14:05:43 <gundalow> #startmeeting Ansible Docs Hackathon
14:05:43 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul  7 14:05:43 2020 UTC.
14:05:43 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:05:43 <zodbot> The chair is gundalow. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:05:43 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:05:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_docs_hackathon'
14:06:02 <samccann> woot woot!
14:06:07 <gundalow> #chair acozine samccann felixfontein resmo
14:06:07 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine felixfontein gundalow resmo samccann
14:06:30 <samccann> We've got multiple ideas for docs help over on https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/virtual-ansible-contributor-summit-july-2020
14:06:39 <samccann> (scroll down to the July 7th hackathon list)
14:06:53 * gregdek hullos
14:07:09 * samccann digs up something special for gregdek to fix
14:07:13 <samccann> ;-)
14:07:22 <acozine> #chair gundalow gregdek
14:07:22 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine felixfontein gregdek gundalow resmo samccann
14:07:35 <gregdek> Oo!
14:08:20 <acozine> gregdek: are you drunk with power yet?
14:08:42 <gregdek> I try not to get drunk with power until after noon.
14:09:05 <bcoca> power is a nice guy, but he does not keep top shelf in his bar
14:09:23 <gundalow> ok, what's the plan?
14:09:28 <samccann> sure she does.. right behind the 'don't let bcoca see the good stuff' sign
14:09:32 <acozine> heh
14:09:32 * bcoca is making mojitos
14:09:55 <baptistemm> drink coding is not a  law infrightment ?
14:09:55 <samccann> my nickel is we start with 'what does gundalow want'
14:10:08 <baptistemm> s/drink/drunk/
14:10:11 <samccann> aka the first time on the list - moving prs/issues
14:10:29 <bcoca> baptistemm: in some cases, sober coding is the infringment
14:10:31 <gundalow> samccann: haha, I approve
14:11:23 <samccann> #topic Docs to help understand moved issues/prs
14:11:41 <samccann> #info reviewing the last comment here to generalize - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/70488
14:11:42 <acozine> I started updating the main RST docs to reflect collections - https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/70488/files is my first look at the Community pages, which have not had much attention paid to them recently
14:11:55 <gregdek> Can I just ask a bunch of rambly questions of people? Is that ok?
14:12:01 <acozine> gregdek: ramble away
14:12:13 * samccann munches morning popcorn and waits for the ramble
14:12:33 <gundalow> So I think there are a few related things here
14:12:33 <gundalow> 1) Directing people where to go (ie, how to find the repos)
14:12:33 <gundalow> 2) Guiding people on how to do Collection development (assuming they knew gh/ansible/ansible development)
14:12:33 <gundalow> 3) Drafting some text that the bot can add on gh/a/a that links to `1` & `2` to help people understand
14:12:54 <gregdek> OK, rambly question 1: is core already moving or redirecting issues, and how are they doing it?
14:13:14 <bcoca> how: bot
14:13:44 <acozine> gregdek: see https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/70493#issuecomment-654688903 for example
14:13:44 <gregdek> Is the bot closing with a pointer to the new repo, or closing with a "find the repo" game?
14:14:16 <gregdek> Ah. So that's mkrizek. Is that a manual process, then?
14:14:19 <samccann> #info need to direct people where to go (new collection repo), guide them on how to develop collections, and draft text for a bo to add on ansible/ansible that links to these two items to help people understand
14:14:49 <samccann> afaik it's manual until we do what gundalow sez above. then a bot can have at it
14:15:03 <acozine> gregdek: all the ones I'm finding are manual, see https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/70489#issuecomment-654567958 for another example
14:15:07 <gregdek> OK, so bcoca, are there some issues that are bot driven?
14:15:20 <gregdek> Or were you saying you aspire for them to be bot driven? :)
14:15:44 <bcoca> gregdek: are/will be, most of the redirection of tickets in ansible/ansible to collections will be/are handled by bot using galaxy data
14:15:51 <gundalow> gregdek: Currently the Bot adds `label/needs_collection_redirect` and one or more `label/collection:community.general` labels, ie https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/69679
14:16:05 <gregdek> So it looks like in the first case, mkrizek pointed them to the new repo to file and issue, and in the second case, akasurde actually moved the issue for them -- is that right?
14:16:11 <bcoca> ^ at one point we'll switch to closing those issues
14:16:28 <bcoca> gregdek: no, we will try to avoid humans doing it
14:16:50 <gregdek> Ok, so the current process is roughly (1) label gets added, (2) humans triage and move/close?
14:16:53 <gregdek> Is that right?
14:17:06 <bcoca> or 'do nothing' so bot will take care of it later
14:17:06 <acozine> here's the bot comment: https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2
14:17:14 <gundalow> yes, though once we are happy (2) will be done by bot, using ^ template
14:17:27 <acozine> the bot comment looks like it's ready when we are
14:17:44 <bcoca> we are mostly waiting to be happy with 'bot accuracy'
14:18:10 <gregdek> Are we doing the same with PRs?
14:18:43 <gundalow> gregdek: yup, exactly the same process for PRs
14:18:47 <bcoca> no distinction
14:18:57 <samccann> # info bot will add the following comment to closed issues/PRs - https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2
14:19:13 <gundalow> samccann: need to remove space
14:19:20 <samccann> heh
14:19:28 <gregdek> Is everyone ok with the bot copy?
14:19:32 <samccann> #info bot will add the following comment to closed issues/PRs - https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2
14:19:45 <samccann> bot copy points to an .md file.
