00:47:19 #startmeeting APAC vFAD 2018 00:47:20 Meeting started Sun Jan 14 00:47:19 2018 UTC. The chair is GIANT_CRAB. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:47:20 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:47:20 The meeting name has been set to 'apac_vfad_2018' 00:47:58 #topic roll call 00:49:20 #chair kagesenshi 00:49:20 Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB kagesenshi 00:49:32 .fas izhar 00:49:35 kagesenshi: izhar 'Mohd Izhar Firdaus Ismail' 00:49:45 .fas woohuiren 00:49:46 GIANT_CRAB: woohuiren 'Woo Huiren' 00:50:10 we'll wait a while I guess 00:52:05 #topic roll call 00:53:09 i think other timezones are not awake yet :) 00:53:38 the topic command aint working? 00:54:15 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Fedora-specific_functions 00:55:06 if i remember correctly #topic will just be recorded in log 00:57:37 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018 01:13:47 hello siddharthvipul 01:13:55 skamath hello 01:17:06 GIANT_CRAB, Hello o/ 01:17:10 Hi all :D 01:18:51 #chair skamath 01:18:51 Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB kagesenshi skamath 01:24:12 #topic agenda 01:25:51 * skamath wondering why the topic didn't change 01:26:19 today we'll discuss about the strategies for contributor growth, challenges faced by contributors and future events to be conducted. Other than that, we'll take feedback and comments from contributors (if any) 01:27:07 more info about this virtual FAD can be found on the event page 01:27:09 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018 01:27:41 some folks will be joining in a bit later, so feel free to add topics to the agenda 01:28:39 #topic Swag Logistics 01:29:10 Can I also add a country specific topic, GIANT_CRAB? 01:29:22 sure 01:29:49 #topic Defining better onboarding steps for Indian contributors 01:29:57 This is something that really needs to be done. 01:30:50 In the wiki, it is mentioned that if you're from India, they require a CLA +1. This was done to prevent a mass flood of people who flock in to become ambassadors, just to put on their resume. 01:31:17 Not sure if it is still valid now, maybe Sumantro or Sankarshan should be able to answer this when they're around 01:32:12 GIANT_CRAB, Did you set a meetingname so this can be searched for in meetbot? 01:32:57 #meetingname fad_apac_2018 01:32:57 The meeting name has been set to 'fad_apac_2018' 01:32:58 #info The meeting name has been set to 'apac_vfad_2018' 01:33:08 Oh, oops 01:33:15 oh no haha 01:33:26 #meetingname apac_vfad_2018 01:33:26 The meeting name has been set to 'apac_vfad_2018' 01:33:40 I hope that doesn't do anything weird 01:33:49 No, it just takes the last one 01:34:03 oh, great 01:34:29 skamath: that was implemented in the 2016 FAD? 01:34:37 Looks like the last APAC fad was on 29-04-2016 01:34:39 GIANT_CRAB, Yes 01:34:48 .fas skamath 01:34:49 GIANT_CRAB: skamath 'Sachin S Kamath ' 01:34:51 #link https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/sresults/?group_id=apac_2016-04-29&type=team 01:34:56 .fasinfo skamath 01:35:00 skamath: User: skamath, Name: Sachin S Kamath , email: sskamath96@gmail.com, Creation: 2014-11-12, IRC Nick: skamath, Timezone: Asia/Kolkata, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 9E865679, Status: active 01:35:03 skamath: Approved Groups: @community-blog fedorabugs qa +fedora-join summer-coding ambassadors cvsl10n freemedia +commops cla_fpca cla_done 01:35:04 :) 01:35:56 That reminds me I need to update my gpg :P 01:36:34 .localtime bexelbie 01:36:37 skamath: User "bexelbie" doesn't exist 01:36:41 .localtime bex 01:36:43 skamath: The current local time of "bex" is: "02:36" (timezone: Europe/Prague) 01:37:05 Ah, we can expect bex a bit later. It's too early for him. 01:39:11 I've added your issue here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/challenges#Challenges_Faced 01:39:30 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/challenges#Challenges_Faced 01:40:06 .fasinfo woohuiren 01:40:08 GIANT_CRAB: User: woohuiren, Name: Woo Huiren, email: giantcrabby@gmail.com, Creation: 2015-07-12, IRC Nick: GIANT_CRAB, Timezone: Asia/Singapore, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 84502749211A2669, Status: active 01:40:13 GIANT_CRAB: Approved Groups: marketing ambassadors cla_done cla_fpca 01:41:23 That's a nice compilation! GIANT_CRAB++ zsun++ :) 01:41:23 skamath: Karma for woohuiren changed to 1 (for the f27 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 01:41:26 skamath: Karma for zsun changed to 1 (for the f27 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 01:42:04 GIANT_CRAB, How is it going in Singapore? 