I need to look up one thing.
2024-07-11 19:03:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Latest News
2024-07-11 19:03:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> We've had our quarterly release
2024-07-11 19:04:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It had a little drama, due to the buildroot being visible, and thus some weak dependencies were pulling in buildroot only packages.
2024-07-11 19:04:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But that's been fixed, and the images all seem to be better.
2024-07-11 19:05:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !link https://mirror.stream.centos.org/SIGs/9-stream/altimages/images/live/
2024-07-11 19:06:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I also updated our docs, so that it is more clear where to open bug issues, instead of SIG specific issues.
2024-07-11 19:06:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> nice
2024-07-11 19:06:52 <@salimma:fedora.im> I've had to use weak dep for one of my EPEL packages, though I don't think it's included in any of our images
2024-07-11 19:07:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> is that an existing issue (that people misfile bugs) or just anticipating it happening?
2024-07-11 19:07:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm not against weak deps.  It's just that the packages that were being pulled in, weren't in RHEL9 or epel9, and thus weren't upgradable.
2024-07-11 19:08:21 <@salimma:fedora.im> yup. agreed.
2024-07-11 19:08:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Well, Carl filed a bug (which is how we found out this problem) with the SIG issues.  https://pagure.io/centos-sig-alt-images/sig/issues   And since this was a bug with the images, it should have been here - https://pagure.io/centos-sig-alt-images/spin-bugs/issues
2024-07-11 19:08:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> (at work we cheat and just import the buildroot package, so the weak dep is useful)
2024-07-11 19:09:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> if even Carl misfiled we know there's an underdocumented process :)
2024-07-11 19:09:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> He had a good point, that our docs only pointed to the first issue area, so he had no way of knowing to file on the other.
2024-07-11 19:09:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> fortunately this didn't affect hyperscale... I checked to be sure after this
2024-07-11 19:09:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> our image buildroots don't have the buildroot repo
2024-07-11 19:09:39 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> but it was definitely good to check
2024-07-11 19:09:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh the issue he filed is the weak dep thing
2024-07-11 19:09:52 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> and it probably should be SOP that buildroot repos aren't used for image tags
2024-07-11 19:10:35 <@salimma:fedora.im> should it be documented at the CentOS level? or in practice does it only affect Alt Images and Hyperscale so far
2024-07-11 19:10:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well in theory any SIG making images could be affected
2024-07-11 19:10:54 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so yeah, CentOS level
2024-07-11 19:11:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It possibly affects automotive, if they didn't catch it before now.
2024-07-11 19:11:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> e.g. maybe here https://docs.centos.org/en-US/stream-contrib/
2024-07-11 19:11:28 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> well, probably the infra tag creation SOP
2024-07-11 19:11:44 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that's more of an arrfab thing
2024-07-11 19:12:09 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah. though we should help offload the knowledge in his head :)
2024-07-11 19:12:30 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we should ask if he's got SOP docs :)
2024-07-11 19:12:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm betting he does.  He seems like the type who does.
2024-07-11 19:13:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anyway, that's it from me for the past month, other than starting to get my Flock presentation ready.
2024-07-11 19:14:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anything else from the past month?
2024-07-11 19:14:44 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Whats Next
2024-07-11 19:15:13 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I wasn't able to do anything with Persistant data last month, so that is one of my goals for this month.
2024-07-11 19:15:23 <@salimma:fedora.im> I haven't had time to work on Hyperscale GNOME since RH Summit, but hopefully I can dabble with that and Neal can spin an image for DevConf US
2024-07-11 19:15:39 <@salimma:fedora.im> need to also work on internal stuff and the stuff I'll be presenting at Flock first
2024-07-11 19:16:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I thought you already had a Hyperscale GNOME ... or was it still a work in process?
2024-07-11 19:16:17 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> work in progress
2024-07-11 19:16:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Yep, getting my presentation ready for Flock 
2024-07-11 19:16:35 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we're really going to need hyperscale gnome for 10 since gnome in 10 is so barebones
2024-07-11 19:16:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'd really like to get persistant data ready in time for Flock.