14:19:51 * acozine looks at the link it's pointing to
14:20:03 <samccann> So I assume we should update that file with the links gundalow requested at the start of this meeting
14:20:04 <gundalow> I approve that https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2 doesn't actually contain much info as it's impossible to change later.
14:20:12 <gregdek> Because it seems like this process is basically fine and works-ish, and will be improved in the future with the bot, and corner cases will get triaged as needed, and people are being directed to the right places?
14:20:39 <gregdek> And perhaps the only question is what copy we want in that template, exactly?
14:20:42 <bcoca> for some definition of 'right'
14:20:47 <gregdek> Heh.
14:21:18 <bcoca> this assumes a) colleciton is on galaxy b) there is repo info in galaxy c) there is actual public repo accessible to users
14:21:23 <samccann> Should we vote on if we are fine w/ the bot comment?
14:21:36 <gundalow> gregdek: bot template should be smallest amount of text. Need to remember that it might be a day or a year(s) till someone reads it and acts on it.
14:21:36 <gundalow> Therefore we can't change that text
14:21:47 <acozine> at a minimum we should include the "Contributing to Ansible-maintained collections" as a link on that markdown page
14:21:53 <samccann> I disagree
14:21:59 <gundalow> https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md <- is where the work needs to be done
14:22:00 <samccann> oh sorry i agree hehe
14:22:32 <acozine> gundalow: either that, or we move that content onto an rst page and change the link to point to the content there
14:23:01 <samccann> i vote to leave it as the md for now
14:23:07 <gregdek> Just so the first interaction is simple, polite, and provides clear next steps for remedy, I think it's fine.
14:23:22 <gundalow> acozine: sure, I'm happy for https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md to move elsewhere. Thought not a `/latest/` link as they needs backports
14:23:24 <samccann> i can so totally see Future Me modifying an rst file, forgetting what is pointing to it
14:23:38 <gundalow> I'd like us to get the location of the file right first time
14:23:50 <bcoca> samccann: leave comment in rst that tells you 'what points here'
14:23:52 <samccann> whereas the .md file is off on its own, so we won't mistakenly update it
14:24:41 <gundalow> bcoca: +1
14:24:57 <samccann> yes, but I'm also in favor of keeping docs in the repo that relfects it, in this case, keep it in ansibullbot
14:25:21 <samccann> s/relfects/reflects
14:25:56 <samccann> not a hill i'm willing to die on, but that's my thought process on this one
14:26:12 <gundalow> POLL: Are we happy with the text in https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2 (ignoring the fact that the linked guide may move location)
14:26:15 <gundalow> +1
14:26:28 <samccann> +1
14:27:08 <acozine> +1
14:27:09 * bcoca is never happy, so can be ignored in this case
14:27:17 <samccann> heh
14:27:47 <acozine> https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/pull/1389
14:28:28 <samccann> thanks for that!
14:28:45 <gregdek> +1
14:29:51 <acozine> samccann: I agree about documenting bot behavior in bot docs
14:31:26 <samccann> so looks like we are fine with the comment. Next decision is to keep the docs in the bot repo or move them to .rst?
14:31:42 <gundalow> could stay in the repo *and* be RST
14:31:52 <samccann> ugh
14:32:10 <samccann> that leaves two place to track in case someone makes a change in either
14:32:35 <baptistemm> gundalow: about  https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2 I would add a small text before why the file were migrated (I like to give the Why) like "Ansible repository was split in several repositories"
14:32:41 <samccann> I'd rather we for example, mention 'migrated issues/prs' in .rst with a pointer to the bot docs... or move the bot docs into rst
14:32:48 * baptistemm is lagging due to $ work day
14:33:23 <baptistemm> or even linking to a announce on the google group
14:33:56 <gundalow> I have to drop to talk to a recruiter, I'll be back in ~30
14:34:05 <samccann> ok thanks gundalow !
14:35:31 <samccann> so for someone completely unaware of the haps in ansible land, yes, it would help to have a short sentence to say ansible/ansible split into multiple repos.
14:36:40 <acozine> should we get rid of the markdown page and just put that content directly in the comment?
14:37:08 <acozine> hm, it's a bit long for that
14:37:11 <samccann> yeah
14:37:21 <acozine> but maybe put the first paragraph and the links into the comment?
14:37:31 <acozine> and leave the rest of the FAQ in the markdown?
14:37:39 <acozine> that would be fewer clicks
14:37:45 <samccann> I think it can be easier than that
14:38:15 <samccann> just modify the first sentence to say why.
14:38:32 <gregdek> I always favor more clarity in the actual issue, even if some think it's a bit wordy...
14:38:43 <gregdek> I know others disagree :)
14:38:49 <gregdek> (some others, anyway)
14:38:56 <bcoca> other others
14:39:11 <bcoca> there is ballance between clarity and longevity in this case
14:40:33 <gregdek> As much clarity as possible in the short, with a link to the longer explanation for those who need it, I suppose
14:40:33 <samccann> "Thank you very much for your interest in Ansible. Ansible has migrated much of the content into separate repositories to allow for more rapid, independent development. We are closing this issue/PR because this content has been moved to a separate collection repository."
14:40:46 <gregdek> wfm
14:40:50 <acozine> +1
14:40:56 <gregdek> (with link to more info I assume)
14:41:20 <acozine> same link below, from which the user can follow links to the blog post and/or the docs pages
14:41:43 <gundalow> back
14:41:46 <baptistemm> 1
14:41:53 <acozine> gundalow: that was a quick 30 minutes!
