18:00:08 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:00:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr  5 18:00:08 2023 UTC.
18:00:08 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:08 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:08 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:00:08 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
18:00:11 <felixfontein> Landrash[m], acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, ascherbaum, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, wbentley15[m], zbr: The Ansible community meeting is starting
18:00:17 <felixfontein> now!
18:00:17 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
18:00:20 <felixfontein> The ping list is stored at https://kutt.it/meeting-people. Feel free to add or remove yourself.
18:00:25 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
18:00:30 <cyberpear> o/
18:00:30 <felixfontein> #info ansible-core 2.15.0b1 has been released
18:00:34 <samccann> o/
18:00:44 <felixfontein> #chair cyberpear samccann
18:00:44 <zodbot> Current chairs: cyberpear felixfontein samccann
18:00:50 <felixfontein> Ansible 8.0.0a1 should be out soon as well
18:01:06 <maxamillion> .hello2
18:01:06 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@gmail.com>
18:01:11 <felixfontein> #chair maxamillion
18:01:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: cyberpear felixfontein maxamillion samccann
18:01:23 <andersson007_[m]> o/
18:01:30 <felixfontein> #chair andersson007_[m]
18:01:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007_[m] cyberpear felixfontein maxamillion samccann
18:01:38 <cybette_> o/
18:01:46 <acozine> o/
18:02:13 <andersson007___> o/
18:02:19 <felixfontein> #chair cybette_ acozine andersson007___
18:02:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007_[m] andersson007___ cyberpear cybette_ felixfontein maxamillion samccann
18:02:27 * andersson007___ finally loaded irc
18:02:39 <felixfontein> :)
18:02:47 <felixfontein> and there you are with three underscores ;)
18:02:54 <andersson007___> hehe
18:03:00 <andersson007___> my favorite one
18:03:08 <andersson007___> "special"
18:03:15 <felixfontein> next year you can bump it to four ;)
18:03:21 <andersson007___> +1
18:03:33 <andersson007___> like a tree
18:04:22 <andersson007___> any updates?:)
18:05:02 <felixfontein> ansible-core 2.15.0b1 contains 'full' support for semantic markup, so I'm really looking forward to finally being able to use it :) (once the last Ansible 7 release has been made, to avoid wrecking its docsite)
18:05:24 <andersson007___> samccann: do we want to ask for feedback on the new landing pages for docs.ansible.com?
18:05:26 <samccann> :-) thanks for that
18:05:44 <samccann> #info new docs landing pages are up at docs.ansible.com ! Feedback welcome
18:06:07 <samccann> and congrats to oranod who really got that going!
18:06:20 <felixfontein> \o/ that's really awesome!
18:06:25 <andersson007___> 👍
18:06:35 <cybette_> 🎉
18:06:58 <andersson007___> i guess feedback can be put in https://github.com/ansible/jinja-docsite/ as issues
18:08:19 <andersson007___> looks great to me
18:08:37 <felixfontein> is there a topic someone wants to discuss today?
18:09:04 * andersson007___ feeling open to any topics
18:09:17 <felixfontein> there's samccann's topic "What tools should we include on the Tools and programs page in docs?", I think for most other topics some folks are missing which would be nice to be around for them
18:10:13 <felixfontein> or the general question of whether/when we should allow moving stuff out of Ansible
18:11:12 <samccann> https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/220 is the one about tools
18:11:18 <felixfontein> #topic What tools should we include on the Tools and programs page in docs?
18:11:22 <felixfontein> #info Discussion: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/220
18:11:25 <felixfontein> then let's start with it :)
18:11:34 <felixfontein> it is basically about this page: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/community/other_tools_and_programs.html
18:12:04 <andersson007___> how about moving pycharm lower than Vscode?
18:12:19 <andersson007___> feels like the latter is more popular in the community
18:12:27 <andersson007___> + the plugin
18:12:39 <samccann> it was originally in alphabetical order but PRs changed that
18:13:21 <samccann> But anything other than alphabetical means we need guidelines on 'what goes first'. Do we list official ansible tools first and then alphabetize whatever else there is?
18:13:32 <felixfontein> it's funny that PyCharm and Jetbrains are two separate entries, even though they are basically the same
18:13:39 <cybette_> I think it's better to keep things simple and alphabetical
18:13:55 <acozine> agreed on alphabetical
18:14:15 <samccann> so should pycharm/jetbrains be in one combined header?
