19:00:12 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
19:00:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb  1 19:00:12 2023 UTC.
19:00:12 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:00:12 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
19:00:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:12 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
19:00:12 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
19:00:12 <felixfontein> acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, zbr: The Ansible community meeting is starting now!
19:00:17 <felixfontein> The ping list is stored at https://kutt.it/meeting-people. Feel free to add or remove yourself.
19:00:20 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
19:00:23 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
19:00:36 <samccann> o/
19:00:36 <cybette_> o/
19:00:40 <andersson007___> o/
19:00:52 <felixfontein> #chair samccann cybette_ andersson007___
19:00:52 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ cybette_ felixfontein samccann
19:01:11 <acozine> o/
19:01:27 <cyberpear> o/
19:01:30 <felixfontein> #chair acozine cyberpear
19:01:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cyberpear cybette_ felixfontein samccann
19:01:54 <mgraves[m]> o/
19:02:06 <felixfontein> #chair mgraves[m]
19:02:06 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cyberpear cybette_ felixfontein mgraves[m] samccann
19:03:10 <cybette_> #info Tentative schedule for Ansible Contributor Summit 2023.02 on Feb 8 is available at https://hackmd.io/@ansible-community/cs202302-planning#Tentative-Schedule-time-in-CET
19:03:41 <cybette_> #info We're thinking of having an Ansible Community Social on Feb 7 in Ghent (as part of CfgMgmtCamp/Contributor Summit), please indidate your interest here by Feb 4 https://hackmd.io/@ansible-community/cs202302-planning#Ansible-Social-Tuesday-Feb-7
19:03:59 <oranod> o/
19:04:02 <oranod> hi all
19:04:09 <andersson007___> cybette_: sounds great!
19:04:09 <felixfontein> #chair oranod
19:04:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cyberpear cybette_ felixfontein mgraves[m] oranod samccann
19:04:53 <acozine> cybette: I'm sorry to miss it (at least the in-person part)!
19:05:10 <cybette_> acozine: we'll miss you for sure!
19:05:14 <andersson007___> #info There have been several package inclusion [requests](https://github.com/ansible-collections/ansible-inclusion/discussions/) recently submitted for review. To learn more, see the collection inclusion [workflow](https://github.com/ansible-collections/ansible-inclusion/blob/main/README.md). Please help the community extend the package!
19:05:17 <andersson007___> + 1
19:05:21 <andersson007___> acozine: ^
19:05:39 <andersson007___> though i'll not be there anyway:)
19:05:45 <andersson007___> only in online format
19:06:00 <andersson007___> i'll be happy to see everyone on Fosdem
19:07:13 <felixfontein> hmm, does the contributor summit have no core team updates?
19:07:52 <cybette_> not this time... maybe the next one :)
19:08:23 <cybette_> #info We will have an Ansible stand during FOSDEM (Feb 4-5) in building K level 1
19:08:33 <felixfontein> I hope it doesn't mean that all the nice things we're waiting for aren't happening...
19:11:12 <felixfontein> #info There is a new vote on cancelling the removal process of google.cloud from Ansible since it's now again maintained: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/195
19:11:56 <cybette_> the last contrib summit was quite recent, and we wanted to focus the sessions this time to be in-person presentations only (people can still participate in the discussions online in Matrix/IRC), and a few topics that didn't have a chance to present previously. so there are several groups without sessions this time. that doesn't mean things aren't happening :)
19:12:08 <felixfontein> #info #info Please remember the other community votes for the Ansible 8 roadmap (https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/194) and personas for the Ansible docsite (https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/189)!
19:12:34 <felixfontein> cybette_: good to hear :)
19:13:08 <oranod> if I can just chime in on the personas vote quickly, I was curious to ask folks here if a vote is actually necessary.
19:14:26 <andersson007___> i think if we vote on it, we then will need to vote on any change on the new doc pages:)
19:15:00 <oranod> I discussed it with andersson007___ and the intention of the vote there is to make sure that the community is OK with us proceeding with the set of docsite personas that we have identified. it's more of an "ack" at this stage than actually voting on a decision that formalizes something.