14:42:00 <baptistemm> acozine: indeed
14:42:27 <gundalow> acozine: they were very efficient
14:43:01 <samccann> ok should I add that sentence to the bot in a pr?
14:43:01 <gundalow> `"Thank you very much for your interest in Ansible. Ansible has migrated much of the content into separate repositories to allow for more rapid, independent development. We are closing this issue/PR because this content has been moved to a separate collection repository."` +1
14:43:14 <samccann> ok doing that now
14:43:21 <acozine> hooray!
14:43:21 <gundalow> As long as the bot template doesn't contain any of the technical info, or guidance then I'm OK with that
14:44:01 <baptistemm> my point was not about technical but giving a bit more of context so I'm good with the sentence
14:44:09 <baptistemm> +info
14:44:34 <gregdek> And then we do point to the correct repository as best we can, right?
14:44:50 <samccann> I think that's what the bot code is doing?
14:45:07 <samccann> (in that comment)... but you know, take my coding skills w/ a grain o salt
14:45:58 <acozine> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/DtRpPf0i/Code%20pointing%20to%20repo
14:46:15 <acozine> gregdek: ^^^
14:46:25 <gregdek> Just making sure :)
14:46:37 <acozine> it's trying, we won't know how successfully until we set the bot loose
14:47:04 <samccann> PR to update the comment - https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/pull/1390
14:47:40 <gundalow> I think we can modify the bot to only close a subset of issues&PRs. Brad suggested we run it against `label/networking`
14:47:58 <gundalow> I like `label/collection:community.general` to be the last that it runs against
14:48:00 <baptistemm> I don't know what's behind collection_file_matches so can'thelp
14:48:57 <samccann> ah so to gregdek's point - the code looks to come up with the collection name, not a link to the actual repo so to speak. So that's detail we'll need to add into the .md file "how to find the repo for the collection"
14:49:59 <gregdek> If we could transmogrify the code to point directly to the right repo, that would be ideal, but I don't know if that's tricky for some reason
14:52:00 <acozine> stan_g: hi and welcome
14:53:07 <gundalow> I think the issue is that Galaxy doesn't have an API to return Repo for a given location. Also repos can move
14:53:53 <gundalow> So therefore I don't think the Bot can put a link in, though we can (and MUST) detail how to do this lookup on the separate page
14:54:11 <acozine> Galaxy allows for (but does not require IIRC) links for `Repo` and `Issue tracker`
14:54:58 <samccann> could the bot link to the collection in galaxy, wherein there may be links to repo/issue tracker?
14:55:22 <samccann> I 'think' the url is predictive
14:57:16 <gregdek> Hmm
14:57:37 <gundalow> oh, yes, we can do that `galaxy.com/NAMESPACE/COLLECTIONAME/`
14:58:15 <gundalow> Need to split FQCN on `.` then build the link here: https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2#L4
14:58:16 <gregdek> Perhaps the ideal is "point to the specific issue tracker URL if it exists, and if it does not, point to the Galaxy collection instead", but then I don't know if we're torturing macros beyond their ability
14:59:08 <gregdek> But really, if it's a core redirect we're talking about, we can simply declare that repo URL must exist to be accepted into Ansible. Which I think is actually a thing we should do!
14:59:43 <gregdek> "If you're going to be included in Ansible, you must be open for issue tracking and PRs" sounds a sensible policy to me.
15:01:09 <andersson007_> hi, i'm a bit late. sorry. quick question: what are you going to do, to close all collection related issues/prs in ansible/ansible? will they be open in correspoinding collections (i.e. moved) or just closed in ansible-base and people should copy them manually if they are interested?
15:01:31 <gregdek> Hey andersson007_ :)
15:01:59 <andersson007_> hey gregdek !
15:02:00 <gregdek> I believe the goal is to close them with an appropriate redirect message, and we've been discussing how to create that appropriate redirect.
15:02:11 <gundalow> andersson007_: Generally speaking, we will not recreating new issues
15:02:23 <acozine> andersson007_: welcome! we can't move most of them because GitHub doesn't support moving across namespaces/orgs
15:03:04 <andersson007_> ok, clear, makes sense.  to get rid of abandoned probably irrelevan stuff
15:03:22 <samccann> So thinking out loud here. These are issues or PRs open on Ansible that reflect(ed) what used to be in Ansible. Is there any situation wherein that content moved to a collection that doesn't have a repo in ansible-collections?
15:03:26 <acozine> the originals were in ansible/ansible; the new ones (mostly) belong in ansible-collections/coll_name
15:03:57 <baptistemm> samccann: some collection are not in ansible-collections like openstack I think
15:04:21 <gregdek> Yes, not all collections are in ansible-collections, most but not all I believe, gundalow can check me on that
15:04:26 <baptistemm> it is https://github.com/openstack/ansible-collections-openstack
15:04:26 <samccann> ok but to greg's point  - it's still an open repo. Nothing moved out of Ansible into a closed repo
15:04:40 <gregdek> Yes. They should all be open repos, we can require that.
15:05:05 <bcoca> gregdek: x2 with partners, last i looked, not all were using open repos (but its been a while since i checked)
15:05:07 <gregdek> Which means that we should safely be able to pull the issue tracker URL from the Galaxy API.
15:05:18 <gregdek> If they want to be in Ansible, we can simply tell them to do that.
