19:00:21 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
19:00:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 25 19:00:21 2023 UTC.
19:00:21 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:00:21 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
19:00:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:21 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
19:00:21 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
19:00:21 <felixfontein> acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, zbr: The Ansible community meeting is starting now!
19:00:27 <felixfontein> The ping list is stored at https://kutt.it/meeting-people. Feel free to add or remove yourself.
19:00:30 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
19:00:33 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
19:00:34 <andersson007___> o/
19:00:42 <felixfontein> #chair andersson007___
19:00:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ felixfontein
19:00:43 <mariolenz[m]> o/
19:00:55 <samccann> o/
19:00:55 <acozine> o/
19:01:03 <felixfontein> #chair mariolenz[m] samccann acozine
19:01:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ felixfontein mariolenz[m] samccann
19:02:25 <oranod> o/
19:02:27 <mgraves[m]> o/
19:02:36 <felixfontein> #chair oranod mgraves[m]
19:02:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ felixfontein mariolenz[m] mgraves[m] oranod samccann
19:02:39 <andersson007___> #info A new collection inclusion request is available for review https://github.com/ansible-collections/ansible-inclusion/discussions/54 Let's include something :)
19:02:45 <felixfontein> #info There is a vote to keep cyberark.pas in Ansible 9: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/185
19:03:03 <felixfontein> #info There is a vote to update the PyPI description of the ansible package (now that 2.9 is EOL): https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/186
19:03:38 <felixfontein> both votes are a bit short on Steering Committee votes, and both end tomorrow
19:04:54 <andersson007___> it has just reached the quorum
19:04:58 <andersson007___> as far as i can see
19:05:09 <andersson007___> anyway, more votes would be appreciated:)
19:05:19 <felixfontein> definitely :)
19:06:42 <felixfontein> if there are no more updates, let's start with some contents :)
19:06:49 <felixfontein> #topic Ansible 8 Roadmap planning
19:06:55 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/176
19:06:59 <felixfontein> #info PR: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/79598
19:07:30 <felixfontein> last week we wanted to ask the folks doing the releases what they think about having ~one release per week for a couple of weeks due to the adjusted schedule
19:08:10 <felixfontein> unfortunately neither anwesha[m] nor chadams[m] replied so far
19:08:51 <felixfontein> from ompragash's POV it should be ok though
19:09:07 <samccann> anwesha: has been out sick for a time so may not get back to the PR soon
19:10:10 <felixfontein> ah ok, I hope she gets better soon!
19:12:22 <mariolenz[m]> Doesn't hurt to wait another week for an answer, does it?
19:12:45 <felixfontein> I think so
19:12:54 <mariolenz[m]> Or do we have to decide today?
19:13:20 <felixfontein> I think it's ok to wait
19:13:41 <felixfontein> I think we should in general try to have a roadmap for the next Ansible release not too long after the previous major release though
19:13:47 <mariolenz[m]> OK, I count this a no :-)
19:14:11 <felixfontein> no for having to deciding today :)
19:14:30 <andersson007___> if there's something critical, please let me know
19:15:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:15:19 <felixfontein> there isn't :)
19:15:29 <felixfontein> (I think)
19:15:51 <andersson007___> cool:)
19:16:08 <felixfontein> ok, is there another topic someone wants to discuss? if not, I would suggest to continue with https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/167
19:16:32 <samccann> I have a quick one...
19:16:52 <samccann> Based on this issue  - https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/187
19:17:05 <samccann> seems like we can have a view into all the easyfix issues across all projects.
19:18:01 <samccann> If there's no opposition, we can add these easyfix links into the bullhorn. So it suggests ansible-collection maintainers (and any other ansible project) should use that label, if they aren't already
19:18:12 <felixfontein> #topic Can we create a way to see all 'easyfix' issues across ansible collections and projects?
19:18:18 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/187
19:18:59 <felixfontein> do you mean the links per GH organization?
19:19:19 <felixfontein> or one which covers multiple organizations?
19:19:24 <acozine> +1 for putting that in the Bullhorn
19:19:27 <acozine> great idea
19:19:29 <samccann> yes.
19:19:30 <andersson007___> we should also add the links to contributor docs IMO
19:19:39 <samccann> I'm thinking one for all the projects, and another just for collections
19:19:40 <andersson007___> like to contributor path, etc.
19:19:53 <andersson007___> yep, not just for collections
19:20:21 <felixfontein> samccann: sounds good to me!
19:20:24 <samccann> yeah I was just thinking of keeping the links separate in the bullhorn etc because maybe they are different types of contributors?
