19:00:44 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
19:00:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 22 19:00:44 2023 UTC.
19:00:44 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:00:44 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
19:00:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
19:00:44 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
19:00:44 <felixfontein> acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, ascherbaum, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, wbentley15[m], zbr, landrash: The Ansible community meeting is starting now!
19:00:50 <felixfontein> The ping list is stored at https://kutt.it/meeting-people. Feel free to add or remove yourself.
19:00:53 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
19:00:56 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
19:01:21 <samccann> o/
19:01:29 <oranod> o/
19:01:34 <felixfontein> Landrash[m]: ping
19:01:37 <felixfontein> #chair samccann oranod
19:01:37 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein oranod samccann
19:01:43 <cybette_> o/
19:02:05 <felixfontein> #chair cybette_
19:02:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: cybette_ felixfontein oranod samccann
19:02:38 <Leo[m]1> hi all! o/
19:03:42 <felixfontein> #chair Leo[m]1
19:03:42 <zodbot> Current chairs: Leo[m]1 cybette_ felixfontein oranod samccann
19:04:18 <anwesha[m]> Hello hello
19:04:27 <felixfontein> #chair anwesha[m]
19:04:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: Leo[m]1 anwesha[m] cybette_ felixfontein oranod samccann
19:04:45 <pino|work> hello (i guess i can lurk)
19:05:04 <oranod> hello pino|work
19:05:10 <felixfontein> #info ansible-core 2.15 / Ansible 8 will have basic sematic markup support as the two main PRs have been merged! There are still some aspects missing, but it's on a good way :)
19:05:11 <mariolenz[m]> o/
19:05:19 <felixfontein> #chair pino|work mariolenz[m]
19:05:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: Leo[m]1 anwesha[m] cybette_ felixfontein mariolenz[m] oranod pino|work samccann
19:05:28 <samccann> woot! great progress!
19:05:54 <cybette_> cool!
19:07:00 <felixfontein> #info If you are looking at integrating semantic markup into your project (that processes Ansible docs), you might be interested in some dependency-free libraries for Python and TypeScript/JavaScript which parse and transform Ansible markup (including semantic markup): https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull-docs-parser/ (Python),
19:07:05 <felixfontein> https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull-docs-ts/ (TypeScript/JS)
19:07:21 <jtanner> #info ansible-core devel has improved retry logic for the galaxy api. for those running into issues in CI, please try this out. https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/80180
19:08:16 <felixfontein> nice to see improvements for that. would be even greater if retries aren't necessary though :D
19:08:27 <jtanner> that's still being worked as well
19:08:40 <felixfontein> yep, and such issues tend to be harder than adding retries :)
19:08:57 <jtanner> retries may make it worse for load based issues, so we'll see
19:09:21 <felixfontein> #topic Moving the community meeting to 18:00 UTC (for DST change)
19:09:25 <samccann> does that fix this issue - https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/206 ?
19:09:28 <felixfontein> #link https://github.com/ansible/community/pull/691
19:09:44 <jtanner> samccann: no, it's more of a band-aid
19:09:52 <samccann> ok thanks
19:10:27 <felixfontein> we usually move the community meeting between 19:00 UTC ('winter time') and 18:00 UTC ('summer time')
19:10:42 <felixfontein> does anyone mind if we switch the meeting back to 18:00 UTC from next week on?
19:11:14 <gotmax23> I'm onboard ;)
19:11:20 <oranod> +1 for 18.00 UTC
19:11:21 <mariolenz[m]> not me
19:11:39 <mariolenz[m]> it's ok for me
19:11:40 <cybette_> +1 for changing to 18 UTC
19:11:56 <felixfontein> gotmax23: the plane, or for the DST change, or both? ;)
19:11:58 <samccann> +1
19:12:13 <felixfontein> (you did mention an airport earlier)
19:12:17 <gotmax23> The DST change
19:12:21 <Leo[m]1> +1
19:12:23 <felixfontein> ok :)
19:12:30 <gotmax23> I realized the double meaning after I sent that :)
19:12:52 <felixfontein> since the meeting is very informal and the main discussions and votes happen async, I think we can safely move the meeting then
19:14:08 <felixfontein> #action felixfontein merge https://github.com/ansible/community/pull/691
19:14:21 <felixfontein> #topic Static site generator for the Ansible community web presence
19:14:28 <felixfontein> #info Discussion: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/210
19:14:31 <felixfontein> oranod: do you want to present this?
