18:00:38 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:00:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 26 18:00:38 2022 UTC.
18:00:38 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:38 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:38 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:00:39 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/539
18:00:39 <felixfontein> acozine andersson007_ baptistemm bcoca briantist cyberpear cybette dericcrago dmsimard felixfontein geerlingguy gundalow gwmngilfen ikhan_ jillr jtanner lmodemal misc nitzmahone resmo samccann tadeboro cidrblock thaumos zbr: ping!
18:00:42 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/539 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
18:00:44 <andersson007_> o/
18:00:45 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
18:00:47 <briantist> o/
18:00:48 <felixfontein> #chair samccann
18:00:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein samccann
18:00:55 <felixfontein> #chair briantist andersson007_
18:00:55 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007_ briantist felixfontein samccann
18:00:56 <jillr> o/
18:00:56 <tadeboro> o/
18:01:05 <cyberpear> o/
18:01:05 <cybette> o/
18:01:05 <felixfontein> #chair jillr tadeboro
18:01:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007_ briantist felixfontein jillr samccann tadeboro
18:01:14 <felixfontein> #chair cybette
18:01:14 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007_ briantist cybette felixfontein jillr samccann tadeboro
18:01:21 <briantist> (in another meeting as usual, and waiting on lunch, will be distracted)
18:01:52 <andersson007_> #info In accordance with the [Community decision](https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/51), we have created the [news-for-maintainers](https://github.com/ansible-collections/news-for-maintainers) repository for announcements of changes impacting collection maintainers (see the [examples](https://github.com/ansible-collections/news-for-maintainers#examples-of-news-posted-via-this-repository))
18:01:52 <andersson007_> instead of [Issue 45](https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/issues/45) that will be closed soon. If you're a collection maintainer, be sure you're subscribed. Also please read the brief [guidelines](https://github.com/ansible-collections/news-for-maintainers#guidelines) on how the repository should be used. Thank you!
18:02:11 <felixfontein> #chair briantist
18:02:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007_ briantist cybette felixfontein jillr samccann tadeboro
18:02:35 <acozine> o/
18:02:38 <cyberpear> make me furniture? :P
18:02:42 <felixfontein> #chair acozine cyberpear
18:02:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007_ briantist cyberpear cybette felixfontein jillr samccann tadeboro
18:02:55 <felixfontein> cyberpear: sorry, completely missed you :)
18:02:55 <samccann> \o
18:03:13 * felixfontein just finished cooking in parallel ;)
18:04:16 <acozine> mmm, dinner and the community meeting
18:04:38 <felixfontein> like every week ;)
18:05:08 <acozine> heh, chat is the "spice", then
18:05:30 <felixfontein> we have a vote that ends today but didn't got much attention: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/56
18:05:57 <felixfontein> acozine: cyberpear: PTAL :) (and everyone else who's interested)
18:06:38 * cyberpear drops a +1 on ticket
18:06:52 <felixfontein> there's also https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/63 which ends beginning of next week, and https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/61
18:08:18 <felixfontein> is there something folks like to discuss today?
18:10:50 <felixfontein> we could brainstorm about which collection files to automatically exclude on ansible package installs... not sure how interesting that is though
18:11:01 <acozine> For the roadmap issue, we're voting on the timeline. Should we also add items to focus on for Ansible 6?
18:11:18 <acozine> or is that a separate discussion?
18:11:39 <felixfontein> acozine: I think it's a separate discussion from the vote, but it can happen in the same issue
18:11:42 <felixfontein> we can talk about that :)
18:11:53 <felixfontein> #info What to focus on for Ansible 6?
18:11:56 <felixfontein> #undo
18:11:56 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by felixfontein at 18:11:53 : What to focus on for Ansible 6?
18:12:00 <felixfontein> #topic What to focus on for Ansible 6?
18:12:06 <felixfontein> that's better..
18:12:16 <acozine> thanks
18:12:16 <acozine> heh
18:12:41 <tadeboro> I would say that those two shoul dbe separate discussions. Once we +1 the roadmap dates, we will know how much time we have to make improvements.