01:42:31 a little chilly here. been raining for many many many consecutive days. how are you in India? 01:43:11 It's good. Really humid here in the South. Apart from that, all good. Force waking myself with coffee :) 01:43:42 GIANT_CRAB, Are you the only ambassador from SGP? 01:44:13 Oh okay, I see 5 names on the wiki 01:44:19 Are all of them active? 01:45:10 no 01:45:24 Looking at the list, I also see 6 names in Sri Lanka but I've not seen any of them around 01:46:20 India has 25 and I think there are only around 10-15 who are active 01:46:25 uh, probably 3 active ambassadors? Harish Pillay and my mentor, Herson. we've not organized any events since the last release party we organized 01:46:38 skamath: that's pretty neat 01:46:48 what events did y'all run last year 01:47:35 Let's see. 01:47:46 We had F26 and 27 release parties in Bangalore. 01:47:55 And also in Pune. 01:48:03 Release parties aren't good here in SGP though, poor attendance. 01:48:20 We had a Fedora Womens Day event 01:48:27 hows the attendance like there? 01:48:33 mmmmm, that's great! 01:48:53 And Sumantro, siddharthvipul and I are holding a 2 day open source workshop soon for newcomers 01:49:03 Where we will be having a release party and install fest 01:49:16 GIANT_CRAB, That depends. Around 20-ish 01:49:43 When are these events happening? 01:49:45 GIANT_CRAB, The one we are about to hold is part of a college tech fest so I'm expecting around 100. 01:49:58 nice! 01:50:31 GIANT_CRAB, Reports keep popping up in CommBlog from time to time about India events. 01:50:41 you can find the dates on the apac pagure. 01:50:49 is there any way I can help you with? 01:51:17 okay! I'll check them out and add it to the list 01:51:19 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/events 01:51:35 GIANT_CRAB, Feel free! For the upcoming event, our target audience is college students who will use Linux at some point (or are new to it) 01:51:53 It's a really good opportunity to pitch Fedora and maybe the Python Classroom spin 01:52:04 Since a lot of courses in India are Python oriented 01:52:58 And people here use $a_very_popular_debian_based_distro here because it comes pre-installed in all the lab machines and they don't have much choice. 01:53:25 They get familiar to it and then, they dual boot their laptops with it. TBH, people thought Fedora was really cool when I told them it was better back in my college 01:53:53 The gnome animations did have a major role in making them say that :) 01:54:26 well, $a_very_popular_debian_based_distro now uses gnome by default 01:54:38 and systemd too 01:54:50 Ah yes, but I don't think the colleges are planning to switch to the latest release anytime soon :P 01:55:15 Because the faculty folks are trained to use Unity. 01:55:31 If they make a sudden switch, they'll be lost. 01:55:36 oh 01:55:45 but I think they could still re-enable Unity 01:56:14 i've saw an article about Ubuntu working on Unity again (straight up few weeks after they decided to drop it) 01:56:17 Yes, but my point is - This is a great opportunity to Pitch in Fedora and see what they think about it. 01:56:37 mmmmm I see! 01:56:38 GIANT_CRAB, Yes there is but it won't receive any UI updates. 01:56:52 (unless the community takes over the development) 01:57:16 And we have something, Ubuntu doesn't have. Fedora Lab spins! :D 01:57:49 does talking about freedom convince people? 01:58:15 I guess that depends on how we pitch it. 01:58:28 since Fedora is the most libre mainstream distros 01:58:35 We can take the "Closed is evil" approach or "Free is awesome" approach. 01:58:52 I usually start with the first and move to second for the best impact. 01:59:27 (and quote Torvalds on why he doesn't prefer $the_popular_distro) sometimes 01:59:54 is Linus still using Fedora? 