15:05:22 <bcoca> also, many published collecitons were missing repo info
15:05:25 <gregdek> The power of upstream. :)
15:05:28 <samccann> if the API supports it, yeah (Galaxy api)
15:05:38 <bcoca> galxy supports it
15:06:21 <bcoca> only issues is making it a requirement and enforcing such requirement
15:06:40 <bcoca> s/is/are/
15:06:50 <gregdek> Right, dunno how we can gate that, and it sounds like maybe we've got some collections already built that don't have that, sigh
15:07:42 <samccann> ok then back to updating the bot to give the galaxy url?
15:08:00 <samccann> gah... are all migrated collections IN galaxy yet???
15:08:27 <samccann> if not, then we are back to what the bot does today and putting how to find the repo in the docs
15:08:27 <bcoca> no
15:09:19 * samccann grumbles something my mum said about 'best laid plans of mice and men'
15:09:42 <gregdek> :)
15:09:48 <samccann> so collections aren't in galaxy yet and we don't necessarily want to wait on turning the bot on until they are, correct?
15:09:55 <samccann> or do we?
15:10:03 <gregdek> What's the best thing we can do for the long term, knowing that it won't be perfect in the short term?
15:10:07 <samccann> is the bot a cleanup so we can stop looking at old issues/prs?
15:10:20 <samccann> or to direct people in limbo on how to move forward?
15:10:26 <gregdek> Can we have the bot handle only those issues that have known issue repos, and then put others in a triage state?
15:10:34 <acozine> This is my suggestion for a "belt-and-suspenders" approach, but I'm not sure what to tell folks to do when the comment is missing https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/PiGUzW9e/Proposed%20text%20for%20new%20question%20on%20markdown
15:11:25 <acozine> oh, wait, will the link be to GitHub or to Galaxy?
15:11:31 <samccann> if the link is missing, the collection isn't on galaxy (assuming the bot is updated to point to galaxy)
15:11:38 <gregdek> I think that's what we're still trying to sort out :)
15:11:42 <acozine> heh
15:11:59 <gregdek> A lot of it is, what's possible with a reasonable amount of effort? And that's a thing I don't know.
15:12:16 <samccann> ok so first question for me - are we urgently needing to turn on the bot before, say, 2.10 releases in a bit over a month?
15:12:26 <gregdek> I think not.
15:12:36 <gregdek> I mean, it seems like Core already has a triage process.
15:12:36 <samccann> then the collections MUST be on galaxy by then, right?
15:12:56 <gregdek> Yes, or they've missed the bus.
15:13:23 <samccann> so my nickel - use the galaxy url and have something in the code to detect if it doesn't exist, just post the collection name
15:13:41 * samccann finds joy in stating things she hasn't a clue how to implement
15:13:55 <gregdek> I'd like to do it that way, but I don't know the effort. gundalow or abadger1999 could say better.
15:13:56 <samccann> and then not turn the bot on until at or about 2.10 release
15:14:31 <samccann> ah yeah, the code may not be able to determine if the galaxy url exists or not.
15:14:31 <gregdek> Assuming the core team is still available to triage, none of this is a blocker, it's just (very) nice to have.
15:14:55 <gregdek> Right, I don't know what calls the API where/when.
15:15:01 <samccann> but then acozine's note could say something like 'if the url doesn't exist, please do x, y, z to find the collectoin' in the docs
15:15:19 <samccann> ah ok.. the API.  So that was the other idea
15:15:50 <samccann> use the api to get the issue tracker link directly (a better idea) and if the api returns null or whatever (aka collection isn't on galaxy) then print out the collection name
15:16:02 * samccann still finding joy acting like she has a clue how the code could work)
15:16:07 <abadger1999> the bot would have to cache the data but it should be possible to query the galaxy API for it.
15:16:31 * abadger1999 restarts firefox since every line he types has several seconds delay.
15:17:04 <gundalow> gregdek: we are missing ~4 collections from galaxy today
15:17:43 <acozine> gregdek: for new issues, manual triage might work, but the collections migration gives us a great opportunity to clear the backlog
15:18:01 <gregdek> ok, my time is up. Sounds like we're in a decent place, just figuring out how to get to a better place, hope the ideas/thinking were helpful :)
15:18:04 * gregdek wanders afk
15:18:09 <gundalow> gregdek: 37 out of the 58 collections are under gh/ansible-collection
15:18:09 <samccann> heh
15:18:13 <acozine> gregdek: thanks!
15:18:56 <samccann> so my nickel - get the bot to find the issue tracker and use that link. if the collection isn't on galaxy, just print the collection name or whatever it does now.
15:19:14 <samccann> and pospone turning it on until those final 4 collections get into galaxy
15:21:49 <acozine> didn't someone say we could turn the bot on for limited collections?
15:22:21 <samccann> that was a suggestion, yeah.  So that's a good idea. Get it updated, then turn it on networking (but only if community.network is already on galaxy)
15:22:43 <abadger1999> Oooohhh... issue tracker... I wonder if galaxy makes that available in its REST API.
15:22:44 <gundalow> acozine: That's what I'd like to do. Will take a little bit of Bot work. Though I'm not happy to spam everybody at one go then realise "duh, the guide isn't clear about how to do X"
15:22:44 <samccann> or I should say that one of the 4 missing collections isn't network related :-) That would be a good trial run
15:23:03 <samccann> abadger1999: I think bcoca said issue tracker is in the galaxy API, yes
15:23:14 <acozine> https://galaxy.ansible.com/community/network
15:23:49 <samccann> ok we've strayed out of docs land for sure, but what is our next step on this one? Do we open an issue on the bot with this recommendation?