18:13:18 <felixfontein> from the things dmsimard mentioned in the issue, I put three items into the roadmap file since I'm pretty sure we can do, but of course we can do more
18:13:24 <acozine> tadeboro: that's okay with me
18:13:40 <felixfontein> we can also close the vote now, it was promised to be for a week and started a week ago :)
18:13:48 <felixfontein> (also there are enough votes by now)
18:14:15 <felixfontein> 8 steering committee votes say +1, and there's no other vote (both SC and non-SC)
18:15:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:15:27 <andersson007_> sounds good
18:17:34 <felixfontein> I added a vote count, can someone confirm?
18:18:33 * acozine heads back to the issue
18:18:40 * andersson007_ looking
18:19:41 <acozine> done
18:19:53 <felixfontein> regarding the current topic, dmsimard also suggested to re-assess the state of included collections, and having more (global) tests for everything included and the built package
18:20:07 <andersson007_> done
18:21:24 <felixfontein> #info https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/76772 with the Ansible 6 Roadmap has been approved
18:21:39 <felixfontein> if someone has merging rights, feel free to use them ;)
18:22:13 <andersson007_> i don't have
18:23:17 <acozine> me neither
18:23:20 <jillr> I dont any more
18:23:52 <andersson007_> samccann: ^
18:25:16 <samccann> heh I can merge
18:25:32 <andersson007_> 👍
18:25:48 <felixfontein> looks like they locked down the repo a bit more :)
18:26:33 <samccann> merged
18:26:45 <andersson007_> 🎉
18:26:56 <felixfontein> awesome, thanks samccann!
18:27:05 <felixfontein> also I see you just merged the FQCN in examples PR \o/
18:27:10 <felixfontein> (https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/73546)
18:27:16 * acozine brushes the matrix confetti out of her hair
18:27:32 <samccann> woot!
18:27:57 <samccann> for some reason, matrix is giving me a 2-3 min delay before i see chat here
18:28:15 * samccann blames recent laptop upgrade
18:28:49 * andersson007_ brushes the confetti from the calvity
18:28:52 <felixfontein> cool, so we finally have a roadmap for Ansible 6 :)
18:29:35 <andersson007_> samccann: same for me
18:29:50 <andersson007_> that's why i have to use libera.chat
18:29:57 <felixfontein> I also had this recently (when I watched matrix more closely)
18:30:02 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:30:42 <felixfontein> so, what do you all want to have improved in Ansible 6? except lots of bugfixes and new features and shiny new other stuff in collections ;)
18:31:20 <andersson007_> the package free of tests:) painful topic
18:31:54 <felixfontein> I think we cannot remove them from the package, but we can remove them from the wheels and the installation
18:32:03 <tadeboro> That last one might not be too nasty once core starts shipping wheels.
18:32:09 <felixfontein> (or did we finally heard back from RH legal?)
18:32:19 <felixfontein> tadeboro: they plan for 2.13 AFAIK
18:32:31 <samccann> it seems to hit me during irc meetings. I saw pretty quick responses just now over on the help channel, no delays
18:32:58 <felixfontein> I'm looking forward to installing `ansible` when both ansible and ansible-core have wheels
18:33:03 <felixfontein> it will be much more fun ;)
18:37:47 <samccann> is there an issue/pr tracking wheels for 2.13 that anyone knows about?
18:39:43 <felixfontein> hmm, I was about to ping sivel, but he isn't hanging out here anymore
18:40:15 <bcoca> no issue afaik, actually thought 2.13 already supports wheels
18:41:18 <samccann> maybe i should ask - does it change how a user installs ansible if they are ..using..wheels?
