18:00:07 <felixfontein> #startmeeting Ansible Community Meeting
18:00:07 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jun 28 18:00:07 2023 UTC.
18:00:07 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:00:07 <zodbot> The chair is felixfontein. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:00:07 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:00:07 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_community_meeting'
18:00:07 <felixfontein> #topic Agenda https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679
18:00:11 <andersson007___> o/
18:00:11 <felixfontein> Landrash[m], Leo[m], acozine, andersson007_, anwesha, ascherbaum, baptistemm, bcoca, briantist, cidrblock, cyberpear, cybette, dericcrago, dmsimard, felixfontein, geerlingguy, gotmax, gundalow, gwmngilfen, ikhan_, jillr, jtanner, lmodemal, mariolenz[m], markuman, maxamillion, misc, nitzmahone, ompragash, oranod, resmo, russoz, samccann, thaumos, wbentley15[m], zbr: The Ansible community
18:00:17 <felixfontein> meeting is starting now!
18:00:19 <felixfontein> The ping list is stored at https://kutt.it/meeting-people. Feel free to add or remove yourself.
18:00:23 <felixfontein> #info Agenda: https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/679 / Topics: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics
18:00:25 * andersson007___ is finally here again
18:00:26 <felixfontein> #topic Updates
18:00:28 <felixfontein> #chair andersson007___
18:00:28 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ felixfontein
18:00:28 <gotmax23> .hi
18:00:29 <zodbot> gotmax23: gotmax23 'Maxwell G' <maxwell@gtmx.me>
18:00:31 <felixfontein> welcome back andersson007___ :)
18:00:31 <mariolenz[m]> o/
18:00:37 <anwesha[m]> Hello everyone
18:00:39 <felixfontein> #chair gotmax23 mariolenz[m] anwesha[m]
18:00:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ anwesha[m] felixfontein gotmax23 mariolenz[m]
18:00:41 <andersson007___> felixfontein: thanks:)
18:00:48 <gotmax23> We have a good amount of topics today :)
18:00:57 <andersson007___> cool:)
18:01:02 <jtanner> 0_o
18:01:13 <felixfontein> #chair jtanner
18:01:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ anwesha[m] felixfontein gotmax23 jtanner mariolenz[m]
18:01:23 <cybette_> o/
18:01:48 <oranod> o/
18:01:48 <gotmax23> I see
18:01:51 <felixfontein> #chair cybette_ oranod
18:01:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: andersson007___ anwesha[m] cybette_ felixfontein gotmax23 jtanner mariolenz[m] oranod
18:01:57 <oranod> hi everyone
18:02:05 <gotmax23> Having only single release in one day #248
18:02:05 <gotmax23> Making community docs a separate project to ansible/ansible #243
18:02:05 <gotmax23> GitHub Actions CI contention #237
18:02:09 <gotmax23> 👋
18:02:31 <felixfontein> let's start with the single release one
18:02:38 <gotmax23> Ack
18:02:49 <felixfontein> #topic Having only single Ansible release in one day
18:02:54 <felixfontein> #info Discussion: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/248
18:03:01 <gotmax23> Should we wait a couple minutes for folks to file in?
18:03:57 <cybette_> should we info the 7.7.0 and 8.1.0 releases?
18:04:01 <felixfontein> #undo
18:04:01 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by felixfontein at 18:02:54 : Discussion: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/248
18:04:02 <felixfontein> #undo
18:04:02 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x7f1e01746c88>
18:04:14 <felixfontein> right, they happened last week, but after last week's meeting...
18:04:23 <gotmax23> Ah, right
18:05:04 <gotmax23> #info ansible 8.1.0 has been released: https://groups.google.com/g/ansible-announce/c/iN-qliVQTbU
18:05:06 <felixfontein> #info Ansible 7.7.0 was released (https://groups.google.com/g/ansible-project/c/uTZ0dRAjcqY). This is the last 7.x.y release, and Ansible 7 is now EOL.
18:05:18 <gotmax23> 🎉
18:05:22 <cybette_> thanks :)
18:05:25 <felixfontein> one less version to worry about :)
18:05:33 <andersson007___> thanks everyone involved!
18:05:39 <gotmax23> Indeed!
18:06:01 <andersson007___> great:)
18:06:23 <felixfontein> ok, should we start with the first topic?
18:06:26 <gotmax23> Back to #248?
18:07:24 <felixfontein> #topic Having only single Ansible release in one day
18:07:27 <felixfontein> #info Discussion: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/248
18:07:31 <andersson007___> are there any concerns about having one release a day than more? trying to understand the context. If no concerns, I'm +1:)
18:07:41 <Leo[m]> hi all
18:07:58 <cybette_> I think anwesha can provide more insights
18:07:59 <anwesha[m]> Doing 2 releases in the past has been a lot of pressure for a day. Can we split it in 2 days?