19:20:32 <felixfontein> keeping collections separate from 'everything else' sounds good
19:21:04 <felixfontein> contributors interested in a specific project can still look for that label in that project
19:22:57 * acozine has a package delivery, BRB
19:23:12 <andersson007___> i'll think tomorrow about suitable pages on docs.ansible.com
19:23:22 <samccann> ok cool. I'll post to bullhorn etc.. thanks everyone!
19:23:29 <felixfontein> thanks!
19:23:41 <felixfontein> another quck one :)
19:23:43 <andersson007___> 👍
19:23:45 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/pull/114
19:23:54 <felixfontein> #undo
19:23:54 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x7f16338d5860>
19:23:58 <felixfontein> #topic Add Matrix room shield to ReadMe
19:24:00 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/pull/114
19:24:07 * felixfontein typed /topic instead of #topic...
19:24:48 <felixfontein> I like having that badge, though that particular image generator seems to be pretty slow
19:25:04 <felixfontein> the image is: https://img.shields.io/matrix/community:ansible.com.svg?server_fqdn=ansible-accounts.ems.host&label=Discuss%20at%20%23community:ansible.com&logo=matrix
19:25:35 <felixfontein> hmm, it seems to have gotten faster now
19:25:49 <felixfontein> I guess it depends on how often it is used, if it is used often enough it gets a lot faster
19:26:03 <felixfontein> slow = 1.5-2 seconds, fast = 100-200 ms
19:26:54 <samccann> ok I'm viewing this in the PR (aka GH's rendering) - when I click 'discuss at blabla" it just opens THAT IMAGE on another browser tab
19:27:16 <andersson007___> so that why on Matrix should be added
19:27:22 <andersson007___> as felixfontein suggested
19:27:38 <andersson007___> we aready did it in c.postgresql and c.mysql
19:27:51 <felixfontein> my suggestion just adds some alt text, but it also needs a link
19:28:12 <andersson007___> the link would be ideal
19:28:25 <andersson007___> not sure if possible though
19:28:27 <samccann> same thing happens to me on community.mysql
19:28:28 <acozine> yeah, link and alt text are both really helpful
19:28:34 <samccann> https://github.com/ansible-collections/community.mysql
19:28:46 <andersson007___> samccann: i mean it's at least written
19:29:03 <samccann> what happens when you click that link andersson007___ ?
19:29:16 <samccann> I expected it to open a browser tab for matrix... maybe that's just unrealistic?
19:29:50 <andersson007___> samccann: i meant `Matrix` is written on the badge
19:29:54 <acozine> I get what you get samccann
19:29:57 <acozine> just a blank page with the badge on it
19:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:30:02 <andersson007___> not everyone can recognize the logo m
19:30:11 <felixfontein> I've updated my suggestion with a second one, that one includes a link to https://matrix.to/#/#community:ansible.com
19:30:14 <acozine> surely we can at least link it to the docs on how to join Matrix?
19:30:18 <samccann> yeah andersson007___ I agree and that's fine
19:30:36 <felixfontein> I think I'll commit my suggestion so it's easier to see the result
19:30:49 <andersson007___> felixfontein: will it work?
19:30:57 <samccann> I'm arguing that the link itself isn't useful. it's just opening up the image on another tab
19:31:07 <acozine> felixfontein: yes, please
19:31:07 <felixfontein> https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/pull/114/files#diff-b335630551682c19a781afebcf4d07bf978fb1f8ac04c6bf87428ed5106870f5
19:31:11 <acozine> I can see that it should work
19:31:40 <andersson007___> yep, it works
19:31:46 <acozine> felixfontein: yep, that works
19:31:47 <andersson007___> if you click View file
19:31:49 <felixfontein> meh, you have to manually enable preview
19:32:08 <acozine> well, on the real README it should show up by default
19:32:23 <felixfontein> yeah, View File also works
19:32:33 <samccann> ah ok yes now it works
19:32:54 <acozine> because in that view GitHub forces you to select Raw if that's what you want
19:33:05 <samccann> but the community.mysql doesn't work andersson007___
19:33:13 <andersson007___> yes, i know
19:33:18 <samccann> oh phew
19:33:20 <andersson007___> i'll fix it tomorrow
19:33:24 <samccann> sorry for the noise ;-)
19:33:37 <andersson007___> np :)
19:33:50 <felixfontein> should I merge the PR for the community-topics repo?
19:34:03 <andersson007___> +1
19:34:07 <acozine> +1
19:34:24 <andersson007___> does anyone want to do the same for ansible-inclusion and news-for-maintainers maybe?
