18:00:16 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:00:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May  3 18:00:16 2023 UTC.
18:00:16 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:16 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:16 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:00:16 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
18:00:16 <felixfontein> Landrash[m], acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, ascherbaum, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, wbentley15[m], zbr: The Ansible community meeting is starting
18:00:22 <felixfontein> now!
18:00:24 <felixfontein> The ping list is stored at https://kutt.it/meeting-people. Feel free to add or remove yourself.
18:00:27 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
18:00:31 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
18:00:57 <felixfontein> #info Ansible 8.0.0a3 has been released (https://groups.google.com/g/ansible-project/c/6d0snXswKkk/).
18:01:05 <andersson007___> o/
18:01:07 <felixfontein> Please test this, especially if you're using an older setuptools.
18:01:10 <felixfontein> #chair andersson007___
18:01:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ felixfontein
18:01:18 <cybette_> o/
18:01:29 <acozine> o/
18:01:58 <felixfontein> #chair cybette_ acozine
18:01:58 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cybette_ felixfontein
18:02:13 <oranod> o/
18:02:18 <oranod> hi all
18:02:20 <cybette_> #info New release candidate: ansible-core 2.15.0rc2 https://groups.google.com/g/ansible-devel/c/FTvF-0llST8
18:02:32 <andersson007___> #info if someone wants to contribute, there's a vacant [PR](https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/74901) to finish with a nice feature to core
18:02:53 <felixfontein> #chair oranod
18:02:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cybette_ felixfontein oranod
18:03:28 <gotmax23> .hi
18:03:29 <zodbot> gotmax23: gotmax23 'Maxwell G' <maxwell@gtmx.me>
18:03:43 * andersson007___ has skipped a couple of meetings and thinks that kids are good for immune system but they often bring something that will surprise it
18:03:44 <gotmax23> Sorry I'm a little late. I'm having keyboard problems...
18:03:55 <andersson007___> gotmax23: coffee?
18:04:25 <gotmax23> My laptop's s keycap is broken
18:04:26 <oranod> I immediately thought keyboard = electric piano
18:04:31 <felixfontein> #chair gotmax23
18:04:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cybette_ felixfontein gotmax23 oranod
18:04:42 <gotmax23> I didn't spill anything on it thankfully
18:04:57 <felixfontein> good luck getting it fixed soon!
18:05:03 <andersson007___> +1
18:06:21 <felixfontein> so, does anyone want to discuss something specific?
18:06:22 <gotmax23> Thanks!
18:06:43 * andersson007___ is open to any topics
18:06:52 <resmo> o/
18:06:58 <felixfontein> #chair resmo
18:06:58 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cybette_ felixfontein gotmax23 oranod resmo
18:07:27 <gotmax23> I have https://github.com/ansible-community/ansible-build-data/issues/221
18:09:05 <felixfontein> I think that structure looks good; I'm wondering a bit how the first point will go together with the existing Removal from Ansible procedures documented somewhere else
18:10:01 <andersson007___> sgtm
18:11:37 <andersson007___> i think the removal policy should live on docs ansible com
18:12:03 <andersson007___> details relevant to release process itself can live in ansible=build=data
18:12:13 <andersson007___> (sorry Czech layout)
18:12:57 <andersson007___> i meant removal details
18:13:23 <pinotree[m]> o/ (lurking as usual though)
18:14:36 <felixfontein> #chair pinotree[m]
18:14:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cybette_ felixfontein gotmax23 oranod pinotree[m] resmo
18:15:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:16:12 <andersson007___> any other thoughts on the topic?:)
18:16:51 * gotmax23 is dealing with his keyboard so feel free to move on
18:17:08 <felixfontein> if the same content is only described in one place I'm happy ;)
18:17:17 <andersson007___> +1
18:17:36 <acozine> heh, yep
18:17:51 <andersson007___> +1 to general content on docs.ansible.com +1 to repo related details to ansible-build-data
18:18:59 <mariolenz[m]> Sounds like a good idea to me.
18:19:08 <felixfontein> #chair mariolenz[m]
18:19:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine andersson007___ cybette_ felixfontein gotmax23 mariolenz[m] oranod pinotree[m] resmo
18:19:23 <felixfontein> 'repo related details' = everything around the release process itself?
18:19:30 <andersson007___> yes
18:20:27 <gotmax23> I have https://github.com/ansible-community/ansible-build-data/pull/224 open to describe the tagging policy I brought up last week
18:20:57 <gotmax23> I started working locally on the docs/release-process.md part locally
18:21:05 <gotmax23> * I started locally working on the docs/release-process.md part
18:21:22 <gotmax23> I still need an ack on that first PR
18:21:41 <andersson007___> gotmax23: looks like a great work, thanks a lot!