18:08:06 <gotmax23> I'd rather move forward on https://github.com/ansible-community/community-team/issues/160 and open up the process to the community so one person can do one and another can do the other
18:08:17 <mariolenz[m]> Personally, I think it would have been OK to release 7.7.0 one day after 8.1.0. But I would keep this order, first the new release of the latest stable.
18:08:26 <gotmax23> But I definitely agree that one person shouldn't have to do two releases in the same day
18:08:29 <gotmax23> It's a lot :)
18:08:32 <andersson007___> gotmax23: sgtm
18:08:59 <Leo[m]> mariolenz[m]: +1
18:08:59 <cybette_> this happens when pre-releases start for Ansible x+1 while the Ansible x releases are still ongoing, and continues until Ansible x+1 goes GA (and Ansible x will have one final minor release)
18:09:08 <gotmax23> Right
18:09:12 <felixfontein> I agree, two releases on one day are a lot. especially if things happen like a very slow internet connection...
18:09:27 <acozine> sorry, I can't participate today
18:09:34 <gotmax23> That's okay
18:09:48 <andersson007___> sure acozine
18:09:52 <felixfontein> originally 7.7.0 and 8.1.0 would have been a week apart (in the roadmap), but then an ansible-core release was moved...
18:10:03 <felixfontein> #chair Leo[m]
18:10:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: Leo[m] andersson007___ anwesha[m] cybette_ felixfontein gotmax23 jtanner mariolenz[m] oranod
18:11:19 <andersson007___> do you think we should vote on the topic? i don't think so as there's no rule to release things in one day or it is?
18:11:36 <anwesha[m]> Is it okay, in future, the minor release of stable version goes the day after the pre-release goes?
18:12:07 <gotmax23> What would we vote on? Is there a ROADMAP document that we need to change?
18:12:10 <felixfontein> anwesha[m]: I would do it the other way around, as mariolenz[m] suggested above
18:12:17 <gotmax23> anwesha: I'd prefer the other way around
18:12:53 <andersson007___> gotmax23: ah, ok, if we voted on the roadmap, we should vote on its change, i guess
18:13:32 <anwesha[m]> Okay first the stable version and then the pre-release on the next day, right?
18:13:42 <gotmax23> I don't think we need to vote on it
18:13:50 <gotmax23> But we definitely should update the roadmap so it's still acurate
18:13:51 <gotmax23> Yeah
18:13:56 <felixfontein> IMO delaying a release for 1-2 days should usually be in the RM's discretion (at least if it doesn't happen way too often ;) )
18:14:06 <gotmax23> Agreed
18:14:36 <cybette_> 01
18:14:41 <cybette_> +1
18:15:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:15:23 <felixfontein> how about a general rule, current stable release usually happens on Tuesday, if another release (pre-release, old stable release) happens in the same week it should usually happen on Wednesday?
18:15:56 <felixfontein> that together with some discretion for the RM to delay based on personal reasons and other suprises (like broken CI/infrastructure/...) should cover probably most cases
18:16:04 <cybette_> sounds good, keeping the stable release on the expected date ++
18:16:36 <anwesha[m]> felixfontein: This plan looks good (very good) to me :).
18:16:40 <felixfontein> mentioning this in the roadmap would even keep the changes required to the roadmap minimal, since then it's clear that releases can be delayed a bit if another release happens in the same week
18:16:57 <andersson007___> sgtm
18:17:01 <gotmax23> Cool!
18:17:07 <andersson007___> minimal and flexible
18:17:12 <felixfontein> should we formally vote on this?
18:17:31 <gotmax23> #action $PERSON to update https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/blob/devel/docs/docsite/rst/roadmap/COLLECTIONS_9.rst to mention that releases can be delayed
18:17:41 <felixfontein> I guess as a start I (or someone else) could create a PR to update the Ansible 8 and 9 roadmaps with a note on this
18:17:52 <felixfontein> :+1:
18:18:22 <andersson007___> i'm +0 for vote, w/o works for me
18:18:22 <gotmax23> I guess we can rubber stamp it
18:18:34 <gotmax23> but I'm fine with just merging after a couple people look over the PR
18:18:40 <andersson007___> +1
18:18:54 <cybette_> +1
18:19:04 <felixfontein> +1 for me as well. if anyone objects, we can still have a vote
18:19:09 <felixfontein> of nobody objects, so be it :)
18:19:12 <andersson007___> yep
18:19:12 <gotmax23> Cool
18:19:12 <felixfontein> s/of/if/
18:19:33 <felixfontein> I can create a PR if nobody else wants to
18:19:51 <mariolenz[m]> I don't think we need a vote, but I wouldn't mind. Since we're agreed, I don't think we need one.