02:00:37 I have no clue. There was no recent news 02:03:10 mmmmm 02:03:37 From what I see on his gplus feed, he was on Fedora till 21 02:03:42 No news after that 02:03:46 #topic contributor growth 02:04:13 #info take the "Closed is evil" approach or "Free is awesome" approach. - skamath 02:04:51 * skamath is going afk for an hour or so. I've got a ceremony to attend here 02:04:55 kagesenshi: any comments? 02:05:02 skamath: alright! 02:06:08 On status of .my? 02:07:28 Well .. on this side things are kinda .. open source is quite norm that I kind of lost on what to promote xD 02:08:02 Local distro usergroups all pretty much silent now .. 02:08:43 But tech stack usergroups are like mushrooms 02:09:55 Need to new strategy for contributor growth .. but I'm not sure what 02:10:44 mmmmm 02:11:19 are you currently still working for a contractor of Red Hat (or did I phrased it incorrectly?) 02:12:08 Biz Partner .. even there the customer interest is more in jboss / openshift rather than the OS itself 02:12:38 Though my department focus now is more on Hortonworks stack 02:14:21 OS , customer just take whatever OS the stack comes together with 02:16:27 that's a challenging issue 02:18:13 .fasinfo kagesenshi 02:18:16 GIANT_CRAB: User "kagesenshi" doesn't exist 02:18:25 .fasinfo izhar 02:18:29 kagesenshi_: User: izhar, Name: Mohd Izhar Firdaus Ismail, email: kagesenshi.87@gmail.com, Creation: 2007-03-05, IRC Nick: kagesenshi, Timezone: Asia/Kuala_Lumpur, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 8A5D7331, Status: active 02:18:32 kagesenshi_: Approved Groups: cvsl10n fedorabugs cla_fedora cla_done packager ambassadors cla_fpca 02:19:17 .hello bex 02:19:19 bexelbie[m]: bex 'Brian (bex) Exelbierd' 02:19:27 do you think that is an issue though? 02:19:43 hey bexelbie[m] ! Thanks for joining at such weird early hours 02:19:53 .chair bexelbie[m] 02:19:55 bexelbie [m] is seated in a chair with a nice view of a placid lake, unsuspecting that another chair is about to be slammed into them. 02:20:22 #chair bexelbie[m] 02:20:22 Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB bexelbie[m] kagesenshi skamath 02:20:36 You’re welcome. I’m sorry I’m late. I won a game of late both Settlers while not remembering this 02:21:19 Is there an ether pad I can read back on? 02:21:35 no worries! kagesenshi_ was just discussing about challenges 02:21:36 @GIANT_CRAB: , for open source, it's not an issue .. it shows that open source is well adopted here to the point ppl don't even think about OS / distro anymore .. but it do cause it difficult for me to think of something to do under Fedora brand .. I have lots of idea if its under openshift, Hortonworks, python brand 02:22:10 bexelbie[m]: I'll get one up now 02:22:13 with summary 02:23:13 https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/VFAD_APAC_2018 02:24:27 I’m guessing a bit at the topic, but could we focus efforts on people solving problems and show them how Fedora makes that easier. Following along with the new mission statement? For example targeting developers or people who might build labs 02:24:36 Labs on Fedora I mean 02:24:45 #link https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/VFAD_APAC_2018 02:27:07 What is the current topic relative to what is in the pad? 02:27:28 current topic is contributor growth 02:28:54 washzeasy ? 02:29:15 oh 02:29:36 Sorry. On a phone. Will grab the laptop if the typos get worse :) 02:29:44 okay, so what does Fedora make things easy/convenient? 02:29:51 Fedora Labs and spins? 02:30:09 For everyone I wrote: why not turn this away from “us vs them” and focus on what is easy to do in Fedora. Theoretically you can do basically anything in any district. Let’s talk up what we make easy. 02:30:44 I think the fact that we will build labs (non-release blocking) means you can target to your audience 02:31:04 We have an easy on boarding for packages and with Modularity we are looking at delivering multiple versions of software. 02:32:00 Two ideas 02:32:07 I’m sure there are more 02:32:25 Part of it is you need to define who you’re trying to talk. What kind of contributors or users 02:33:00 Another thing that might appeal is the presence of local community in APAC but not being segregated when doing contribution from people around the world. 