18:14:16 <acozine> we don't want endless arguments about which editor/whatever is better than which other editor/whatever
18:14:17 <andersson007___> and + 1 to simple
18:14:30 <andersson007___> not too much is also important
18:14:45 <andersson007___> so also +1 to the community involved stuff
18:15:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:15:01 <felixfontein> samccann: I would combine them
18:15:15 <cyberpear> alphabetical makes sense to me, too
18:15:20 * acozine has a cat thing to fix, BIAB
18:15:25 <felixfontein> the Ansible Jetbrains plugin had its last release over two years ago, I wonder whether it still works
18:16:06 <samccann> what about pycharm if they are the same thing?
18:16:31 <felixfontein> PyCharm is one of JetBrains IDEs
18:16:36 <felixfontein> it's even mentioned in the JetBrains entry
18:17:18 <felixfontein> btw, a TOC at the top of that document would be useful
18:17:27 <samccann> It also suggests we need to validate these tools before adding them (or remove some).
18:17:54 <felixfontein> yeah, which brings us to another part of the topic :) the question of which tools to actually include in this list
18:17:57 <cybette_> pycharm doesn't even have a link...
18:17:59 <samccann> do we remove ansible jetbrains? or should we be testing each of these?
18:19:30 <felixfontein> it's hard to properly test tools you don't know good enough... if they are not completely broken, you never know whether something doesn't work because it simply has never been implemented, or because it did work two years ago and now it doesn't
18:20:15 <samccann> that brings us to the meat of the question - how do we decide what to add and what to remove?
18:20:30 <felixfontein> https://github.com/MSDehghan/AnsiblePlugin/issues/22
18:20:37 <felixfontein> "Ansible 2.10+ support"
18:20:43 <felixfontein> that's for the JetBrains Ansible plugin
18:20:55 <felixfontein> the issue creator writes "Because with 2.14 there are a lot of changes and this plugin just not work with them."
18:21:20 <samccann> ok I'm inclined to remove JetBrains
18:22:23 <felixfontein> https://github.com/MSDehghan/AnsiblePlugin/issues/18#issuecomment-1166310964
18:22:39 <felixfontein> looks like one/the maintainer currently doesn't really have time
18:22:42 <samccann> but where does that leave the rest? We could put a disclaimer on any tool we aren't maintaining to say 'this is a curated list of tools community members have suggested. We can't guarantee they are kept up to date with Ansible release
18:24:31 <andersson007___> to have a disclamer sgtm
18:24:35 <cybette_> I think a disclaimer would be good
18:24:44 <felixfontein> simply removing everything we don't know is actively developed by folks we know would be one way to solve this, though a pretty extreme one
18:24:52 <felixfontein> and yes, having a disclaimer would be great!
18:25:07 <acozine> +1 to a disclaimer
18:25:30 <felixfontein> it also links to https://ansible.sivel.net/pr/byfile.html, which hasn't been updated for years
18:25:39 <felixfontein> (it still contains the pre-2.10 module hierarchy)
18:26:08 <acozine> could we have a policy of removing everything on a schedule (annually, maybe?) and then inviting people to submit PRs to add or re-add tools they use/like/know?
18:26:10 <samccann> There's this PR that I was waiting to merge based on our decisions but it got merged already - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/80263
18:26:13 <acozine> that would at least be fair
18:26:21 <maxamillion> felixfontein: +1
18:26:22 <andersson007___> and also tools supported by the community folks we know maintain their stuff (like Ara) or  RH like vscode extension should be imo marked as "OK" ?
18:26:30 <samccann> but it's a good case for - do we allow any PR that comes in (this one) or do we have some guidelines on what gets added?
18:26:40 <andersson007___> No guarantee of course:)
18:27:26 <acozine> samccann: yeah, an annual "refresh/start from scratch" doesn't solve that part of the problem
18:28:21 <samccann> there's also the erm.. awsome ansible repo that lists a bunch of tools
18:28:25 <acozine> I'd lean towards including things unless we know they're unmaintained, irrelevant, or otherwise problematic
18:28:46 <samccann> https://github.com/jdauphant/awesome-ansible
18:29:08 <samccann> we could also ask that person if we can add the full list there and then the docs only list what we maintain and point to that repo for everything else
18:29:10 <acozine> I'd rather have a few items in the list that are questionable than exclude a whole bunch of things in the name of purity
18:29:26 <samccann> The Ansible Purity Rules!!!!