18:20:04 <felixfontein> #action felixfontein create PR to update roadmaps
18:20:16 <andersson007___> thanks!
18:20:23 <anwesha[m]> Thank you felixfontein
18:20:25 <felixfontein> not everyone is in this meeting, but they can still object to it before it gets merged
18:20:43 <gotmax23> Yeah, just post a link to it in the community-topics issue
18:20:50 <andersson007___> yep
18:20:52 <felixfontein> will do
18:21:13 <gotmax23> While we're talking about docs, I guess we can move on to  Making community docs a separate project to ansible/ansible #243  :)
18:21:15 <felixfontein> should we talk about GHA next, or about the docsite?
18:21:27 <felixfontein> ok
18:21:34 <felixfontein> #topic Making community docs a separate project to ansible/ansible
18:21:57 <felixfontein> #info Discussion: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/243
18:22:02 <mariolenz[m]> Maybe announce it on Bullhorn. If people don't read it, we've at least made it somehow official.
18:22:40 <oranod> I've got a bit of an update on #243 if you want me to go ahead. not sure if folks had other questions or discussion topics there.
18:22:50 <felixfontein> oranod: sure, go ahead!
18:22:53 * andersson007___ oranod burning the floor
18:23:01 * gotmax23 hands the proverbial mic to Don Naro
18:23:32 * felixfontein looks for the fire extinguisher ;)
18:23:52 <andersson007___> hehe
18:23:53 <oranod> first thing is that we'll end the two week "trial period" that samccann mentioned in the issue tomorrow. we've identified a date of July 10 for the actual split to take place.
18:24:20 <oranod> the actual split will basically mean merging this PR to ansible/ansible: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/81011
18:25:40 <felixfontein> will that be backported to stable-2.15? or at least a subset of it?
18:26:04 <oranod> does July 10 sound reasonable to anyone? we've been publishing to "docs.ansible.com" from the ansible-documentation repo without any hiccups and those pipelines all seem fine
18:26:41 <andersson007___> no objections from me:)
18:26:41 <oranod> felixfontein: thanks for clarifying. yes, that is my understanding. in fact I believe it will be backported to stable-2.14 and stable-2.13 as well
18:27:06 <gotmax23> I don't understand. We moved over to ansible-documentation, and now we're moving back to ansible-core, and then back again to ansible-documentation in 2 weeks?
18:27:57 <felixfontein> gotmax23: I understood it differently, that we keep using ansible-documentation, and that the move is finalized by removing everything from ansible/ansible on July 10
18:28:15 <oranod> sorry, I mean that docs/docsite will be removed from ansible/ansible in the devel branch as well as stable-2.15, 2.14, and 2.13
18:28:32 <gotmax23> Ah, that makes a lot more sense :)
18:28:33 <andersson007___> it's like it's scary to press the green button in core:)
18:28:41 <gotmax23> That sounds good to me
18:28:46 <oranod> great
18:29:15 <oranod> next item is the to do list before the split, which is available in hackMD here: https://hackmd.io/c9SEj2FaRvKF5UhXNl9NtA#To-do-before-split
18:30:00 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:30:08 <oranod> of particular concern to this group are the items to reduce contributor overhead from the separate docs repo and the proposal to ensure technical stewardship of the community docs
18:32:05 <oranod> I'd invite folks to check out the details in the linked issues in the hackMD and let me know if you have any thoughts/concerns/criticisms or whatever
18:32:38 <oranod> and please also point out anything else you feel needs to take place or be considered before the July 10 split occurs
18:33:35 <anwesha[m]> Sorry folks I have to log off today, need to find some dinner.
18:33:50 <felixfontein> anwesha[m]: enjoy dinner!
18:33:56 <oranod> last question is to gotmax23 I got admin access to the `ansible-documentation` repo now and have discovered that I can add folks and give permissions. I commented here: https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/243#issuecomment-1609827614
18:33:56 <felixfontein> and the remainder of the evening :)
18:34:04 <oranod> see you anwesha
18:34:23 <gotmax23> So is the idea here to add every SC member as a committer?
18:34:42 <felixfontein> adding folks individually is a bit messy, it's easier to add a group... but I don't think you can add a group from another GH org
18:35:14 <andersson007___> there are already two afaik:)
18:35:16 <anwesha[m]> Thanks you everyone.
18:35:27 <oranod> yeah it's easier to add a group. I'm just trying to see if this addresses the need of the SC or do we need to go further and break things out into the ansible-community org
18:36:44 <felixfontein> PR for the first topic: https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/pull/39
18:37:36 <felixfontein> oranod: I think having (more) access is already a great first step. it probably makes sense to let the dust settle a bit to figure out which parts should maybe move somewhere else (for example gh.com/ansible-community/)
18:38:07 <felixfontein> I guess some parts need to stay in gh.com/ansible/, since it includes the (non-community) docs for ansible-core itself as well
18:41:03 <oranod> sounds good. maybe not too much for discussion just now but I wanted to point that out about the access.