19:14:40 <oranod> sure, thanks felixfontein
19:14:58 <oranod> hi everyone, I'd like to present some details to the community and discuss whether we should put a decision to a vote.
19:15:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:15:20 <oranod> bit of a wall of text inbound so apologies in advance for that but a bit of context... to create a more cohesive online presence for the Ansible community we have identified the need for a static site generator to build and deploy a website. There have been a lot of excellent tools put forward for consideration but we need to make a choice so we can get things off the ground.
19:15:36 <oranod> To facilitate that decision I've put together a checklist of requirements against which I've gathered some details to assess each of the options.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/22c581ba1b6d88f2e13f3ddd26c5da6b4ac4f1b4>)
19:15:47 <oranod> Because time is of the essence it would be ideal for the vote to close next Thursday so we can start building. What do you all think?
19:17:00 <oranod> maybe the +1 / -1 vote for Nikola would be the most straightforward way to proceed but I'd like to try and give room for other opinions
19:17:05 <felixfontein> i.e. we should start the vote today or tomorrow
19:17:52 <felixfontein> do you plan to have a three-option vote (lector, mkdocs, nikola), or a subset of these, or ...?
19:17:59 <samccann> starting the vote sounds good. a lot of detail went into that discussion already
19:18:15 <samccann> mkdocs doesn't seem ready for what we want out of the gate so to speak
19:19:40 <felixfontein> I've never used mkdocs and lector before, but them I'm biased anyway ;)
19:19:50 <oranod> I think either Lektor or Nikola would help us hit the ground running more so than the other options and narrowing the vote to two candidates (or just Nikola) might be the most efficient
19:19:52 <gotmax23> re. licensing: I don't understand the CC 3.0 choice. If you want copyleft, I'd do CC-BY-SA-4.0 for content and GPL-3.0-or-later for code. Otherwise, CC-BY-4.0 and MIT.
19:20:01 <cybette_> while I'd prefer +1 / -1 vote for Nikola to keep it simple, I can see a +1 vote for either Nikola or Lektor working out better to provide options (and if for some reason the Nikola vote doesn't go through we don't have to wait another week to re-vote)
19:20:31 <oranod> thanks gotmax23 that is for the prototype docsite right? I need to change that and will create an issue. thanks for the reminder.
19:20:43 <Leo[m]1> I would like to see attractive/modern Nikola or Lektor main pages, haven't found one from the default themes
19:21:06 <samccann> I'm guessing this is not a vote the Steering Committee decides? Seems more like the pulse of the community/potential contributors?
19:21:12 <gotmax23> to expand: CC 3.0 is the old version, and the CC licenses should probably not be used for the underlying HTML/CSS/JS, as it's meant for content.
19:21:24 <gotmax23> Don Naro: Yeah, that's what's on the prototype site
19:21:45 <oranod> Leo: for Nikola I think the material theme might be a good starting point: https://themes.getnikola.com/v8/material-theme/
19:24:28 <oranod> for Lektor I think we would need to use some more custom styling straight away but could easily reuse what we have for that prototype docsite, which is close to MVP
19:25:33 <oranod> gotmax23: https://github.com/ansible/jinja-docsite/issues/67
19:25:38 <Leo[m]1> oranod: not my cup of tea, looks a bit dated imho, but I might have been spoiled by the mkdocs material theme page
19:25:51 <jtanner> what is going to end up on this site?