15:23:52 <abadger1999> It does not.
15:23:58 <samccann> DAG NAMMIT
15:24:05 <abadger1999> So we would have to screenscrape to get it.
15:24:29 <samccann> well, the other option was to create the galaxy url based on the collection name since it's predictive
15:25:14 <samccann> and again, not turn the bot on except for labels like network where we know it's all on galaxy now.
15:25:20 <gundalow> I think a PR to update the template would be good
15:25:26 <gundalow> then we can wordsmith in there
15:25:51 <samccann> oh...hmm... someone here have the knowhow on how to update the template to create the galaxy url?
15:25:55 <gundalow> did we decide if we were keeping the other file as `.md` (or `.rst`) in the current repo)?
15:26:10 <samccann> we got down a rabbit hole and did not decide that yet
15:27:22 <samccann> time to VOTE
15:27:41 <baptistemm> heeeek /me was away
15:28:16 <samccann> POLL: We update the bot template to produce the galaxy url and then update the docs (wherever they live) to explain how to find the repo from that link
15:28:24 <gundalow> +1
15:28:26 <samccann> +1
15:28:27 <acozine> +1
15:28:59 <samccann> #chair
15:28:59 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine felixfontein gregdek gundalow resmo samccann
15:29:16 <samccann> ok that might be the only folks we have around
15:29:18 <acozine> how do we unchair greg?
15:29:18 <abadger1999> (repo is in the galaxy metadata [assuming it was in the collection metadata] issues are not)
15:29:25 <acozine> #chair abadger1999
15:29:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 acozine felixfontein gregdek gundalow resmo samccann
15:29:32 <samccann> #unchair gregdek
15:29:32 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 acozine felixfontein gundalow resmo samccann
15:29:34 <abadger1999> I don't believe you can unchair.
15:29:36 <samccann> hah it worked!
15:30:03 <acozine> TIL
15:30:12 <samccann> got a vote abadger1999 baptistemm ?
15:30:29 <baptistemm> no as I did not read the backlog
15:30:34 <abadger1999> I haven't caught up with reading yet but I suspect +1
15:30:52 * baptistemm +1 abadger1999 decision
15:31:07 <baptistemm> I'm happy to help in any case
15:31:08 <gregdek> lol
15:31:16 <baptistemm> I need to leave
15:31:18 <gregdek> I'm gonna use that everywhere now
15:31:25 <samccann> ok thanks baptistemm !!
15:31:27 <acozine> are other folks around? andersson007_ awcrosby briantist bvitnik cbudz cyberpear madonius persysted Pilou resmo shaps stan_g
15:31:30 <gregdek> "I haven't caught up yet but I suspect +1"
15:31:34 <acozine> heh
15:31:48 <acozine> ciao baptistemm
15:31:51 <samccann> oh, I was thinking of borrowing the "+1 whatever abadger199 sez'
15:32:02 <samccann> add 9  ^
15:32:20 <samccann> ok gonna close out the poll
15:32:53 <resmo> +1
15:33:06 <samccann> #agreed We update the bot template to produce the galaxy url and then update the docs (wherever they live) to explain how to find the repo from that link (3/0/0 and 2 potential +1)
15:33:16 <samccann> heh thanks resmo !
15:33:31 <gundalow> Excellen
15:33:33 <gundalow> t
15:33:33 <resmo> anytime ;)
15:33:41 <samccann> Ok with that decided, the next debate - do we keep the docs with the bot or move them into .rst on docs.ansible.com
15:33:52 <baptistemm> is ther a way to run a dry run of the bot somewhere ?
15:34:01 <samccann> keeping it with the bot has the pro of keeping the docs in the same repo as the bot
15:34:16 <baptistemm> in order to know what it will look like before ruinning it on all PR ?
15:34:34 <samccann> baptistemm: the thought is to run it on the network label first, once it's ready
15:34:58 <acozine> we could look at the "PRs/issues by file" page and find something with only a few entries
15:35:03 <samccann> afaik the network team volunteered :-)
15:35:19 <acozine> they are brave!
15:35:36 <samccann> but yeah, if we have a smaller label test we could run, that would also work
15:35:37 * resmo was informed by monitoring that gitlab pages are down
15:35:48 <samccann> meanwhile  - md or .rst?
15:36:18 <samccann> with the caveat of wherever we put the docs, it STAYS there since the bot will link to that location
15:36:55 <acozine> resmo: yikes, that's not good
15:37:18 <samccann> this is what the md file says today to give y'all an idea of the content of said docs - https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md
15:37:46 <acozine> POLL: +1 means we keep the explanation of the GitHub comment as a markdown file on the Ansibot repo (https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md)
15:38:22 <samccann> +1
15:38:29 <acozine> -1 means we move that content elsewhere (probably an rst file)
15:38:39 <acozine> ^^^ was not my vote, merely an explanation
15:38:57 * acozine hasn't done enough polls yet
15:39:02 <acozine> +1
15:39:24 <acozine> because I like documenting the bot's behavior in the bot's own docs
15:39:30 <samccann> same for me
15:39:52 <samccann> Time to rattle the chairs again?  :-)
15:40:05 <resmo> not for me, I am here ;)
15:40:42 <samccann> :-) got a vote?
15:40:53 <resmo> I am kind of -1-ish
15:41:06 <samccann> got some thoughts to share on that?