19:34:25 <mariolenz[m]> +1
19:34:25 <samccann> +1
19:34:45 <felixfontein> andersson007___: would be great if someone does that :)
19:34:47 <andersson007___> also ansible/community could be a good place
19:34:50 <acozine> samccann: this could go on the DaWGs page too
19:34:59 <felixfontein> with another room though ;)
19:35:05 <acozine> heh, yep
19:35:11 <andersson007___> i can do for those i mentioned
19:35:15 <acozine> this mechanism, not this link
19:35:34 <andersson007___> or if there are volunteers, please let me know
19:35:44 <andersson007___> also for ansible-build-data maybe
19:36:17 <acozine> andersson007___: maybe add a list of the repos to that original ticket?
19:36:33 <acozine> if you put them as a checklist, I could probably do one or two over the next week
19:36:39 <andersson007___> acozine: good idea, i'll do it
19:36:47 <felixfontein> we should probably create an issue for it, since the PR is now closed
19:36:50 <andersson007___> thanks!
19:36:53 <samccann> cool thanks!!
19:37:01 <acozine> anybody who picks up one of these changes, check the relevant box so we can keep track
19:37:03 <felixfontein> but +1 for checklist
19:37:13 <acozine> and not duplicate each other's work
19:37:26 <mariolenz[m]> +1 for checklist
19:37:31 <acozine> ah, I didn't realize it was a PR not an issue
19:37:53 <acozine> andersson007___: do you want to create the issue? shall I?
19:38:49 <andersson007___> acozine: if you want, please go ahead:)
19:38:58 <andersson007___> or i can, no problem at all
19:39:08 <acozine> I'll do it
19:39:13 <felixfontein> thanks everyone :)
19:39:13 <andersson007___> thanks!
19:39:39 <felixfontein> #topic Moving content from c.g/c.n to collections outside Ansible
19:39:44 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/167
19:40:19 <felixfontein> 1) we want to make c.g/c.n smaller, and encourage folks to move content to their own collections
19:40:54 <mariolenz[m]> brb
19:41:55 <andersson007___> the key point is "even if they are not going to submit their collections with moved content for inclusion"
19:41:56 <felixfontein> there are two potential problems: a) the collections might not be part of Ansible, which breaks users that simply do `pip install --upgrade ansible`, and b) we might lose control over the code
19:42:06 <felixfontein> (I think these are the main arguments that were mentioned in that issue so far)
19:42:23 <felixfontein> yes
19:42:41 <andersson007___> we removed unmaintained collections anyway
19:42:47 <andersson007___> it's also breaking
19:43:08 <andersson007___> we can technically split c.g and c.n into collections
19:43:09 <felixfontein> also moving can happen in two flavors: i) remove and add redirects; ii) deprecate and eventually remove (which kills the shortname for stuff that was already in Ansible 2.9) without adding redirects
19:43:37 <andersson007___> and remove them from the package as unmaintained
19:44:13 <felixfontein> I agree, users can still manually install the new collections and everything keeps working assuming that i) is used
19:44:49 <felixfontein> assuming that the modules in the new place are backwards compatible and haven't been changed in a breaking way
19:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:45:46 <andersson007___> they also can be changed in that way when they are in c.g c.n
19:45:46 <mariolenz[m]> re
19:46:12 <andersson007___> older versions will be available:)
19:46:13 <felixfontein> I don't see b) as a big problem, since the modules/plugins are licensed under GPLv3+, so you can always fork the last available version
19:46:57 <acozine> update on previous topic: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/190
19:47:03 * acozine reads backscroll now
19:47:14 <felixfontein> acozine: thanks!
19:47:28 <andersson007___> +1
19:48:54 <mariolenz[m]> the collections might not be part of Ansible, which breaks users that simply do pip install --upgrade ansible: Having modules in c.g that aren't really maintained doesn't look helpful. I think it's better to have no module at all than to have abroken one.
19:49:48 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: so what do you think about redirecting to a collection outside Ansible, that wants to keep that module maintained?
19:51:55 <mariolenz[m]> What do you mean with readirect? Some magic that allows people to use it as before? I would prefer to deprecate it and tell people to use the other collection so we're out of it.
19:52:15 <felixfontein> a meta/runtime.yml redirect, that's what we have been using so far when we moved stuff to other collections
19:52:34 <felixfontein> which basically keeps everything working if the new collection is installed as well
19:52:54 <felixfontein> that prevents the breaking change of having to add/change FQCNs all over your playbooks and roles
19:53:02 <felixfontein> (and potentially in playbooks and roles that you don't control)
19:53:07 <andersson007___> felixfontein: are we talking about included collections?
