18:00:00 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:00:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul  6 18:00:00 2022 UTC.
18:00:00 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:00 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:00 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:00:00 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/645
18:00:00 <felixfontein> acozine andersson007_ baptistemm bcoca briantist cyberpear cybette dericcrago dmsimard felixfontein geerlingguy gundalow gwmngilfen ikhan_ jillr jtanner lmodemal misc nitzmahone resmo samccann tadeboro cidrblock thaumos zbr: ping!
18:00:04 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/645 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
18:00:07 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
18:00:14 <briantist> o/
18:00:18 <cyberpear> o/
18:00:35 <felixfontein> #chair briantist cyberpear
18:00:35 <zodbot> Current chairs: briantist cyberpear felixfontein
18:01:14 <DonNaro[m]> o/ hello
18:01:14 <acozine> o/
18:01:15 <mariolenz[m]> o/
18:01:40 <felixfontein> #chair DonNaro[m] acozine mariolenz[m]
18:01:40 <zodbot> Current chairs: DonNaro[m] acozine briantist cyberpear felixfontein mariolenz[m]
18:01:49 <felixfontein> and I was already afraid that nobody is around :)
18:02:15 <felixfontein> #info the Ansible 6 docs are now complete - the modules in community.network and community.general are back on the 'latest' docsite
18:02:55 <gotmax[m]> o/
18:03:09 <felixfontein> #chair gotmax[m]
18:03:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: DonNaro[m] acozine briantist cyberpear felixfontein gotmax[m] mariolenz[m]
18:03:43 <acozine> felixfontein: that's just your Swiss view of time tripping you up
18:03:49 <felixfontein> (if anyone is aware of more issues w.r.t. the ansible 6 docs, feel free to mention this there as well)
18:03:50 <acozine> we might be a minute or three late, but we are here!
18:04:14 <felixfontein> haha, back at university everything < 15 minutes late was on time ;-)
18:09:21 <felixfontein> so, what do you folks want to discuss today?
18:09:37 <mariolenz[m]> I don't think I've something to discuss at the moment. But I'd like to make you aware of [community topic 112](https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/112). It would be nice to get more feedback on this.
18:10:09 <felixfontein> I agree, that one should get more feedback!
18:10:26 <gotmax[m]> Don't we still need to discuss the Ansible 7 roadmap?
18:11:03 <gotmax[m]> That's https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/115
18:11:04 <acozine> how are our candidate addition/removal collections doing?
18:11:07 <felixfontein> I would be especially interested in cidrblock's and zbr's feedback on #112
18:11:47 <felixfontein> gotmax[m]: about Ansible 7: there's a proposal (https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/115#issuecomment-1164771954), but so far nobody commented on it (except one thumb-up)
18:12:00 <gotmax[m]> Yeah
18:12:56 <felixfontein> acozine: there's one candidate for inclusion (actually the deadline is today: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/117), I guess since nobody complained it gets included
18:13:16 <gotmax[m]> felixfontein's proposal has a three week delay between core 2.14 and ansible 7.0.0, which I think is a good compromise.
18:13:51 <felixfontein> (we're still waiting for the month (?) to expire for google.cloud so we can vote on treating it as unmaintained)
18:14:03 <felixfontein> #topic Roadmap for Ansible 7
18:14:14 <acozine> the overall timeline seems okay - I added a comment about Thanksgiving, which is Nov 24 this year
18:14:18 <acozine> I don't know if that presents a problem or not
18:14:21 <felixfontein> #info Proposal: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/115#issuecomment-1164771954
18:14:46 <acozine> but most US folks will be OOO at least that Thursday and Friday, and many people extend the holiday either before or after
18:14:46 <felixfontein> acozine: that's a good point
18:15:03 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:15:12 <gotmax[m]> Re the licensing: I think we can benefit more from the SPDX license headers than core can, because ansible is not just one project. It's a bundle of collections that's not all managed by the same team, and there's already been problems with collections not following our licensing guidelines.
18:15:31 <felixfontein> I wouldn't mind moving everything to one week before, but the ansible-core GA release cannot be moved I guess...
