15:00:58 <samccann_irc> #startmeeting Ansible Documentation Working Group aka DaWGs
15:00:58 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  8 15:00:58 2023 UTC.
15:00:58 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:00:58 <zodbot> The chair is samccann_irc. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
15:00:58 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:58 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'ansible_documentation_working_group_aka_dawgs'
15:01:24 <samccann_irc> #info for the time being, these meetings must be run from IRC. Matrix users can participate but
15:01:25 <samccann_irc> can't use any of the typical meeting commands.
15:01:28 <ansible_relay> 06TVo> Hey there, I'll be 🪰 on the wall again, I have another community office hour call at the same time.
15:01:40 <ansible_relay> 12samccann> @room Meeting time! Who is here to talk the docs?
15:01:56 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> o/
15:02:00 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> hi
15:02:06 <ansible_relay> 12samccann> welcome Tvo!  Can't chair ya but ..
15:02:12 <ansible_relay> 12samccann> #sofa Tvo, Don
15:02:21 <felixfontein> o/
15:02:24 <samccann_irc> #chair felixfontein
15:02:24 <zodbot> Current chairs: felixfontein samccann_irc
15:02:47 <ansible_relay> 14sutapa_bhattacharjee> O/ 👋
15:02:48 <felixfontein> hi sofa :D
15:02:56 <samccann_irc> hehe welcome Sutapa!
15:03:22 <samccann_irc> As folks come in - a bit of explanation. Our bridge between irc and matrix is down. We have a relaybot that allows us to see each other's messages
15:03:35 <samccann_irc> but the actual meeting has to be run from IRC.. thus my extended nick etc
15:04:12 <samccann_irc> Raise your ascii hand (o/) to say hi or any other way you want to let us know you are here. And Welcome to any new folks!
15:04:12 <samccann_irc> To any newcomers - again, welcome. We chair all attendees as a way of recognizing your time spent here. And it opens it up for people to add to the meeting minutes with commands like #info or #link (to add a link)
15:04:12 <samccann_irc> General run of the meeting - We go over action items, give docs updates.. maybe have a topic or two, and go over doctooling updates (all the fun stuff behind the scenes that get us docs.ansible.com!)
15:04:24 <samccann_irc> official agenda at https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/678#issuecomment-1660638342
15:04:41 <samccann_irc> #topic Documentation Updates
15:04:50 <samccann_irc> #info we have 40 open issues and 16 open PRs
15:05:00 <samccann_irc> and backport bot is working great!
15:05:09 <samccann_irc> best invention since sliced bread
15:05:22 <felixfontein> definitely!
15:05:32 <samccann_irc> #info awx operator docs nearly there! just need to set up readthedocs and we can publish!
15:06:05 <samccann_irc> oh watching this on the matrix side and every hashtag use here ends up a heading (aka large font) on matrix. fun times
15:06:19 <samccann_irc> #topic Build issues w new dependencies files
15:06:40 <samccann_irc> Currently, the jenkins builds will only work with the updated dependencies work from https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/pull/60
15:06:49 <samccann_irc> Our options seem to be - make the jenkins logic more complex so it still works down to at least stable-2.13
15:07:01 <samccann_irc> or manually 'backport' that new dependencies option down to stable-2.13.
15:07:12 <felixfontein> I think manually backport is the better approach
15:07:31 <felixfontein> the 'hard' part of it is re-creating the pip-compile result with a similar Python version
15:07:32 <samccann_irc> That still leaves us unable to publish EOL docs. Historically, we've had to fidget with them and thus needed the ability to publish.
15:07:57 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> I'm currently wrangling with those dependencies now and will hopefully be able to fix it soon enough
15:08:07 <felixfontein> I wanted to try this out, but haven't gotten around to do it yet... not sure whether I will before the weekend, so if anyone else wants to try, go ahead :)
15:08:22 <samccann_irc> we need the ability to publish to latest working at least (aka stable-2.15)
15:08:53 <samccann_irc> I bakported #60 PR (The new pinning) and am running a test jenkins build to see if it works
15:09:07 <samccann_irc> s/bakported/backported/
15:09:40 <felixfontein> do you already have a PR for that?
15:09:56 <samccann_irc> me? the stable-2.15 I think merged... lemme check
15:10:09 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> yeah stable-2.15 backport was merged
15:10:39 <samccann_irc> ok phew. I'll letcha know when the jenkins build completes. That's my priority - getting latest publish back
15:11:09 <samccann_irc> anything else to bring up on pinning/not pinning requirements?
15:11:17 <felixfontein> ah, I thought you meant a backport for 2.14 or 2.13
15:11:45 <samccann_irc> nah. Don has more work going there so a manual backport to those two might as well wait for him to finish
15:12:10 <samccann_irc> unless I'm missing something and someone should go ahead and do the backports for #60 now?