19:53:12 <andersson007___> i mean target ones
19:53:22 <felixfontein> andersson007___: no, collections that are not included
19:53:31 <felixfontein> for included ones we always used redirects so far
19:53:44 <felixfontein> (they only didn't work for Ansible 2.9)
19:54:05 <acozine> I agree that keeping unmaintained modules isn't great - it isn't really supporting users to let them keep using modules that are stale or useless or have security vulnerabilities. Redirects are handy, but do we have a plan for phasing them out? Will we someday reach a point where there are just too many redirects for modules in collections?
19:54:07 <andersson007___> felixfontein: i can be especially dumb now: but how will it work if they are not installed?
19:54:39 <acozine> I'm generally in favor of adding redirects, I'm just worried that we can't keep doing it forever.
19:54:52 <felixfontein> andersson007___: obviously it only works if they are installed. but users can simply install them
19:54:59 <felixfontein> `ansible-galaxy collection install` is a thing :)
19:55:13 <mariolenz[m]> But this also means we have to maintain the redirect in case the module name changes in the new collection. And, anyway, if there are changes to required parameters or something people will have adjust their playbooks / roles, anyway.
19:55:17 <andersson007___> felixfontein: aha:)
19:55:32 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: no we do not, that's the job of the new collection to add redirects themselves when they rename stuff
19:55:50 <felixfontein> and yeah, redirects only make sense if there are no breaking changes
19:56:04 <andersson007___> imo they could change tasks to use new FQCNs
19:56:26 <felixfontein> andersson007___: easier said than done. tell that to someone who has hundrets of playbooks and roles
19:56:34 <mariolenz[m]> Maybe have a redirect for some time, but remove it in the long run...?
19:56:43 <andersson007___> felixfontein: sed should help:)
19:57:40 <felixfontein> andersson007___: while I generally agree, forcing that on users is a good way to tell them "use something else than ansible next time if you want less hassle"
19:57:54 <mariolenz[m]> felixfontein: Less than 5 lines of code, sed or Perl or something...
19:58:20 <andersson007___> felixfontein: sounds fair
19:58:59 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: and then spending 10 hours to clean up the false positives?
19:59:05 <utoddl[m]> ansible-lint --write=fix-redirects ?
19:59:45 <felixfontein> does that work by now?
20:00:01 <felixfontein> (and it definitely won't work without redirects)
20:00:11 <utoddl[m]> ha ha. no
20:00:53 <oranod> I know the clock is out but I've got something I'd like to add before we end if that's ok
20:01:12 <felixfontein> please do
20:01:23 <felixfontein> we won't finish that topic today anyway :)
20:01:35 <oranod> last week samccann and I mentioned the docsite personas we're working on and I'd like to ask about putting it to a vote
20:01:38 <oranod> https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/189
20:02:19 <oranod> vote just indicates that folks in the community have reviewed the personas, don't have strong objections or input, and that we're in a place where we can proceed
20:02:34 <oranod> we were thinking about an end date of next week but maybe that's too soon?
20:02:36 <felixfontein> oranod: please add `[Vote ends on 2023-02-xx]` to the topic, as for the other votes :)
20:02:49 <felixfontein> ah, you just mentioned that
20:03:01 <oranod> indeed. just wasn't sure about the end date. I'll go for next week maybe.
20:03:04 <andersson007___> oranod: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/175#issuecomment-1403401610
20:03:10 <andersson007___> i have some feedback ^
20:03:12 <felixfontein> usually 2 weeks has a higher chance of gettings votes than one week
20:03:41 <felixfontein> but then, we can always extend the deadline since this is not a "real" SC vote
20:03:42 <andersson007___> also there are other folks put feedback in comments in the hackmd
20:03:54 <oranod> andersson007___: thanks, yeah I saw that and will incorporate. I think it's really good feedback. just need a bit more time to make the changes.
20:04:13 <mariolenz[m]> Apropos documentation, I think there's some outdated stuff in the ansible-core repository that should be removed: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/79795 Not sure if this is interesting for you.
20:05:02 <andersson007___> should we maybe start the vote when feedback is handled (incorporated or rejected) ?
20:05:22 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: it's probably best to add that to the DaWGs agenda as well
20:05:28 <acozine> sorry, folks, i have to run to #nextmeeting
20:05:34 <samccann> andersson007___: yeah seems that's what people will need to ensure they've read etc
20:05:41 <acozine> #unchair acozine
20:05:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ felixfontein mariolenz[m] mgraves[m] oranod samccann
20:05:52 <felixfontein> bye acozine!
20:06:24 <samccann> mariolenz - we'd need redirects to replace the stubs or decide they are so old/unused it's not worth it?
20:06:39 <andersson007___> i have to go too, thanks everyone!
20:07:04 <felixfontein> ok, I'm closing the meeting :)
20:07:06 <felixfontein> #endmeeting