15:41:37 * resmo yeay, gitlab pages up again.
15:42:24 <acozine> resmo: phew!
15:42:57 <acozine> so what's your thinking on moving the content about "why is my PR/issue being closed"?
15:44:07 <bcoca> cause i wanna!
15:47:49 <samccann> heh
15:47:58 <abadger1999> +0  I'm pulled in both directions.
15:48:11 <samccann> ok thinking out loud
15:48:46 <samccann> I favor docs in the repo that the docs explain
15:49:00 <resmo> I would like to found docs in a centralized location
15:49:02 <samccann> THIS instance... as I read it .md file, is not necessarily explaining the bot, it's explaining what to do
15:49:10 <resmo> s/found/find
15:50:07 <resmo> also if "you" are the bot and want users help, doc.ansible.com is the location I'd like them to point to.
15:50:42 <gundalow> I'm -1 to having it in docs.ansible.com, because I worry that people will point to `/latest/` which will get out of date
15:50:49 <samccann> resmo: docs.ansible.com would definitely have a section on how to find collections, where to open issues/PRs on collections etc. Not a direct repeat of this doc but would need that
15:51:02 <acozine> resmo: yes, that makes sense; I think the reason I'm leaning the other direction is that this content will be (I hope?) temporary - this is about making it through the collections transition
15:51:48 <acozine> once people are used to the new world order, we should see fewer and fewer "open this issue/PR in the collection repo" comments, and eventually that should stop
15:51:56 <acozine> or am I being overly optimistic?
15:52:39 <samccann> I think with the module docs showing up on docs.ansible.com, we may have an ongoing need to educate how to open an issue on the correct collection
15:53:01 <samccann> but that's different from 'my issue/pr was closed what do I do now'.  which is what the bot docs talk about
15:53:05 <acozine> I started a draft for that use case: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/70488/files
15:53:42 <acozine> the `Bugs in collections` section
15:54:41 <acozine> it isn't final, but it's more focused on the future, rather than on the transition
15:55:23 <resmo> gundalow: I see your point, I think there should be a centralized location for dev docs which is independent from ansible releases: dev-docs.ansible.com
15:56:01 <samccann> gundalow: to your point, IF we moved the docs to docs.ansible.com, the link in the bot could still be /devel/
15:56:53 <acozine> resmo: interesting idea, we are looking at a major overhaul of the documentation in future, and that could be a way forward
15:56:54 <samccann> resmo: to your point - yes, some future point we want to reorg the docs so there is a clear developer section. That said, so long as /latest/ is open for PRs, I think we'll still need a /latest/ dev guide
15:57:22 <acozine> samccann: agreed
15:58:17 <gundalow> samccann: yup, I think linking to `/devel` would be OK
15:58:40 <gundalow> longer term splitting the docs up is cool. Though not going to start that discussion today
15:58:56 <acozine> nope, we have enough on our plates right now
15:59:28 <acozine> I'm hoping to start that discussion after 2.10 is out the door
15:59:29 <samccann> so does that change your vote gundalow?  Right now we are 2 in favor of keeping docs in the md file, one against, ...and you :-)
15:59:41 <samccann> (and adbadger1999 seeing both sides of the coin on this one)
15:59:46 <gundalow> lol at `...and you`
16:00:30 <gundalow> I guess my requirements are
16:00:30 <gundalow> 1) Link needs to be valid for a couple of years
16:00:30 <gundalow> 2) Google needs to direct people to the right place
16:02:03 <acozine> a markdown file in the bot repo should last as long as the bot is in operation, so I think we're meeting requirement 1
16:02:24 <samccann> as I mentioned before, not a hill I'm willing to die on
16:02:30 <acozine> oh, me neither
16:02:59 <acozine> gundalow: what google search would you expect to hit this page?
16:03:03 <abadger1999> I'm fine either way.
16:03:20 <abadger1999> I see pros to either decision and neither outweigh the other.
16:03:56 <samccann> fwiw - google search only links to the top of a page. So if we bring this to docs.ansible.com, it has to be a separate .rst file, not a new section on the existing page that talks about opening up issues and prs
16:06:27 <samccann> if we bring it to devel docs, it stays there forever, correct?
16:06:41 <samccann> if we leave it in the bot, it also stays there forever, but isn't in the main docs forever
16:07:55 <acozine> if we bring it into docs.ansible.com, it becomes much harder to get rid of, yes
16:07:59 <samccann> ok we're 2 hrs into the docathon. I'm not sure we will get a clear decision on this one. So maybe acozine and I look at the existing issues page on docs.ansible.com, and review the .md file and just make a decision
16:08:44 <acozine> gundalow: is this the last decision we need on the docs side before setting the bot to work on the backlog?
16:09:01 <acozine> at least on some carefully chosen portion of the backlog?
16:09:12 <gundalow> acozine: once we are happy with the docs, then open it up to a small subset,
16:09:14 <gundalow> Thanks
16:12:02 <acozine> okay, so we have 2 items on our to-do list
16:12:24 <acozine> 1. update https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/templates/collection_migration.j2 to create a link to Galaxy or the new repo
16:13:02 <acozine> 2. make a final decision on the location for the content from https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/docs/collection_migration.md
16:13:39 <samccann> 1 needs a coder
16:13:46 <acozine> yeah
16:16:16 <samccann> gundalow: - how do we get the code changed? do we open an issue with the request? Do we know someone who could quickly just open the PR?
16:17:22 <acozine> I vote we open an issue on the bot repo.