18:41:18 <oranod> that's it for me on the topic unless anyone else has something to add
18:41:20 <oranod> thanks
18:41:21 <felixfontein> I'm personally already very happy that this allows to upgrade antsibull-docs more often, though of course the other things are also great ;-)
18:41:54 <andersson007___> great progress with the doc stuff
18:42:04 <cybette_> indeed, great stuff, thanks Don Naro !
18:42:10 <andersson007___> +1
18:42:23 <Leo[m]> Don Naro ++  🎉
18:42:47 <Leo[m]> and samccann as well :) teamwork++
18:43:02 <felixfontein> yes, thanks everyone who worked on this! :)
18:43:03 <andersson007___> 👍
18:43:51 <gotmax23> Indeed!
18:45:01 <remindbot[m]> @cybette:ansible.im cyb-clock chimes every 15 minutes during the community meeting
18:45:04 <oranod> samccann: ++ the core team have been super supportive and helpful with all of this too, just to give credit where it is deserved. mattclay has really enabled most of it.
18:45:32 <oranod> I'm just trying to help
18:45:50 <felixfontein> mattclay: webknjaz: and everyone else involved, thanks a lot as well! :)
18:46:33 <felixfontein> ok, anything else on this topic? or should we switch to the next one (GHA)?
18:47:31 <felixfontein> #topic GitHub Actions CI contention
18:47:34 <felixfontein> #info https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/237
18:48:33 <felixfontein> btw, do we have stats how many minutes of CI we're currently using per month?
18:49:17 * andersson007___ having a reminder to read it tomorrow morning
18:49:26 <cybette_> we have explored some of the options and put forward a couple of suggestions and we'd like to hear your feedback
18:50:57 <cybette_> not sure if Gwmngilfen has some stats
18:51:25 * andersson007___ thinks Greg always has some stats
18:51:52 * andersson007___ in pocket
18:52:29 <Leo[m]> Gwmngilfen: did a summary comment a couple of hours ago, for those who haven't checked the gh issue
18:52:43 <felixfontein> I agree with andersson007___ ;)
18:53:00 <andersson007___> :)
18:53:01 <felixfontein> I guess self-hosted runners are by far the cheapest option
18:53:09 <Leo[m]> https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/237#issuecomment-1611705596
18:53:18 <Leo[m]> that's the summary in case you all want the TLDR
18:53:35 <felixfontein> the main downside is having to administer them yourself...
18:53:59 <felixfontein> and then there's GitHub's warning "We recommend that you only use self-hosted runners with private repositories."
18:54:09 <Leo[m]> felixfontein: From my quick calculator tests, I think so too. Although that involves extra maintenance and that cost is not easy to take into account
18:54:38 <felixfontein> Leo[m]: exactly...
18:55:11 <felixfontein> renting some dedicated hardware is cheap, the expensive part is administering the stuff
18:56:40 <Leo[m]> felixfontein: we might not need to rent hardware either, maybe we can piggyback on some cloud/infra shared by other projects (fedora comes to mind... again)
18:57:54 <Leo[m]> I saw something about donations in the GH issue as well for sh-runners I find it shouldn't be mutually exclusive, we could have the Team plan + self-hosted donations and ramp-up/down each other depending on the experience with the maintenance/cost
18:58:46 <cybette_> please add your thoughts to the github issue! and I'll ping greg to see if he can share some stats :)
18:59:26 <andersson007___> :)
19:00:11 <felixfontein> cool!
19:00:18 <felixfontein> any last comments? or should we close the meeting?
19:00:27 <mariolenz[m]> I don't remember who it was, but someone suggested to release The Bullhorn only every second week during the summer since there aren't so many news at the moment. Is this something we should discuss here? I would prefer weekly issues even if there are not many news in it, but I can live with every second week.
19:00:28 <mariolenz[m]> I just want to know when the next issue will be released because I [see some votes in the next couple of weeks](https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/128#issuecomment-1507223524). And I'd like to set the end date to something after the vote has been announced in Bullhorn ;-)
19:00:40 <cybette_> it was me
19:01:04 <felixfontein> mariolenz[m]: it's a bit late to discuss that now, since the meeting should end at this moment :)
19:01:08 <cybette_> I plan to keep it weekly, and maybe in august when I take some PTO it will have a week or two off but I will announce in advance
19:01:15 <mariolenz[m]> Not really important, just wanted to mention it.
19:01:23 <felixfontein> #endmeeting