19:26:13 <gotmax23> re SSGs themselves, I'm not super experienced in this area. I like mkdocs a lot, but it's definitely not meant for this purpose. I wanted to look more into Nikola earlier this week but didn't have the chance. It sounds good from what I've heard from Felix, though
19:27:34 <anwesha[m]> <gotmax23> "re. licensing: I don't understan..." <- You are trying that in case of Websites you prefer CC or MIT and for code (like any codebase) you prefer GPL v3, am I right in understanding? Or are you talking about any specific codebase?
19:27:38 <felixfontein> Leo[m]1: https://squidfunk.github.io/mkdocs-material/ looks like slow and sluggish to me personally :)
19:27:58 <oranod> yeah I think Felix has made a pretty compelling argument for Nikola. and there are some other themes we can choose from if the material theme isn't the best.
19:28:25 <Leo[m]1> jtanner: ansible community homepage, blog, articles, meetup info... I'm missing stuff for sure
19:29:13 <jtanner> should the design happen before you pick a framework that might not be able to achieve that design?
19:29:30 <oranod> yeah I went looking for a HackMD, which I can't seem to find right now, that had an outline of some of the content that will go into the new site
19:29:54 <Leo[m]1> felixfontein: it is a bit on the heavy side, I agree, but, i like the single page scrolling and general aesthetics, is hipster :D
19:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:30:11 <cybette_> jtanner: here's a concept/wishlist for the site that we're just about to share https://hackmd.io/@ansible-community/new-website-concept
19:30:34 <felixfontein> Leo[m]1: I really dislike hipster sites :D I like nice layouts, but these huge one-page scrolling epics usually suck IMO
19:30:49 <felixfontein> (but that's my personal opinion...)
19:30:53 <oranod> jtanner: that is a fair point and I've kind of been pushing for more of a layout / set of wireframes but I think we're trying to achieve a pretty simple first edition to grab some of the momentum that is behind the community at the moment
19:30:59 <Leo[m]1> felixfontein: this are landing pages mostly for newcomers, you shouldn't be using it frequently though
19:31:19 <felixfontein> Leo[m]1: the worst thing is when not everything is there by default, but stuff 'moves' in with fancy transitions... like on the mkdocs material page... I *really* hate that
19:31:25 <jtanner> depending on the variation of the content, a static page generator from rst or whatever format might not be useful
19:31:28 <Leo[m]1> afaik, if we are trying to point people into a friendly "one pager" where they can get a glimpse of the community, we need to make it pretty
19:31:43 <jtanner> pure html/js/css may be more useful, despite the displeasure of writing them
19:31:53 <gotmax23> felixfontein: the annoying scrolling thing is not part of the mkdocs-material theme itself. It's custom styling for the promotional website.
19:32:13 <Leo[m]1> felixfontein: +1 . I'm guessing transitions can be disabled, not a fan of those either
19:32:29 <felixfontein> jtanner: nikola can do that too ;) I guess lektor as well... you can also do individual pages totally different from others if you want
19:32:38 <felixfontein> gotmax23: good to know :)
19:33:21 <samccann> adding to the hate on transitions as well
19:33:41 <felixfontein> jtanner: whether pure html is a good choice depends a lot on the specific content...
19:33:46 <gotmax23> (You can look at https://fedrq.gtmx.me or one of the Ansible devtools projects that recently switched to mkdocs-material for a simpler version.)
