19:04:31 <andersson007___> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
19:04:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 22 19:04:31 2023 UTC.
19:04:31 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:04:31 <zodbot> The chair is andersson007___. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
19:04:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:04:31 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
19:04:40 <gotmax23> I'm not up to leading today
19:05:01 <andersson007___> gotmax23: no problem
19:05:13 <andersson007___> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
19:05:16 <gotmax23> .hi
19:05:19 <zodbot> gotmax23: gotmax23 'Maxwell G' <maxwell@gtmx.me>
19:05:21 <andersson007___> hi
19:05:33 <andersson007___> acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, zbr: The Ansible community meeting is starting now!
19:05:48 * gotmax23 has a new email btw
19:06:03 <andersson007___> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
19:06:10 <maxamillion> .hello2
19:06:11 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
19:06:13 * acozine is half-here
19:06:17 <oranod> hello hello
19:06:25 <maxamillion> I"ll be afk for a few minutes, but I'll jump on soon
19:06:25 <andersson007___> gotmax23: good to know, if you share it with me for SC reasons, it'd be great
19:06:47 <gotmax23> It's the email that zodbot gave
19:06:47 <andersson007___> #topic Updates
19:06:56 <samccann> o/
19:06:59 <gotmax23> * zodbot gave the new one
19:07:21 <andersson007___> ah, ok
19:07:50 <andersson007___> any updates?
19:08:33 * gotmax23 has been busy with work and other projects
19:08:45 <gotmax23> I had some thoughts about the collection removal process
19:08:59 <andersson007___> #chair gotmax23 acozine samccann maxamillion oranod
19:08:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ gotmax23 maxamillion oranod samccann
19:09:13 <gotmax23> Also, I'd like to restart the discussion about removing unnecessary files from the ansible distribution once Felix is back
19:10:05 <andersson007___> it doesn't look like anyone has any updates
19:10:15 <andersson007___> so gotmax23 feel free to set the next topic
19:10:44 <andersson007___> mariolenz[m]: are you around?
19:10:44 <gotmax23> #topic Collection Removal Process
19:11:28 <gotmax23> Yeah, I was actually going to bring up a discussion I had with him about this :)
19:12:09 <gotmax23> What I wrote last week about the google.cloud vote:
19:12:22 <gotmax23> > I guess I'll vote +1. I deliberately abstained from the cyberark.pas one. I don't like that the only way to get some collections to fix issues is to threaten them with removal.
19:12:31 <gotmax23> > It's a lot of paperwork (filing a community-topics issue, filing a collection issue, starting a vote, filing an ansible-build-data issue, adding a deprecation changelog entry, etc.) if we're just going to revert it when the collection decides to get their act together.
19:13:00 <gotmax23> > I guess I don't get to complain, because it's usually you doing those things, but I'm a bit conflicted about the whole thing :)
19:13:01 <gotmax23> (Ultimately, I abstained)
19:13:02 <andersson007___> everything sounds fair
19:13:51 <andersson007___> yep, it's not good that threatening is the only thing that work but better than nothing?
19:14:00 <andersson007___> also folks it can be related https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/198
19:14:13 <gotmax23> I'm happy that we have a tool to cleanup the package, but perhaps we can make it more efficient
19:14:14 <andersson007___> it's another topic but a kinda related
19:14:52 <gotmax23> Would you mind a bit of a tangent about how we do this in Fedora? It might inspire us :)?
19:15:10 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:15:15 <andersson007___> yep, sure
19:16:05 <samccann> tangents can be fun (and educational)
19:16:13 * samccann puts on her virtual listening ears
19:16:23 <andersson007___> anyway please don't forget to file a topic:)
19:17:51 * cyberpear arrives late
19:18:12 <andersson007___> #chair cyberpear
19:18:12 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cyberpear gotmax23 maxamillion oranod samccann
19:19:19 <gotmax23> meh, now that I think about it more it's completely irrelevant, but: packages that fail to build after two releases are retired. one the failure to build is identified a bug is filled against the package. six weeks before the planned retirement, there starts weekly announcements about the imminent retirement. then, the packages are mass retired. anyone can unretire the package within eight weeks. after that, a re-review is required.
19:20:12 <gotmax23> if I'm counting correctly, maintainers have ~a year to fix these bugs
19:21:07 <andersson007___> what unretiring includes?