02:35:14 so how would one organize an event to attract people who might be potentially interested in the Security Lab of Fedora? 02:35:36 For students the fact that we participate in things like GSoC and other distributions don’t. 02:36:05 For the security lab have a talk/tutorial. Show how to use it 02:36:56 The role of ambassadors for that might be to find the right contributor (ambassador or not) and get them there. Provide funding and logistics. 02:37:43 The ambassador is not expected to be an expert in everything and do it all. Find the right person and place and let someone else do the lab/tutorial/talk 02:38:41 Even if that means flying in someone from another region/country. A good event with lots of potential can justify that. 02:39:18 We do it now 02:39:46 * bexelbie[m] is talking too much. I want to listen too :):) 02:40:39 Kagesenshi_ what would you do under those other brands? 02:40:40 Okay, so should we /ever/ have an open way of allowing people who wish to present at APAC conferences (with topics related to Fedora or usage of Fedora, etc?) 02:41:17 or scholarships for students who like to attend FLOSS events or APAC conferences? 02:41:37 This would cost a lot, though. 02:41:47 Or you think there's a better approach or alternative? 02:41:49 We can’t stop someone from presenting. Instead I’d consider how can we encourage them to talk? 02:42:04 I’m less in favor of scholarships without a strong justification. 02:42:26 And I’m not worried about money because I see how much we have at budget.fp.o 02:42:33 the student must have contributed to Fedora in some way? 02:43:06 How does sending a student to a conference help Fedora too? A speaker is easier to understand. 02:43:44 @bexelbie[m]: , let's see .. openshift - talks / workshop around automation on the platform .. Hortonworks - data management, data processing, distributed programming talks .. python - web development, distributed programming , etc .. and even project ideas 02:43:51 A random contributor attending for no special reason that matters to both Fedora and them is harder for me to understand. 02:44:18 I want to go to conference X vs I am speaking at conference X vs I am going to conference X to be part of the Y working group that affects Fedora by ... 02:44:32 You are right. 02:44:40 Kagesenshi_ how are those incompatible with Fedora? 02:45:02 So the conference should be related to free software or Fedora? Or strictly Fedora related? 02:45:22 One way to attract developers, for example, as users who may become contributors is to have Fedora as the example OS in other talks 02:45:53 hmmmm 02:45:59 The only relationship I can think of .. Openshift / python - runs of Fedora xD .. Hadoop/Hortonworks runs on CentOS 02:46:38 Ubuntu has lots of mindshare because a TON of talks, blogs, etc use it as the example. We won’t change that in one year but we can show cool stuff on Fedora 02:46:45 I do that for all my talks that I give at conferences and meetups. Sometimes, curious folks ask what I'm running and I talk to them and discuss etc. Nothing much of a way to follow up? 02:47:02 And not just rehashing last week’s Ubuntu story using dnf instead of apt 02:47:45 Running on Fedora is important. And for openshift, I believe they are working on making Fedora be the first platform. 02:47:51 kagesenshi_: easy to setup OpenShift for dev use on Fedora 02:48:15 but its not easy to setup OpenShift for enterprise usage AFAIK? Or am I wrong. 02:48:30 It's easier on centos / rhel 02:48:39 For python we ship it early like many, but we also have the python classroom lab and “Fedora loves python” — although I don’t know what that means really for deva 02:48:42 Devs 02:48:48 I tried doing it. Lots of edges that cut me, including the complicated Role based Authorization control 02:49:14 Fedora might not be the preferred environment for the container runtime 02:49:15 Iirc there's ansible script u can just run 02:49:26 But it is a great container runtime. 02:50:00 Try doing a Java app in a CentOS container with software collections. It can get hairy. 