2024-07-11 19:16:45 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> so getting this figured out with 9 is going to be really helpful
2024-07-11 19:16:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> work in progress - most of the libraries are there so I need to push a bit more to get to GNOME Shell
2024-07-11 19:17:03 <@salimma:fedora.im> so yeah for c9s it's really just a proof of concept, and we'll need it for real for 10
2024-07-11 19:17:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh huh ... at some point we should have an eln extras workload for this too
2024-07-11 19:17:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I noticed that you were getting images started for hyperscale 10 ... do we want to do that for altimages 10 ?
2024-07-11 19:17:55 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we have not started because epel is still not populated
2024-07-11 19:17:55 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I guess I could do a GNOME and a MIN image.
2024-07-11 19:18:24 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we're getting the foundational packages in hyperscale going now, but we need Carl George's work for epel10 to progress enough that at flock we can get kiwi and kde in
2024-07-11 19:18:41 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> if we can pull that off, then we can produce our first c10s images at flock
2024-07-11 19:18:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Very cool.
2024-07-11 19:19:42 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that will also help for altimages of course
2024-07-11 19:19:50 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since we need kiwi in epel for it :)
2024-07-11 19:20:17 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hmm ... having Fabian on PTO for ... most of the time leading up to FLOCK means I probrubly  won't be able to get the 10 stuff available for alt-images-10
2024-07-11 19:20:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ... ya ... HA! ... forgot about kiwi
2024-07-11 19:21:23 <@tdawson:fedora.im> But couldn't the builders running, whiatever they are running, and using kiwi, be able to build a 10 image?  Does kiwi have to be on 10?
2024-07-11 19:21:36 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> it's a koji restriction
2024-07-11 19:21:43 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> we can absolutely build from 9 for 10 locally
2024-07-11 19:21:57 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ah ... ok
2024-07-11 19:22:09 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> koji imposes the "host"="target" thing
2024-07-11 19:22:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> since it creates a mock root for the target distribution and then runs kiwi in it to build images for that distribution
2024-07-11 19:22:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That's good to know.  Then I'll be patient until we get it into epel10.
2024-07-11 19:23:05 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> for us in hyperscale, the main blocker is kde
2024-07-11 19:24:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ya.  I ran into a blocker when building in COPR.  There were several qt6-devel packages missing.  I opened a ticket, and Jan put them in (I think, I'll have to check), but I haven't had time since that.
2024-07-11 19:24:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I was hoping that the ELN workload stuff would make it easier to ensure all the needed packages are available from CentOS Stream to build KDE
2024-07-11 19:24:56 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I gave him a list of 5 missing packages, he turned around and went, oh, and here is this other 25 that should have been in.
2024-07-11 19:25:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> are the ELN workload stuff used internally at RH to determine what is needed in CRB? curious
2024-07-11 19:26:19 <@tdawson:fedora.im> It's supposed to be, but ELN and what is in the different repo's has been ... not consistent / very manual ... hard.
2024-07-11 19:27:02 <@salimma:fedora.im> personally I am of the opinion we might as well put everything not in a higher-level repo into CRB :P
2024-07-11 19:27:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> but there might be some business context I'm missing about the application guarantees
2024-07-11 19:28:35 <@smooge:fedora.im> CRB decisions are 'special' due to the application guarentees and other concerns
2024-07-11 19:28:54 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ya.  There used to be a business statement that limited what went to CRB.  Now it's up to the maintainers.  Which is why Jan put (tried to put, still have to check) everything qt6 into the release.
2024-07-11 19:29:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> maybe we need a repo below CRB that's the equivalent of Ubuntu's 'universe'
2024-07-11 19:29:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> "these are packages we built for you out of the goodness of our hearts but no guarantees there"
2024-07-11 19:30:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> AG level 5 :P
2024-07-11 19:31:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry for the pause, I just checked, and the qt6 is now in CS10, so I'm good to go.