18:21:48 <gotmax23> Other than that, nothing else from me
18:21:55 <gotmax23> Thanks andersson007___ :)
18:23:49 <felixfontein> I'll give it a quick look and merge
18:24:06 <andersson007___> 👍
18:24:59 <felixfontein> ok, added one small comment (which might end up in a bit more changes)
18:25:06 <gotmax23> Open floor or do we have any other planned topics?
18:25:52 <felixfontein> there's always the topic of moving things from collections in Ansible to collections outside
18:26:00 <andersson007___> :)
18:26:06 <acozine> I am basking in the spring sunshine and having a bit of trouble keeping my mind on work of any kindn
18:26:17 <acozine> so no topics from me
18:26:22 <felixfontein> with special case community.general.terraform -> cloud.terraform.terraform
18:26:34 <felixfontein> acozine: I hope you enjoy it :)
18:26:58 <acozine> thanks! it's payback for the long winter!
18:28:51 * felixfontein is currently having 'fun' with too many broken things, so I don't mind not discussing moving stuff today :)
18:28:57 <felixfontein> if nobody has a better idea:
18:28:59 <felixfontein> #topic open floor
18:29:54 * andersson007___ basks in the sunshine every morning at 5:30 a.m. blackout curtains don't help much
18:30:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:30:26 <mariolenz[m]> FYI I'm still trying to find unmaintained collections and have opened https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/223 and https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/225
18:30:37 <felixfontein> yeah, it's getting bright early nowadays, our cats also noticed and are now trying to wake us up earlier...
18:30:47 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: thanks a lot for that!
18:30:48 <gotmax23> Thanks for doing that mariolenz!
18:31:09 <mariolenz[m]> Not sure if there is anything to discuss, just wanted to let you know in case you haven't seen thos ;-)
18:32:31 <mariolenz[m]> Oh, I think I'm buying an 'e' :-P
18:32:36 <pinotree[m]> i have a "light topic/question" wrt modules in the community.general collection: `rhn_register` and `rhn_channel`
18:33:12 <pinotree[m]> they are specific to the old RHN, ie the CDN for Red Hat content that predated the existing RHSM
18:33:36 <pinotree[m]> in practice, those modules don't work anymore for RH, as RHN was discontinued years ago
18:34:00 <felixfontein> are there cases in which the modules could still work?
18:34:12 <andersson007___> not working ci and a missed branch are definitely reasons to exclude
18:34:51 <pinotree[m]> the small gotcha here is that SUSE forked Spacewalk, ie the upstream project of Satellite 5 (which used the "RHN" delivery internally), and it's currently developed as "SUSE manager"
18:35:08 <pinotree[m]> Satellite 5, from a RH POV, is EOL for many years now
18:35:22 <andersson007___> mariolenz[m]: let's follow the usual process, thanks for looking for those abandoned stuff
18:35:33 <felixfontein> sounds to me like the modules should be renamed and drop the RH part of the name
18:35:46 <felixfontein> (if SuSE wouldn't be there I would deprecate + remove them completely)
18:36:00 <pinotree[m]> so, while theoretically people could use the modules with SUSE manager, I'm not sure whether they actually work fine (maybe? dunno though), and whether anyone is actually using them
18:36:35 <felixfontein> hmm, we could also deprecate them with a long deprecation cycle, and mention in the deprecation message that in case folks are using them successfully with SuSE manager, they should create an issue so we can undeprecate and rename them
18:36:47 <felixfontein> and if nobody bothers to create an issue, they'll vanish eventually
18:36:51 <pinotree[m]> i was thinking: would it be possible to deprecate them for removal in a later not-so-close release (say 9.0.0), and see whether anyone potentially complains about that?
18:37:09 <pinotree[m]> would this ^ be "too harsh"?
18:37:39 <felixfontein> I think that's OK, though I'd probably move the deprecation out a bit further (10.0.0)
18:37:46 <felixfontein> (since some folks upgrade seldomly)
18:38:08 <pinotree[m]> what would be the rough estimation for 9.0.0 and 10.0.0?
18:39:04 <felixfontein> 7.0.0 is due next week, so 9.0.0 is due in ~one year, and 10.0.0 in ~1.5 years
18:40:15 <andersson007___> mariolenz[m]: i noticed that a main maintainer of netup collections (who's pretty responsive usually) is not watching the repo. Assigned the issue you opened to him. Hope it'll help.