18:15:42 <bcoca> fyi, galaxy.yml/manifest.json already requires spdx, you really dont need 'per file'
18:15:51 <acozine> well, if it gets moved, it's unlikely to get moved any earlier
18:15:56 <gotmax[m]> Yeah, but it's not always complete or correct
18:16:05 <felixfontein> bcoca: for collections that use the same license for everything that is correct, but quite a few do not
18:16:22 <bcoca> gotmax[m]: so if the 1 file is not correct, you expect 'all the other files' to be so?
18:16:23 <felixfontein> (like the ones vendoring code...)
18:16:36 <gotmax[m]> And there's no way to check that, e.g. the controller plugins are licensed under GPLv3+
18:17:13 <gotmax[m]> bcoca: That's a fair point. I think we also need to have guidelines about galaxy.yml mentioning all of the licenses.
18:17:13 <bcoca> gotmax[m]: not all, module_utils have many licenses
18:17:24 <gotmax[m]> And all of the licenses being included
18:17:46 <gotmax[m]> By "controller plugins," I meant everything except modules and module_utils.
18:17:46 <felixfontein> modules as well, and potentially other non-plugin files (like data files)
18:18:19 <gotmax[m]> * And all of the license files being included
18:19:03 <felixfontein> what do folks think about the 'thanksgiving problem' for the Ansible 7 schedule?
18:19:39 <felixfontein> we could extend the period between ansible-core 2.14 GA and Ansible 7 GA to four weeks, or shorten it to two weeks, or simply ignore that the US has thanksgiving
18:19:55 <gotmax[m]> felixfontein: What do you mean by "moving everything to one week before"? Making it 2 weeks instead of 3 weeks?
18:20:13 <felixfontein> two weeks can be problematic in case something bad happens (so far we were lucky, but that doesn't mean we always will)
18:20:53 <gotmax[m]> US Thanksgiving is on Thursday, Nov 28, FTR.
18:20:54 <felixfontein> gotmax[m]: I meant also moving the feature freeze one week before, and the ansible-core release as well - but that one we can't move (only the core team can, and they probably have other constraints)
18:21:16 <bcoca> we do
18:21:33 <felixfontein> gotmax[m]: the 28th is a Monday, the 24th (which acozine mentioned) is a Thursday
18:21:34 <bcoca> but ping sivel and nitz about it
18:21:51 <gotmax[m]> s/28/24/
18:21:59 * gotmax[m] looked at the wrong month
18:22:05 <gotmax[m]> It's always the 4th week of November
18:22:32 <acozine> I don't think Thanksgiving is a problem unless we have candidate collections that are maintained by US folks, in which case we might not get answers in a timely fashion
18:22:36 <felixfontein> remember remember the fourth week of november?
18:22:40 <gotmax[m]> I missed that acozine already mentioned that. Sorry
18:22:41 <acozine> heh
18:23:21 <felixfontein> acozine: I don't think that matters much, since now we include new candidates in every minor release
18:23:25 <acozine> but it's good to be prepared to say to folks "our release is right after Thanksgiving in the US, if that's something you celebrate you may need to get your stuff in early"
18:24:59 <felixfontein> I guess that with the current schedule, we basically miss a week of potential testing from the US. on the other hand, I'm not sure how much actively the package ever got tested between beta and GA
18:26:16 <felixfontein> if everyone testing it lives in the US, we decrease our coverage. if nobody tests it anyway, or a just a few folks spread over the planet, it doesn't really matter
18:26:30 <acozine> very true
18:27:15 <bcoca> keep calendar for all major world holidays
18:27:20 <gotmax[m]> Last time, Fedora held back ansible-core until the release of 6.0.0. Since it's only getting added to Rawhide (our development branch), anyways, I might consider packaging an rc, so it can get more testing from the brave folks who run that and use ansible.
18:29:06 <gotmax[m]> Do we have some pypi stats for how many people actually download the alpha/beta/RCs?
18:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:31:12 <felixfontein> I'm sure it is possible to get hold of these stats somehow, but I don't know how
18:31:34 <felixfontein> maybe gwmngilfen-work knows
18:31:49 <gotmax[m]> Or ompragash?