15:12:52 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> samcann: and Felix Fontein https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/pull/255 - if you could take a look at this one, I'd appreciate it
15:13:23 <felixfontein> there will be new ansible-core 2.13 and 2.14 releases next Monday or Tuesday
15:13:45 <felixfontein> so being able to build their docs would be helpful :)
15:14:36 <samccann_irc> ooch yeah
15:14:38 <felixfontein> which Python version(s) is/are used for the main docs build?
15:14:55 <samccann_irc> main as in devel/latest?
15:15:42 <felixfontein> no, main as in "the official docs build for docs.ansible.com"
15:15:52 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> 3.11
15:15:55 <felixfontein> (main wasn't the best word for it ;) )
15:16:08 <samccann_irc> yeah so docs.ansible.com has two 'main' builds - devel and latest and yeah both use 3.11+
15:16:32 <felixfontein> ansible-core 2.13 does not support Python 3.11
15:16:45 <samccann_irc> I think the jenkins build has logic for that
15:17:13 <samccann_irc> lemme check unless don knows off  the top of his head. The core branches are a separate jenkins build from the Ansible package jenkins build
15:17:36 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> bah, I don't remember off the top of my head either
15:17:45 <felixfontein> I guess we should use the Python version used by Jenkins for every stable branch to compile the requirements for that stable branch
15:18:24 <samccann_irc> ok I don;t have the jenkins repo handy, but looking at the builds that failed, they are using 3.11 as well
15:18:57 <samccann_irc> the jenkins list of older builds only show me the last 3, which were all after #60 where I found the builds broken for all but devel
15:19:59 <samccann_irc> Yeah it's all gotten beyond my ability to track. Don would be the one to help with what's required for backports to get stable-2.13, 2.14 working before Monday
15:20:44 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> it's a bit of a tangled mess of dependencies but I'm working on it
15:20:52 <samccann_irc> Don - can you resolve your new PR tomorrow, and then work on the older branches, or should we backport #60 manually to the older branches and get publishing working on them first...  then finish your new PR after next week's releases?
15:21:32 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> I think we can do the backports independently of that other PR I created
15:21:54 <felixfontein> sounds good to me
15:22:10 <samccann_irc> ok who can do them? cuz this has gotten way over my head so I'm not help
15:22:18 <samccann_irc> s/not/no/
15:22:25 * samccann_irc types worse in irc ;-)
15:23:14 <felixfontein> I can work on them, but I need to know which Python is used by Jenkins to build the docs for these stable branches
15:23:42 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> can you see my messages on IRC?
15:23:48 <samccann_irc> yes
15:25:07 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> ok. I've been looking at the backports and am making them a priority. I hope to have PRs for the stable branches soon, like tomorrow.
15:25:34 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> I'd def appreciate any help though Felix Fontein
15:25:38 <felixfontein> ok, sounds good to me
15:25:46 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> cool
15:25:58 <samccann_irc> great thanks!
15:26:01 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> yeah, Jenkins uses 3.11 for all the branches
15:26:20 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> we really need to open those jobs up
15:26:45 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> it also feels like a good time to ask about possibly changing the versioning for docs
15:27:24 <samccann_irc> yep definitely need to open them up.
15:27:33 <samccann_irc> did you want me to start a new topic?
15:27:39 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> let's get the requirements thing sorted first but do we still want to try and move to a devel / latest only schema in the repo?
15:27:41 <samccann_irc> (aka versioning for docs?)
15:27:56 <samccann_irc> not sure what you mean?
15:28:02 <felixfontein> what exactly do you mean with 'versioning for docs'?
15:28:16 <felixfontein> (sorry, typing slowly today ;) )
15:29:10 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> mostly the fact that the docs repo still follows the core branch names. `latest` package docs url builds off `stable-2.15` etc.
15:29:23 <samccann_irc> ok lemme start another topic
15:29:44 <samccann_irc> #topic ansible-documentation release tagging
15:29:54 <felixfontein> which kind of is necessary, as some parts of the docs are version specific
15:30:02 <samccann_irc> #info https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/issues/66
15:30:26 <samccann_irc> is related to this, tho not identical to what Don's talking about i think?
15:31:41 <felixfontein> I'm not entirely sure
15:32:03 <felixfontein> also latest means different things, depending on whether you are talking about the ansible-core or the ansible docs (at least for some time of the year)
15:32:43 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> whoa ... relaybot looks ... weird
15:32:53 <samccann_irc> ok I might have mixed apples w oranges on that issue
15:33:03 <felixfontein> maxamillion: indeed!