19:15:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:15:27 <felixfontein> I think the vote is ok, since it's not a 'classical' vote but more a "please tell us whether you think our current selection looks good"
19:16:51 <andersson007___> if everyone understands the reason, it's ok
19:16:54 <oranod> ok, thanks. I'll update the vote to reflect that and make it clear. perhaps once we get further along with the docsite construction we can then raise another vote. if that's not too many.
19:17:44 <andersson007___> yep, i'll try to investigate that test docsite after the summit
19:17:56 <andersson007___> and implement my suggestions
19:18:31 <felixfontein> I'll try to vote on the personas vote soon, but I probably won't manage before Friday (to make sure I understand the topic good enough :) )
19:19:03 <andersson007___> i think it's worth reading the whole topic
19:19:19 <andersson007___> to better understand to where we go
19:19:40 <andersson007___> it's pretty big though:)
19:19:53 <andersson007___> a lot of reading
19:20:01 <oranod> I'm also planning a brief session at summit to go into a bit more detail and hopefully put things in more context
19:20:01 <felixfontein> yes, definitely! I already read it some time ago, but I don't remember that clearly, so I definitely have to read it again
19:20:39 <andersson007___> 👍 to both comments
19:20:43 <andersson007___> thanks
19:21:12 <felixfontein> btw, what do folks think about the community meeting next week... should we have it, since it is directly before the contributor summit? (and parallel to the social dinner)
19:21:32 <andersson007___> i suggest skipping it
19:21:55 <andersson007___> not all folks will be at the summit but many will be
19:22:18 <felixfontein> does anyone disagree?
19:22:26 <andersson007___> and at the dinner resp
19:22:27 <cybette_> we have our laptops at the dinner joining the meeting 😆
19:22:49 <cybette_> j/k actually the dinner is on Tuesday
19:23:23 <cybette_> but contrib summit is anyway on Wednesday and I think we can skip one week :)
19:23:35 <felixfontein> oh sorry, right
19:23:51 <felixfontein> I somehow thought the contrib summit is on Thursday... which doesn't make sense since then I'll be on my way back home
19:23:58 <cybette_> :D
19:24:12 <andersson007___> heh
19:24:39 <felixfontein> #info Next week's community meeting will not happen because Contributor Summit is a few hours earlier. Of course you can still hang out in #ansible-community / #community:ansible.com and have a nice chat :)
19:25:04 <cybette_> 👍️
19:25:18 <felixfontein> so, is there something (else) folks want to discuss today?
19:25:31 <felixfontein> oh
19:26:00 <andersson007___> i always fail to prepare well despite a reminder..
19:26:07 <felixfontein> #info Ansible 7.2.0 got released! Announcement: https://groups.google.com/g/ansible-project/c/7QO1vXfPkic/m/GK4urSZmBAAJ
19:26:08 * acozine is still fighting with her calendar to remove only ONE week's meeting
19:26:16 <samccann> heh
19:26:22 <samccann> I have a minor update
19:26:23 <andersson007___> 🎉
19:26:43 <felixfontein> acozine: I really wonder why calendar software still sucks that much, it's not like electronic calendars are a new thing...
19:27:08 <samccann> Was thinking and chatting about how the private plugin PR got rejected at the end.  One way to help prevent this is getting a bit more formal on 'community-topics' that impact anything outside collections.
19:27:09 <acozine> it does seem like a solve-able problem, yet nobody has really done a good job yet
19:28:06 <samccann> So for example, on that community-topic, if we'd pinged the core team, they might have jumped in earlier to express concerns etc.. and maybe saved Felix from writing two PRs to try to solve it...
19:28:12 <felixfontein> acozine: indeed. I recently noticed that gnome-calendar ignores timezones... and evolution recently changed it's UI and apparently the print button is where the save button used to be, and I constantly end up in the print dialog
19:29:24 <andersson007___> oh, yes, sounds tough
19:29:27 <acozine> samccann: more communication is always good, is there a good way to mark topics that will involve core and/or other teams?
19:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:30:21 * acozine has a delivery, BRB
19:30:23 <andersson007___> how about opening an issue in ansible/ansible linked to a community topic in such cases?