16:18:56 <acozine> https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/issues/1391
16:19:08 <samccann> ok let's do that
16:19:36 <samccann> heh ok you did
16:20:08 <acozine> it let me close a few tabs in my browser
16:20:27 <samccann> I need to break for lunch in a bit. Where do we want to go next? keep going here, or come back tomorrow morning and continue the docathon ?
16:20:59 <acozine> how about we list some easyfix issues here?
16:21:31 <acozine> folks can pick them up, or post PRs . . .
16:22:14 <gundalow> yup, issue is good
16:22:48 <acozine> #topic easyfix issues/topics
16:23:25 <acozine> 1. Updating docs to have FQCN for module mentions
16:24:21 <acozine> ^^^ find rst pages that mention specific modules, update to use Fully Qualified Collection Names (namespace.collection.module)
16:24:54 <samccann> #info need folks to update the docs to use FQCN for any module mentions in rst pages - use Fully Qualified Collection Names (namespace.collection.module)
16:25:59 <acozine> 2.  Updating module docs in collections to use FQCN for M(...) links and Seealso entries
16:26:08 <acozine> this can be manual, for small collections
16:26:44 <acozine> or if anyone wants to modify https://github.com/ansible-network/collection_prep for general collection use, that would be awesome
16:26:49 <samccann> #info update module docs within collectoins to use FQCN for M() and :seealso: entries. Can do this manually
16:27:05 <samccann> #info or  modify https://github.com/ansible-network/collection_prep for general collection use, that would be awesome
16:28:01 <acozine> 3. we have a few issues marked `easyfix`: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Adocs+label%3Aeasyfix
16:28:07 <acozine> (docs issues, that is)
16:31:29 <samccann> #info see https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Adocs+label%3Aeasyfix for easy fix docs issues
16:32:03 * gundalow -> food
16:34:04 <samccann> heh
16:36:01 <samccann> about to go do the same
16:37:44 <acozine> I will have my lunch now as well, to keep us all on a similar schedule
16:38:35 <acozine> (and by "us all" there I meant "folks who have spoken up in chat in the last 30 minutes")
16:39:04 <acozine> if you're lurking, feel free to grab an issue from the #info links above
16:39:30 <acozine> or post an idea or comment for the hackathon
16:43:28 * acozine cues up some background music for IRC
18:20:01 * acozine is back
18:20:12 <acozine> I think the meeting is technically still happening
18:20:33 <acozine> is anyone around to hack on docs or on Ansible more generally?
18:20:45 <bcoca> its what im currently doing!
18:20:50 <bcoca> ;-p
18:21:11 <acozine> bcoca: awesome, post links/PRs when ready!
18:21:22 <bcoca> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/70207
18:24:47 <samccann> omgosh never closed the meeting.. woopsie
18:27:01 <acozine> I think technically it went until today at 2:00 my time?
18:27:54 <samccann> ok should we continue the debate on the .md file and try to come to a decision?
18:28:10 * samccann waits for the groans of oh no not again!
18:30:01 <acozine> heh
18:30:14 <acozine> I can see arguments on both sides
18:30:30 <acozine> on balance I'm still in favor of keeping the markdown file in the ansibot repo
18:30:32 <samccann> yeah same here
18:31:01 <samccann> TO THE ISSUES PAGE(S) on docs.ansible.com batwoman!
18:31:28 <acozine> abadger1999: how does PR 70207 mesh with your ongoing work on the docs pipeline?
18:31:36 <acozine> (see link from bcoca above)
18:33:30 <abadger1999> @acozine I think it will be okay.
18:33:49 <abadger1999> I don't know if it will break the ansible-doc backend but we're planning on replacing that anyway.
18:34:17 <acozine> cool
18:34:48 <abadger1999> If it does break the ansible-doc backend, the pipeline will be broken until an ansible-doc free backend can be written.
18:35:07 <acozine> so some testing is definitely in order
18:36:59 <abadger1999> <nod> Yeah.  On the surface it looks like it will just make things better but I know that ansible-doc doesn't format its data very well so it could very well be that the data won't go into the right places which would break things.
18:37:42 <samccann> ok on the .md file - here's a drawback - our current issues docs page points to this ansibot doc https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/master/ISSUE_HELP.md
18:38:13 <samccann> which likely needs some updating... but the point being - these .md files living 'somewhere else' aren't always on our (docs) radar so we don't realize stale info is out there
18:39:17 <samccann> and a search on our docs won't find it.. cuz... it lives somewhere else.
18:39:36 <acozine> true, having all the docs in one repo makes it easier to find stale content
18:39:56 <samccann> so... we (docs) may need to start listing out places/repos where we depend on bots/tools etc and keep an eye on such things
18:40:49 <samccann> A question for the hive mind (abadger1999 bcoca anyone else around) - will ansibullbot be used for any other repo but ansible/ansible?
18:41:07 <samccann> as in could it be used on community.general or something?
18:41:14 <abadger1999> samccann: It currently is already in use for community.general and community.networking.
18:41:38 <abadger1999> I think it would be preferable to have more committers rather than having the bot.  But they aren't exclusive.
18:42:05 <abadger1999> Running the bot isn't "free" either in terms of time or money.
18:42:10 <samccann> ok so that to me means docs need to be in the bot.
18:42:49 <samccann> but also  that we have to be better (in the overall definition of WE) in keeping an eye on these repo docs
18:42:58 <abadger1999> <nod>
18:43:02 <samccann> tho you know... still not that hill :-)
18:43:35 <abadger1999> yeah, if you want to point people at official docs that are in the bot, then you'll want a hand in keeping that documentation updated.