19:21:25 <andersson007___> just to fix the bugs?
19:21:28 <gotmax23> there's also an orphaning process. package maintainers can orphan a package that they no longer have time to maintain. there's ~weekly announcements. if nobody picks it up after ~6 weeks, it's also retired from the distribution.
19:21:40 <samccann> there are interesting points in that tho... about fixed deadlines and fixed points at which the owner has to react or it's out.  We could also include something that if a collection manages to fix things before getting the boot, they are also on 'probation' for the next couple of releases.. in case they swoop in, fix, and then ignore bugs for another year or so etc
19:21:55 <gotmax23> andersson007___: they have to file a ticket with release engieneerig
19:22:16 <gotmax23> *engineering
19:23:06 <gotmax23> there's a couple other processes that ultimately result in retirement. depending on the offense, the package maintainers have different amounts of time to fix it before it gets retired
19:23:55 <maxamillion> +1 to modeling after the Fedora process
19:24:21 <maxamillion> (I'm admittedly biased though)
19:24:41 <andersson007___> lets file the topic? i'm happy to consider any options
19:25:16 <gotmax23> there's a lot more packages in Fedora, but in my opinion, the main takeaways that we could apply are that things are announced all at once and the process is more automated
19:26:09 <samccann> yes this sounds like a good thing to discuss in a topic and come to consensus. Some great ideas here
19:26:39 <andersson007___> +1
19:28:10 <andersson007___> we could use passing sanity tests btw as one of criteria
19:28:21 <andersson007___> gotmax23: would you like to create the topic?
19:29:43 * gotmax23 is currently writing the issue
19:29:59 <gotmax23> https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/200
19:30:00 <gotmax23> I'm game to move on to andersson007___ 's topic if we want to continue this on the issue
19:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:30:03 <gotmax23> in all fairness, the Fedora process also ends up being a kludge to get people to fix issues, but at the end of the day, I'm happy that we're trying to identify which collections are actually dead and doing something about it. I just want to try to simplify the process.
19:30:34 <andersson007___> gotmax23: SGTM, thanks!
19:30:55 <gotmax23> #topic "Community-approved collections" instead of file inclusion in the Ansible package.
19:31:03 <gotmax23> #link https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/198
19:31:04 <andersson007___> #info Dear community please take a look at the collection community-approval status instead of inclusion topic https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/198. Any feedback will be much appreciated!
19:31:13 <gotmax23> I guess this is the next topic to discuss :)?
19:31:22 <andersson007___> I'm not sure if it's worth discussing it today
19:31:48 * gotmax23 realizes he missed last discussion
19:31:50 <gotmax23> Open floor I guess?
19:31:58 <andersson007___> we're still collecting feedback there
19:32:18 <andersson007___> does anyone have any particular topic to discuss?
19:32:20 * gotmax23 nods
19:35:17 <andersson007___> does anyone remember how to start openfloor?:))
19:35:40 <gotmax23> #topic Open Floor
19:35:41 <gotmax23> that :)?
19:35:52 <andersson007___> yep, thanks gotmax23 :)
19:36:02 <andersson007___> wasnt' sure
19:37:04 <andersson007___> feeling dumb now , usually not so as today evening
19:37:24 <samccann> must be a long day (and night) for ya!
19:37:39 <andersson007___> another reason not to start that collection approval topic:)
19:37:41 <andersson007___> yeah
19:37:49 * gotmax23 is also jumbled and it's not even 14:00 here
19:38:16 <andersson007___> hehe, tough
19:40:13 <andersson007___> before new year started to take the first caffeine in 90-120 minutes after awakening. Heard it as an advice on how to avoid afternoon crash.
19:40:49 <andersson007___> i think it doesn't solve the issue entirely but now it's better:)
19:40:52 <andersson007___> in my case
19:42:08 <andersson007___> ok, i'll close the meeting in a minute if there are no topics
19:42:25 <gotmax23> 👍️
19:43:04 <andersson007___> i meant to say in 90-120 minutes instead of immediate:)
19:43:14 <andersson007___> it's important:))
19:43:42 <oranod> oh I don't know. caffeine first thing is so good though.
19:44:04 <oranod> thanks andersson007___ and all
19:44:08 <andersson007___> the wisdom is that adenosin should have time to attach to neurons
19:44:23 <andersson007___> #endmeeting