19:30:56 <andersson007___> imo a good way to bring attention
19:31:10 <samccann> That is another option, yes
19:31:10 <andersson007___> in addition to pinging people
19:31:13 <felixfontein> samccann: I did mention the community issue when adding the first PR to the core meeting agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/661#issuecomment-1294459904
19:31:16 <samccann> was thinking that might fragment the discussion tho?
19:31:30 <andersson007___> fair point
19:31:37 <samccann> if core responds on the ansible/ansible issue instead of the community-topic
19:31:45 <andersson007___> yep
19:32:07 <samccann> felixfontein: what I'm thinking of is a way to engage other teams (like core, lint, whatever) at the proposal phase instead of the implementation phase
19:32:14 <andersson007___> on the other hand any response is better than nothing
19:32:15 <felixfontein> or use a common ground, like https://github.com/ansible/proposals/ ?
19:32:20 <samccann> so before anyone starts implementing code
19:32:54 <felixfontein> samccann: the PR was part of the proposal, to get the discussion started both in general and for that specific implementation
19:33:08 <samccann> felixfontein: that's also possible, but I don't want to suggest that unless folks agree across projects
19:33:30 <felixfontein> samccann: I fully agree
19:33:42 <andersson007___> it also can be you know when i wish to introduce something i can just write a PR to make it more visual and if it get srejected, it's ok (to me)
19:33:43 <felixfontein> the proposals repo came up in a recent core meeting I think
19:33:56 <samccann> felixfontein: ah ok. What it feels to me is that IF it were proposal first, AND engaging core (or whatever team it impacts), THEN maybe the ultimate rejection would have been found earlier
19:34:07 <felixfontein> there was a bit discussion what should happen with the core meeting, since right now it's only once per month and almost nobody attends
19:34:21 <samccann> felixfontein: ok I can ask and see if that's going to be used more often now (the proposal repo) and how that interacts with community-topics.
19:34:56 <felixfontein> samccann: yeah, that would be good to figure out
19:35:33 <samccann> ok I'll ask around
19:36:19 <samccann> in the meanwhile, I suggest reviewing open community-topics of interest and being sure that someone from impacted projects is pinged in the issue.
19:36:55 <samccann> and holding off on implementations until there is approval/roadmap/etc (i'm lookin at u semantic markup!)
19:37:06 <samccann> but yeah longer  term we need a common approach to all this
19:37:10 <felixfontein> but that would mean that for some features nothing will ever happen
19:37:36 <samccann> thats kind of what we have today, right? in some cases
19:38:01 <felixfontein> like semantic markup... if we just would have written a proposal, nothing would have happened for years, and without an implementation we wouldn't even know how well (or not) it would work, or whether we are missing something (like the environment variable index page which came up as a result of the semantic markup PR)
19:38:18 <samccann> I agree a WIP PR might be needed to make things clear. Like what Don Naro has been doing with the docsite revamp
19:38:46 <gundalow> Funny you mention ansible/proposals repo. I was just in a discussion where we one of the Architects and I were talking about how to use it for Controller/AWX (and then more of The Platform)
19:38:58 <andersson007___> i think if a proposal author wants to create a PR understanding that it can be rejected, that should be fine
19:39:34 <felixfontein> I'm also wondering who can actually reject a proposal
19:39:38 <andersson007___> but we should at least point it out
19:39:44 <samccann> felixfontein: true, but I also feel bad that all that WIP work has been sitting there for 2 years and counting. I don't mind it in WIP etc, I do feel ansible projects overall could coordinate work better.
19:39:48 <felixfontein> like semantic markup... is it enough that one random impacted project says "no" and the proposal dies?
19:39:52 <andersson007___> somewhere
19:40:35 <felixfontein> samccann: I also feel pretty bad about it (and TBH I'm also pretty annoyed since keeping up the PR which adds semantic markup for community.dns is also some work)
19:41:25 <andersson007_[m]> sorry something wrong with connection on my side
19:41:26 <samccann> felixfontein: that's something we still need to work on. But I think with any proposal, yeah we'd have to deal with one project that rejects it.. not sure how that would be handled/governed... all part of a broader process I think we need overall
19:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:45:25 * andersson007_[m] cannot login to irccloud...