18:40:16 <pinotree[m]> ack; how would i go about deprecating them so people would notice? a note in their documentation saying "deprecated, please contact us if you use this!"? some changelog fragment?
18:41:04 <felixfontein> pinotree[m]: deprecation consists of all of a) meta/runtime.yml deprecation, b) deprecation in DOCUMENTATION of the module (`deprecated:` record), c) changelog fragment (deprecated_features)
18:41:08 <pinotree[m]> (apologies for the potentially dumb question, RTFM references are appreciated too)
18:41:47 <gotmax23> there's no dumb questions!
18:42:00 <felixfontein> pinotree[m]: see https://github.com/ansible-collections/community.general/pull/5752/files for an example
18:42:24 <felixfontein> (I'm not sure there is a good manual reference for this, looking for an example in the past is easier for me ;) )
18:42:27 <pinotree[m]> wrt the changelog fragment: my understanding is that it would be used only for one version, so if i add the note now in eg version 7.0.0, people reading the release notes of 8.0.0 won't notice that
18:43:02 <pinotree[m]> is there something like a documentation page that lists all the things currently marked as deprecated?
18:43:16 <acozine> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/dev_guide/module_lifecycle.html#deprecating-modules-and-plugins-in-a-collection is the docs for deprecating in collections
18:43:19 <felixfontein> and here we go: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/dev_guide/module_lifecycle.html#deprecating-modules-and-plugins-in-a-collection
18:43:26 <felixfontein> acozine was faster :)
18:43:43 <gotmax23> 😃
18:43:50 <felixfontein> pinotree[m]: not really, I simply grepped for `deprecated:` ;)
18:44:14 <felixfontein> maybe we should mark modules/plugins as deprecated in the module/plugin indexes as well, so it's more obvious that they are deprecated
18:44:39 <andersson007___> yes, there are no dumb questions in this community. every question is good
18:44:46 <acozine> I don't think there's a ansible-doc --list-deprecated or anything
18:44:53 <pinotree[m]> hm ok; maybe it would be a good idea to have? this way people can browse the (online) documentation, and they would always be able to know what is deprecated
18:45:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:45:01 <felixfontein> I created an issue for that for antsibull-docs: https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull-core/issues/83
18:45:11 <acozine> but I think we did mark them in the docs somehow
18:45:11 <mariolenz[m]> andersson007__: Not watching the repo sounds a bit like "unmaintained" to me ;-P
18:45:21 <andersson007___> any participation is appreciated here
18:45:22 <felixfontein> pinotree[m]: if you look at the page for the specific plugin/module, you can see it
18:45:32 <acozine> an unwatched repo will never self-deprecate
18:45:33 <gotmax23> felixfontein: did you mean to open that in antsibull-core?
18:45:43 <andersson007___> mariolenz[m]: yes, though in their particular case they have so many repos:)
18:46:03 <pinotree[m]> felixfontein: right, you have to open the docs of each thing though; so unless you know what you are looking for, you won't notice that
18:46:03 <andersson007___> can be easy to miss something:)
18:46:32 <felixfontein> gotmax23: nope.... thanks for spotting, I'll move it :)
18:46:55 <pinotree[m]> IMHO with a single doc page, you can open it and get a single list with everything deprecated, and scroll it to find whether there is anything you are using
18:46:55 <felixfontein> and https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull-docs/issues/141 it is ;)
18:47:42 <felixfontein> feel free to add more ideas to https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull-docs/issues/141
18:48:02 <pinotree[m]> ack, thanks!
18:48:28 <pinotree[m]> i think i have enough info, thanks everyone!
18:48:48 <pinotree[m]> (hope i did not take time for some other discussions)
18:48:50 <andersson007___> 👍
18:49:45 <andersson007___> pinotree[m]: never worry about that:)
18:52:27 <andersson007___> also we're always happy to get feedback  on the community topics  https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/ , fyi
18:53:06 <andersson007___> feels like a proper time to advertise Steering committee a bit https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/community/steering/community_steering_committee.html :))
18:53:25 <pinotree[m]> xD
18:53:42 <pinotree[m]> i'm not that involved yet for those :)
18:54:11 <andersson007___> pinotree[m]: any feedback whenever you can would be much appreciated:)
18:55:08 <andersson007___> cool, 6 minutes, any other quick thoughts/statements for the open floor?
18:56:29 <pinotree[m]> ah, i see that https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/20 is kind of related to the discussion; maybe later this week i can some thought (if not there already)
19:00:39 <felixfontein> yeah, that's one of the many loose ends we have :)
19:00:44 <felixfontein> ok, I think that's it for today
19:00:46 <felixfontein> #endmeeting