19:34:11 <Leo[m]1> jtanner: that was one of the points actually. we were thinking on something that actually had a theme or something we could reutilize with little to no work. Unless someone has a designer/ui/ux front end developer willing to contribute
19:34:53 <gotmax23> -1 to manual html/css, especially if the site will have a blog
19:34:55 <jtanner> there's always wix.com =)
19:35:19 <felixfontein> if someone is looking for a concrete example: https://ansible-lint.readthedocs.io/usage/#linting-playbooks-and-roles
19:35:22 <Landrash[m]> Regardless of wich one is chosen lets not forgett mobile friendly
19:35:53 <felixfontein> jtanner: I'd rather burn all my ansible stuff than survive a wix.com based ansible community page :D
19:36:28 <cybette_> many SSGs can do individual pages (at least those I have experience with), and can use CSS to achieve more "attractive" looks (which is of course, subjective)
19:36:34 <felixfontein> (not counting that wix just sounds ... weird in german)
19:36:37 <gotmax23> felixfontein: yeah, I was looking for that link
19:37:14 <felixfontein> Landrash[m]: +1 definitely! though that's usually a property of the theme, not of the SSG
19:38:30 <cybette_> #link https://hackmd.io/@ansible-community/new-website-concept
19:39:28 <oranod> so, to be clear on the next steps here, after we vote on this - whichever way that goes - we can get it over to the WG and start setting things up so there will be plenty more opportunities for folks to chime in on the ux and theme. plus we are keeping it in mind that SSGs come and go and what we vote on now might not be what we end up using in 6 months from now
19:40:34 <felixfontein> true. if the SSG chosen turns out to be problematic, replacing it shouldn't be too hard, since I guess we'll also have learned more about how the site in general should work by then and might want to take the opportunity to restructure it
19:41:18 <oranod> does anyone oppose a +1 / -1 vote on Nikola as it seems to have the strongest support and fulfills our immediate needs?
19:41:29 <gotmax23> Has the Website WG already been formed?
19:42:01 <gotmax23> Don Naro: I'd say go ahead and create a vote
19:42:15 <oranod> actually I might've spoken too soon about the WG. I think so but then my memory is shattered as I've been up since 2am
19:42:32 <felixfontein> that's ... early
19:43:21 <oranod> cats were kicking off in the garden and I just couldn't get back to sleep
19:43:24 <cybette_> I'm ok with +1 / -1 vote on Nikola and we're in the process of forming the WG and will be reaching out to people soon
19:43:54 <gotmax23> yeah, I'd didn't think there was but that message made it sound like it was already formed
19:44:06 <cybette_> soon = within the next week, and should have the group formed when the voting ends :)
19:44:25 <oranod> my bad on the wording there
19:45:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
19:45:38 <oranod> I'll create the vote for the SSG. thanks everyone. I guess we can move on if there's something else to discuss.
19:45:49 <felixfontein> cool, thanks!
19:45:58 <samccann> Thanks Don Naro  great progress!
19:46:02 <felixfontein> is there anything folks want to discuss next?
19:46:02 <gotmax23> If we've agreed to start the vote, it sounds like open floor time to me :)
19:46:14 <gotmax23> (or whatever the next topic is.../
19:46:21 <felixfontein> for the grafana CLA topic the remaining time might be a bit short
19:46:40 <oranod> thank you for the really great suggestion felixfontein I'm looking forward to learning about Nikola. was playing around with it earlier and think it's really solid.
19:47:01 <gotmax23> yeah, also I'm on mobile, so let's punt that to next week
19:47:15 <felixfontein> gotmax23: SGTM
19:47:16 <gotmax23> (or discuss async)
19:47:24 <felixfontein> #topic open floor
19:48:24 <gotmax23> can someone add an #info with a link to the grafana issue reminding folks to chime in?
19:48:24 <felixfontein> ansible-core 2.15 feature freeze is in a week, which means that ansible-core betas and thus Ansible 8 alpha will start soon: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/roadmap/COLLECTIONS_8.html#release-schedule
19:48:58 <felixfontein> (next week's also the Ansible 7.4.0 release)
19:50:27 <gotmax23> #info Please chime in on the discussion at https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/212 regarding the merger of community.grafana and grafana.grafana and the CLA
19:53:45 <Landrash[m]> I tend to agree with the argument and resolution of the grafana issue. CLA especially when forced upon a community is anything but inclusive.
20:02:53 <felixfontein> ok, time's over :)
20:02:55 <felixfontein> thanks everyone!
20:02:56 <felixfontein> #endmeeting