19:45:38 <felixfontein> #chair andersson007_[m]
19:45:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007_[m] andersson007___ cyberpear cybette_ felixfontein mgraves[m] oranod samccann
19:46:01 * andersson007___ succeeded
19:46:09 <felixfontein> :)
19:46:17 <samccann> welcome back ;-)
19:46:23 <andersson007___> thanks:)
19:47:12 * cybette_ counts how many underscores to figure out who is who :)
19:48:16 <andersson007___> hehe
19:48:59 <andersson007___> i think we should raise things that we want to improve as community topics
19:49:21 <andersson007___> i'm about the stuff felixfontein and samccann  were discussing
19:49:26 <andersson007___> for example
19:50:01 <samccann> unfortunately that still leaves us talking to ourselves to so to speak
19:50:16 <samccann> which is why I suggest we start pinging other  teams as needed
19:50:17 <felixfontein> both semantic markup and marking plugins as private already have community topics
19:50:52 <felixfontein> but how to ping other teams? I know neither which teams actually exist, nor who is in these teams
19:51:10 <samccann> tho perhaps what andersson007___ is saying is that this META topic today (how do we make proposals more active across projects) is what wwe should be discussing as... a community-topic ;-)
19:51:13 <felixfontein> (I only know some concrete examples of pairs (team, member), but these neither covers all teams nor all members :) )
19:51:19 <felixfontein> ah
19:51:26 <andersson007___> i'm about more general things
19:51:28 <felixfontein> yeah, that doesn't exist... yet :)
19:51:45 <andersson007___> yep, META topic is a good term
19:51:45 <samccann> felixfontein: yep, we'd have to create some group aliases or something.. so it would be like pinging the team (ping ansible-lint, core, molecule etc)
19:51:47 <andersson007___> thanks
19:51:58 * andersson007___ has issues with connection again
19:53:26 <andersson007___> group aliases sgtm or something allowing pinging a group of people
19:53:34 <andersson007___> ideally w/o a need to update them
19:53:52 <andersson007___> manually
19:54:09 <samccann> yeah the goal would be to use the group alias only on those topics that impact or need that team's coordination/approval etc
19:54:26 <andersson007___> +1
19:55:19 <felixfontein> we'd still need an overview about which teams + aliases exist, and a rough guide when to ping them
19:55:31 <samccann> yep
19:56:02 <samccann> As andersson007___ said, best handled in a community-topic so I'll start one with the bits and bobs we talked about here today
19:56:53 <felixfontein> sounds great, thanks a lot :)
19:57:00 <andersson007___> +1
19:57:10 <acozine> thanks samccann
19:57:32 * andersson007___ grows underscores, one per year
19:58:06 <cybette_> thanks samccann
19:58:10 * andersson007___ they have appeared themselves...
19:58:13 * felixfontein looks forward to andersson007______________________ :)
19:58:35 * andersson007___ thinks as we discussed is gonna live for so long
19:58:42 <cybette_> andersson007___ nice way to determine the age of your account :)
19:58:42 * andersson007___ is not
19:58:51 <andersson007___> yep:)))
19:58:52 <mariolenz[m]> Quick question about https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/discussions/195
19:58:54 <mariolenz[m]> If we decide to keep google.cloud, what do we have to do? Remove the deprecation from the changelog and announce it on Bullhorn... anything else?
19:59:12 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: I think we have a procedure for that in the removal doc
19:59:37 <mariolenz[m]> OK, I'll have a look.
19:59:52 <felixfontein> https://github.com/ansible-collections/overview/blob/main/removal_from_ansible.rst#re-adding-a-collection
20:00:10 <mariolenz[m]> thx
20:00:28 <felixfontein> any last words before I close the meeting?
20:00:45 <andersson007___> cybette_:  i suggest using underscores as a sign: the more underscores the more appreciated contributor:D
20:01:34 <felixfontein> I'm looking forward to see some of you at FOSDEM and/or CnfgMngmntCamp :)
20:01:37 <felixfontein> thanks everyone!
20:01:39 <cybette_> andersson007___ haha you're very very very appreciated!
20:01:41 <felixfontein> #endmeeting