15:33:19 <samccann_irc> hey maxamillion - yeah it gets messy but better than the compete isolation we had a couple of days ago
15:33:55 <samccann_irc> the big thing is if you run meetings w/ zodbot, you end up having to run them from irc
15:34:52 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> oh yeah, it's certainly better than complete isolation :)
15:35:02 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> I'll get used to it ;)
15:35:25 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> oh that's a bummer
15:35:43 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> hadn't thought about that
15:36:03 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> time for a new bot?
15:36:15 <ansible_relay> 12samccann> Don Naro: sorry we digressed. What did you want to bring up about latest/devel 'branches' in the docs?
15:36:23 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> a matrix native one?
15:36:40 <felixfontein> maxamillion: right now a matrix native bot won't really help, as we'd still need the same crutch for IRC folks
15:36:54 <felixfontein> the main difference is that it looks better for the matrix folks and worse for the IRC folks ;)
15:37:15 <ansible_relay> 12samccann> maxamillion: yeah there's rumor'd work happening about a meeting bot or something for matrix, but we still have the irc vs matrix communications problems
15:38:43 <ansible_relay> 02Don Naro> samccann: I guess we need to keep the branch naming scheme that we have now if some bits need versioning. I was just wondering the other day if we might try and change that and forgot where things are at, or if there's any need/desire to change what we're doing.
15:39:51 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> ahhh ok
15:39:58 <samccann_irc> ok thanks
15:40:09 <samccann_irc> #topic Preferred terminology
15:40:09 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> interop fun continues!
15:40:19 <ansible_relay> 12maxamillion:one.ems.host> alright, sorry ... I'll stop derailing from the meeting
15:40:24 <felixfontein> Don: yeah, I guess we first have to figure out how to separate the version-specific things from the version-agnostic things... which will be hard by itself, and might need another repo...
15:40:48 <samccann_irc> #info adding project terms to style guide - https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/issues/152.
15:40:57 <felixfontein> (or maybe the version specific things could go back to ansible/ansible, so they are versioned together with the code)
15:41:15 <samccann_irc> Seems we are coming to consensus there wrt using capitals etc. I'll update the hackmd one more time and then open a PR to add this to our style guide
15:41:44 <samccann_irc> felixfontein: docs can't go back to ansible/ansible.
15:42:28 <samccann_irc> #topic Github metrics
15:42:29 <felixfontein> that's a policy decision, not a technical decision, so it could be changed in theory ;) just mentioning it, since it might be nicer to have two repos instead of three
15:42:44 <samccann_irc> heh
15:42:51 <samccann_irc> #info do we want to turn on metrics ? see https://github.blog/2023-07-19-metrics-for-issues-pull-requests-and-discussions/
15:43:04 <samccann_irc> someone pointed that link out so figured I'd see if there's any interest
15:44:38 <felixfontein> I think that GHA is only using public information that's already there anyway - is that correct?
15:44:53 <felixfontein> if that's the case I don't see a reason (from a privacy point of view) against enabling it
15:45:30 <felixfontein> it sounds to me like this is similar to what Greg has been doing in the past for other repos
15:45:42 <samccann_irc> yeah just figured this one we can set up
15:46:00 <ansible_relay> 12samccann> but worth pinging Gwmngilfen to see if he has an opinion
15:46:06 <felixfontein> :+1:
15:46:23 <felixfontein> (yay, that was successfully converted to an emoticon by the 'bridge' :D )
15:46:45 <samccann_irc> hehe yep sometimes it really is just the little things :-)
15:46:51 <samccann_irc> #topic Open Floor
15:47:05 <samccann_irc> We have a few minutes left. Anyone have a docs-related topic to discuss?
15:48:04 <ansible_relay> 08Gwmngilfen> just to check, this is stats on the new docs repo?
15:48:22 <samccann_irc> yeah this is the new github thing that does stats
15:48:32 <samccann_irc> https://github.blog/2023-07-19-metrics-for-issues-pull-requests-and-discussions/
15:48:43 <samccann_irc> we're thinking of enabling it on the docs repo for fun
15:48:54 <ansible_relay> 08Gwmngilfen> i hadn't seen it, too busy. let me go read what it does and I can give an opinion. but in any case I'd be happy to do one of my reports for the repo too
15:49:25 <samccann_irc> ok let us know what you think when you get a chance
15:49:33 <felixfontein> I'm not sure whether the docs repo is a good repo for trying this out, since it's history isn't that long
15:49:34 <ansible_relay> 08Gwmngilfen> ugh average time to close. that is *always* a lie if you just use a mean (which they might well be)
15:49:41 <samccann_irc> :-)
15:49:52 <samccann_irc> anything else to talk about before we end the meeting today?
15:50:47 <samccann_irc> ok sounds like that's a wrap!
15:50:51 <samccann_irc> #endmeeting