18:41:34 * samccann must look up wheels cuz picturing ansible on a tricycle now
18:41:43 <felixfontein> I think it only makes it a lot quicker (if you don't have an ancient pip)
18:42:43 <acozine> I always think of "wheels within wheels" and picture a giant clockwork contraption
18:42:50 <jillr> they're sort of implementation details about how the code is packaged and delivered by pypi, shouldn't (as far as I can think) impact users (unless, yeah, ancient pip)
18:43:16 <samccann> ok thanks jillr !
18:43:41 <felixfontein> but also for ancient pip it shouldn't be a problem, for them it will be similar as now. at least as far as I know, I'm not really knowledgable on such things...
18:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:45:02 <jillr> tbh python packaging makes my head hurt  :)
18:45:42 <felixfontein> hehe
18:45:50 <tadeboro> Heh, I am learning go packaging right now and things are nut much better there ;)
18:47:14 <acozine> Package management is always messy.
18:47:27 <felixfontein> indeed.
18:47:48 <felixfontein> I would have hoped that go packaging is easier - I would expect you either compile from source, or simply deliver a precompiled binary without dependencies :)
18:48:13 <jtanner> "we cannot remove [tests] from the package" -- why?
18:49:03 <felixfontein> jtanner: because the tarball is our source package, and some of us have doubts on whether this will lead to trouble because of GPLv3. we've asked RH legal about this a looong time ago, but so far they didn't want to answer
18:50:20 <felixfontein> but it also means that while we cannot remove them from the tarball, we can remove them from the wheels / installs
18:50:29 <jtanner> redhat manages to make rpms without tests that might have been included in the source tars found in their srpms
18:50:46 <felixfontein> and since modern pips don't need the tarball to install, for most users it's equivalent whether we remove them only from the wheels, or from the tarball as well
18:51:11 <felixfontein> jtanner: we don't have an equivalent of source tars, resp. the tarball is the source tar...
18:52:48 <felixfontein> oh, since there isn't really a discussion left on this topic, I have another one :)
18:53:43 <felixfontein> #topic community.general and community.network: when we drop Ansible 2.9 / ansible-base 2.10 support, should we also drop support of ansible-core < 2.11.8?
18:54:52 <felixfontein> background: ansible-core 2.11.8 (released next week) will be the first 2.11.x release that fully supports the attributes docs fragments (see backport https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/75819)
18:55:01 <acozine> What exactly do we mean when we talk about "dropping support" in this context?
18:55:17 <acozine> ah, we are still releasing 2.11.x
18:55:26 <acozine> okay, I'm caught up
18:55:27 <felixfontein> if we simply require ansible-core >= 2.11.0, we cannot use these doc fragments in plugins, and if we use them for modules you can no longer ansible-doc them with these versions
18:56:02 <felixfontein> otherwise we'd have to wait one more major release, when we drop support of ansible-core 2.11 completely
18:57:26 <felixfontein> #info https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/50#issuecomment-1020849145
18:57:30 <felixfontein> (which basically says what I wrote above)
18:58:37 * andersson007_ has opened it to read tomorrow
18:59:35 <felixfontein> #topic open floor
18:59:43 <felixfontein> does anyone have another topic for today?
18:59:58 <acozine> a really quick topic ;)
19:00:07 <tadeboro> I did think about that a bit a few days ago but I am still not sure what is best when it comes to cost/benefit ratio.
19:00:31 <tadeboro> I should probably write my thoughts down into that issue.
19:00:39 <felixfontein> tadeboro: sounds good :)
19:00:52 <felixfontein> thanks everyone :)
19:00:55 <felixfontein> acozine: indeed ;)
19:02:26 <acozine> thanks, everybody, especially felixfontein for running the meeting
19:02:37 <jtanner> https://pypi.org/project/ansible/ ... the source code links to ansible/ansible. That seems wrong, especially in with the "can't remove tests from collection tars" belief
19:02:38 <andersson007_> need to go, thanks everyone! thanks felixfontein for leading the discussion!
19:04:12 <tadeboro> jtanner: Well, the link is correct for 2.9.x versions ;)
19:04:16 <felixfontein> thanks everyone!
19:04:23 <felixfontein> #endmeeting