18:43:41 <samccann> but if there wasn't a doc  there, then there may not have been any docs at all since bot coders might not realize there are docs related to it over on docs.ansible.com
18:44:10 <abadger1999> Note that we don't know how the bot will be developed in the future yet.... There's a growing number of stakeholders but not a lot of funding....
18:44:39 <abadger1999> I worked on it enoug h to get it working for community.general.... when community is able to hire again, we'll want to list work on the bot in the job deswcription.
18:44:59 <abadger1999> But, for instance, we don't know if there will be one bot code base or if it will get forked....
18:45:26 <abadger1999> Core and collections have a lot of needs in common but also a lot of needs that are separate.
18:45:27 <samccann> so if it got forked, it would bring the docs with it (as a starting point anyway)
18:45:45 <abadger1999> samccann: Well... you'd have two sources for the docs and would have to decide which was official.
18:45:50 <samccann> which would make it helpful if the bot did different things in ansible/ansible vs community.general etc
18:46:19 <samccann> well my point is if the bot is doing different things in different repos, each repo needs its own docs, and we don't have that (at least not yet) on docs.ansible.com
18:47:22 <samccann> and even when the pipeline may be able to bring in the collection /docs folder, dunno if we could also manually add more to that collection-level docs (like contributing, bot use, etc) on docs.ansible.com or if that messes up the pipeline
18:47:43 <abadger1999> <nod>.... -ish... ;-)  There's a ton of unknowns so I can't say whether that accurately models the way things would work best for the docs team or not.
18:47:43 <samccann> (btw no rush on collection /docs.. at least the peeps in the contributor summit had no immediate need for it)
18:47:57 <samccann> you and me both sir... you and me both
18:49:22 <abadger1999> Like.. one fork is great about updating its docs and the other fork is horrible about updating the docs... Do you use both?  Does the docs team contribute to both to take up the slack?  Does the docs team update one fork and point everyone there?
18:50:07 <abadger1999> Or you know... it may be that we'll build on jctanner's plugin work inside of ansibullbot to make it a proper modular architecture and then it will remain one code base.
18:50:45 <abadger1999> But then.... the docs still have to explain how the workflow differs between community.general and ansible/ansible...
18:51:45 <abadger1999> Like I say.. too many unknowns.... and too many places where it will come down to who actually codes stuff and we don't know who that might be.
18:52:32 * samccann crawls back under rock
18:52:41 <samccann> it's a scary place out here in the real world!
19:01:36 <samccann> anyway my final decision/vote -leave it where it is (.md in the bot repo). It may not be perfect docs, but it's docs for the tool and the developers will know where to modify it if  they change behavior of the bot at some point
19:01:59 <samccann> anyone else have an opinion before we put the nail in this coffin?
19:05:36 * acozine adds a nail
19:05:55 <acozine> the docs exist now in that locations
19:06:25 <samccann> #agreed the bot docs will stay in the repo .md file and we will point to it from the PR and issues sections of docs.ansible.com/ansible
19:06:28 <samccann> done
19:06:31 <acozine> and I hope the transition will not last forever
19:06:52 <acozine> someday a week will go by with no "redirected" issues or PRs
19:06:54 <acozine> then a month
19:07:04 <acozine> and so on
19:07:07 <acozine> I hope
19:07:26 <samccann> now to the issue to update the bot to use a URL.  The issue talks about pointing to the repo but I thought that wasn't possible?
19:07:58 <acozine> oh, I lost track of that conversation
19:08:10 <samccann> abadger1999 said he didn't  think the Galaxy API supported returning the issue tracker and someone else (bcoca maybe) didn't think it supported retrieving the repo.
19:08:22 <acozine> I thought I wrote the issue as "point to the repo if possible, or to Galaxy if not"
19:08:41 <samccann> yeah you did. nevermind.. i'm beating a dead horse.
19:08:54 <samccann> Before we close this meeting, do we want another docathon tomorrow?
19:09:17 <samccann> There's nothing currently listed for tomorrow's hackathon on the etherpad
19:09:22 <acozine> is the hackathon was moving on to other topics?
19:09:34 <acozine> hm, that's a question for gundalow, I think
19:10:00 <acozine> we focused more on mechanics today, and less on stuff that anyone/everyone can open a PR for
19:10:08 <acozine> so I'd be open to trying again tomorrow
19:10:19 * gundalow waves
19:10:30 <gundalow> I'll be around for some of tomorrow
19:11:52 <samccann> what time do we want to start? 10:30 am ET? earlier/later?
19:13:19 <acozine> earlier, I think, since most folks seem to be in EMEA
19:13:27 <acozine> I can even get up a bit early
19:13:54 <samccann> heh. I have a meeting 9-9:30 ET. Did you want to start w/o me or start at 9:30?
19:14:28 <acozine> 9:30 ET sounds good, that's 8:30 my time
19:14:45 <acozine> that's a promise I can keep, unlike 6:00 am
19:15:25 <acozine> #info Hackathon Day Two tomorrow, starting a half-hour earlier than today's session
19:15:55 <acozine> any objections to me ending today's official meeting?
19:16:04 <samccann> #info 9:30 am ET 13:30 UTC
19:16:08 <samccann> endit
19:16:14 <acozine> thanks everyone!
19:16:16 <samccann> EOF
19:16:18 <acozine> #endmeeting