18:29:42 <felixfontein> acozine: I agree
18:30:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:30:12 <samccann> ok so the decision is - add what comes in (like that PR) and remove things only when someone notices they aren't maintained... and add a disclaimer, yes?
18:30:17 <acozine> that awesome-ansible list was last updated 8 months ago . . .
18:30:45 <andersson007___> we can just put a link to awesome ansible in the page instead of the current content:)
18:30:53 <cybette_> this is the current awesome-ansible repo https://github.com/ansible-community/awesome-ansible
18:31:00 <cybette_> moved to ansible-community 8 months ago
18:31:11 <samccann> oh we have a bad link lol thanks!
18:31:18 <felixfontein> if the awesome-ansible list would live in gh.com/ansible-community replacing the page with a link to awesome-ansible would be OK IMO
18:31:25 <felixfontein> lol ok
18:31:42 <felixfontein> maybe https://github.com/jdauphant/awesome-ansible should be updated to point to https://github.com/ansible-community/awesome-ansible :D
18:32:18 <andersson007___> +1
18:32:19 <felixfontein> though... are these two lists actually related?
18:32:39 <samccann> ok so we have two options on the table- keep the existing list (with fixes) or replace most of the list with pointer to the new awesom ansible
18:32:39 <maxamillion> +1 for the ansible-community/awesome-ansible .... that page doesn't get enough fanfare
18:32:40 <cybette_> hmm maybe not, I'm not sure. but I know we moved someone's repo over :)
18:33:04 <felixfontein> cybette_: in that case it's likely another unrelated awesome-ansible list
18:33:15 <cybette_> yeah
18:33:44 <felixfontein> maybe we should ask the person curating https://github.com/jdauphant/awesome-ansible whether they want to join forces with https://github.com/ansible-community/awesome-ansible#books
18:33:56 <andersson007___> the doc page could contain a link to awesome ansible + a call for action to add new items if the reader knows great tools missed
18:34:18 <acozine> could someone do a comparison of the three lists? so we could see items included in all 3, items included in only 2 of the 3, items included in only 1 of the 3?
18:34:53 <samccann> my vote would be if we decide to go w/ awesome ansible (the community one) we can just update that list with whatever is missing that we take off that docs page
18:35:16 <cybette_> I think it was originally from https://github.com/KeyboardInterrupt/
18:35:27 <acozine> sounds okay to me samccann
18:35:30 <felixfontein> I like samccann's proposal
18:35:38 <andersson007___> samccann: +1
18:35:55 <cybette_> sounds good samccann +1
18:36:10 <samccann> cool thanks! I'll summarize in the topic
18:37:36 <felixfontein> cool :)
18:39:20 * andersson007___ wishes all topics would be like this one
18:39:37 * andersson007___ in terms of agreement
18:39:44 <felixfontein> yes :D
18:40:52 <felixfontein> samccann: btw, it's only one of the two jetbrains plugins that isn't actively maintained - the other had a new version end of last year
18:42:25 <samccann> ok thanks
18:42:58 <felixfontein> ok, so do you all want to start some more controversial discussion (about moving stuff from collections in Ansible to collections outside), or should we instead start an early Open Floor and maybe even stop early?
18:43:13 <felixfontein> (or does someone have another suggestion what to discuss?)
18:43:20 <andersson007___> one small announcement
18:43:27 <andersson007___> 10 seconds please
18:43:30 <felixfontein> #topic open floor
18:43:39 <felixfontein> then I'll change to open floor so it doesn't end up in the above topic :)
18:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:45:02 <andersson007___> #info we'd like to ask you all to review new community website MVP document https://hackmd.io/@ansible-community/new-website-concept , any feedback will be much appreciated!
18:45:23 <cybette_> thanks andersson007___ :)
18:45:42 <felixfontein> more new sites :)
18:46:36 <maxamillion> TO THE WEB
18:46:39 <maxamillion> .... >.>
18:47:02 <andersson007___> hehe
18:47:19 <andersson007___> site overflow
18:48:09 <felixfontein> 201 Created
18:48:25 * andersson007___ the key word is "all"
18:51:59 * andersson007___ :)
18:53:32 <samccann> got quiet here.. time to end the meeting?
18:53:51 <felixfontein> sounds good to me
18:53:56 <felixfontein> any last words?
18:54:02 <felixfontein> #endmeeting