2024-07-11 19:32:03 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> sweet
2024-07-11 19:32:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anyway, is we were sorta off-topic (sorta) ... is there any other Alt Images things we needed to talk about?
2024-07-11 19:32:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If/When I get the Peristant media stuff working, will you be using it in Hyperscale?
2024-07-11 19:32:38 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2024-07-11 19:32:47 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> fedora and hyperscale will both use it
2024-07-11 19:33:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Cool
2024-07-11 19:33:16 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I intend to switch Fedora KDE artifacts to kiwi for F42, because lorax's bugs on arm are blocking the ability to make those artifacts release-blocking
2024-07-11 19:33:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> some feature development in kiwi upstream is nearly complete, and I have to do work in koji on the kiwi plugin for it, and finally probably some pungi work too
2024-07-11 19:34:11 <@tdawson:fedora.im> You are already using it on Ahashi aren't you ?  (kiwi I mean)
2024-07-11 19:34:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> yes
2024-07-11 19:34:26 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Cloud and Asahi both use kiwi now in Fedora
2024-07-11 19:35:48 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> the work I'm doing on this stuff aligns with some other work I have to do, so it's nice to be able to kill so many birds with one stone
2024-07-11 19:36:14 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> lol
2024-07-11 19:36:17 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> thanks for the quick resolution on that weak dep thing, and updating the docs to reference the spin issue tracker
2024-07-11 19:36:25 <@salimma:fedora.im> on the other hand they keep pooping on my clothes and cars so... screw them
2024-07-11 19:36:31 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> that too :)
2024-07-11 19:36:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Carl George: You are very welcome.  Thank you for finding that bug.  It hopefully fixes the one other bug we have.
2024-07-11 19:37:22 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> technically i didn't find it, Jens Petersen did and brought it up in #centos:matrix.org 
2024-07-11 19:37:37 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> i just got nerd snipped and dug into the root cause 😀
2024-07-11 19:37:54 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> https://xkcd.com/356/
2024-07-11 19:38:29 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> I know all about nerd sniping 😅
2024-07-11 19:38:31 <@salimma:fedora.im> ooh there's a centos group on matrix
2024-07-11 19:39:08 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> it's a random channel, i have no idea who made it.  it originally had the old logo, and i messaged the mod to update that.  they never replied but they did switch the logo.
2024-07-11 19:39:20 <@salimma:fedora.im> huh. I'll stay away from it then
2024-07-11 19:39:59 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> doesn't hurt anything to idle and discover problems being talked about
2024-07-11 19:40:06 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ... so it's matrix.org, not fedora's matrix then.
2024-07-11 19:40:32 <@carlwgeorge:matrix.org> yup
2024-07-11 19:40:41 <@salimma:fedora.im> it doesn't hurt, but I'm in too many groups already :)
2024-07-11 19:40:44 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That explains why I didn't know about it.
2024-07-11 19:41:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Anyway ... I feel like I just got nerd sniped .... bringing things back to Alt Images ... anything else that anyone wants to bring up?
2024-07-11 19:41:53 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !topic Open Floor
2024-07-11 19:42:59 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think I'll see ya'll at Flock.
2024-07-11 19:43:08 <@conan_kudo:matrix.org> Nothing from me. Looking forward to seeing y'all at Flock!
2024-07-11 19:43:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Even Robby Callicotte  should be there I think.
2024-07-11 19:43:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> same. well, at EPEL next week too
2024-07-11 19:43:49 <@tdawson:fedora.im> True, various different meetings, but physically seeing people is always nice.
2024-07-11 19:44:20 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Then I'm going to close this a big early this month.
2024-07-11 19:44:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Thank you all for the good discussions.
2024-07-11 19:44:43 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Talk to you at Flock, if not sooner.
2024-07-11 19:44:51 <@zodbot:fedora.im> salimma has already given cookies to tdawson during the F40 timeframe
2024-07-11 19:45:02 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !endmeeting