18:32:05 <gotmax[m]> (Although it's late in his timezone)
18:32:34 <felixfontein> could well be that he knows, I guess he'll answer tomorrow :)
18:34:39 <felixfontein> hmm, GH seems to have some problems
18:34:57 <gotmax[m]> WFM. What's happening?
18:36:08 <felixfontein> now it's fast again. two PRs were suddenly very slow to reload / react
18:36:18 <felixfontein> might have been some hickup
18:38:45 <acozine> keeping a site like GitHub running globally all the time is hard
18:38:57 <acozine> so I forgive them their little bobbles
18:39:44 <felixfontein> definitely!
18:41:41 <felixfontein> so... should we start a vote on the proposal? or anyone has suggestions for changing it?
18:42:41 <mariolenz[m]> <felixfontein> "(we're still waiting for the..." <- [Unmaintained collection: Removal from Ansible (communtiy) package](https://github.com/ansible-collections/google.cloud/issues/485) is 3 weeks old. IIRC we have to wait another week until we open a vote on this.
18:43:15 <felixfontein> I meant the Ansible 7 roadmap proposal :)
18:44:26 <acozine> let's vote
18:44:39 <acozine> I haven't heard any serious objections
18:44:40 <mariolenz[m]> let's vote
18:44:57 <acozine> and the sooner we publish it, the more advance notice folks have
18:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:46:36 <felixfontein> :+1:
18:46:44 <felixfontein> I'll create a vote for it then
18:46:55 <felixfontein> btw, how do you like the votes in discussions?
18:47:50 <gotmax[m]> mariolenz: Reactions don't show up on IRC
18:48:20 <felixfontein> hehe, good pointer :D
18:48:32 <gotmax[m]> They thumbs up'ed "I'll create a vote for it then"
18:49:10 * felixfontein just checked his matrix window ;-)
18:49:30 <gotmax[m]> It looks like there's a RFE for it: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues/1414
18:50:12 * gotmax just cheked his IRC window
18:50:26 <gotmax[m]> Anyways...
18:50:53 <felixfontein> interesting, I didn't knew the IRC protocol has support for that
18:50:59 <felixfontein> (I wonder whether irssi supports it :D )
18:51:33 <gotmax[m]> Yeah, there's some new IRC extensions, but they don't have a lot of client support
18:51:45 <bcoca> i turn off reacions/emojis/images/everything i can on most chats
18:52:12 <gotmax[m]> I turn off typing notifications, but Element doesn't allow turning off read receipts
18:52:20 <gotmax[m]> I find them kind of stressful
18:53:30 <felixfontein> that's why I like 'old-style' IRC, nobody even knows whether anyone saw their messages :)
18:53:47 <felixfontein> it sometimes sucks and has disadvantages, but most of the time I like it ;)
18:54:00 <felixfontein> #topic open floor
18:54:02 <bcoca> you still dont know .. on discrod i 'mark 23124 messages as read' button ...
18:54:57 <felixfontein> GH claims I have 1133 unread notificaitons. but then I manage GH notifications by email and don't care about them in UI :)
18:55:41 <felixfontein> anyone has something new or the last few minutes?
18:55:42 <bcoca> i 'mark all as read' about 1/year
18:55:43 <felixfontein> +f
18:56:00 <felixfontein> I sometimes do it when I remember, but most of the time I don't even care enough to do it once per year
18:56:11 <gotmax[m]> Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of webui features on Github that I never use.
18:56:20 <gotmax[m]> I do like the `gh` cli client
18:58:12 <gotmax[m]> Is it worth closing this out early? It feels like people don't have a lot to say today.
18:58:57 <acozine> early?
18:59:02 <acozine> it's two minutes to the hour?
18:59:08 <acozine> * it's two minutes to the hour
18:59:14 <gotmax[m]> Yeah, you're right :)
18:59:24 <acozine> it is a quiet day
18:59:37 <felixfontein> :)
18:59:39 <felixfontein> #endmeeting