02:50:21 There is also mini shift iirc for Fedora 02:50:49 ah yes, I run MiniShift on Fedora 02:51:13 GIANT_CRAB (IRC): For followup - treat the person like you would someone who came to the booth. Follow up the same way 02:54:11 So how do we invite/encourage people to give talks about Fedora? 02:54:47 But before that, how do we build a local Fedora community? 02:55:54 Post a talk on YouTube - get swag. Giving a talk - get funding. Here is a list of 15 talk ideas and three conferences to submit too. Fedora talk? Let us help you review you submission and polish it. 02:56:34 Who do you want to build a community of? Let that dictate how and where 03:00:05 Okay, so do I create a wiki page for APAC on things we provide support/funding for? 03:01:00 bexelbie[m]: I'm thinking of focusing on cloud related since folks here like to talk about cloud 03:01:31 If that is what works. However a wiki page alone won’t draw people in. More than likely ambassadors need to find people and help them be successful 03:02:09 Fedora Atomic has a good cloud story, aiui 03:02:37 How can we connect that to the places local to you where cloud gets talked, for example 03:02:57 #action Create a wiki page to aid ambassadors in finding potential contributors 03:03:25 #action Create a wiki page on resources/funding/assistance we can provide to potential contributors 03:04:42 bexelbie[m]: okay, so lets say I'm at an AWS meetup as an attendee, how do I promote the use of Fedora? And if I'm a speaker, how do I promote the use of Fedora without making the topic look like I'm solely promoting Fedora? 03:05:12 kagesenshi_: any ideas on this too? 03:05:40 Promote Fedora by showing it used to solve a real problem faced by the attendees. 03:06:14 Few people run an OS for the thrill of seeing it boot - they rub it to solve a problem. 03:06:58 @GIANT_CRAB, none .. am looking at others for ideas at the moment XD 03:07:22 lol 03:07:31 The same as with code. I have a new project. I could use python or ruby. Ruby has a special library that makes it easy. Python doesn’t. Today I’ll write ruby :D 03:08:18 Or they both have the library but the presenter used python so o do too because I can borrow ideas and code from the presentation. 03:09:27 Show a cloud group hie to leverage AWS to solve their problem in Fedora and some will use it. Even if the same solution basically works in Ubuntu and AmazinLinux 03:09:36 mmmm, that's great. Then how do I source for potential contributors at such meetups or events? 03:09:47 Hie = how 03:10:29 Who do you know? Ask on devel list. Ask other ambassadors. Ask related working groups and sigs. Look at Fedora planet. 03:10:52 I just go like "hello, my name is XYZ, whats yours?" "Fedora Ambassador, blah blah, we're looking for contributors?" 03:11:41 I posted to devel-list and got an openshift person and a cockpit person to help at a booth at a developer conference 03:11:58 Also, cockpit is another great demo piece, imho 03:12:46 what developer conference was it? 03:12:55 Ahh misunderstood you’re question - talking to people is cultural. But generally try to connect people to their interests. 03:13:03 Buildstuff.lt 03:13:47 Ideally you’d have a contact in that area. In my experience that is often not the case. 03:14:33 We did a joint Fedora/CentOS booth 03:15:57 Part of the consideration is that contributors generally are motivated to contribute to scratch an itch: that could be to solve their problem; change the world; get an ‘A’ from their professor or to get a free T-shirt. 03:16:24 Knowing why they want to contribute is key. 03:17:05 Letting them know they can and gaining the altruistic contributors is where in person work often helps 03:17:19 mmmm! 03:18:10 how much can we set aside for booths? 03:18:45 And I heard a great line from an MDN coordinator, “ Don’t look down on the contributors who only do it for the T-shirt. You still got the contribution!” 03:19:33 Mozilla Developer Network? 03:20:31 Yes 03:20:39 Iirc 03:22:31 Re:money - that’s not the primary concern in my opinion. 03:22:33 https://budget.fedoraproject.org/budget/FY18/overall.html 03:22:53 APAC has over $4000 left unspent 03:23:00 Look at what Fedora has overall unspent. 03:23:33 Yes, it is possible to use it all. But so far that has been a problem we’d like to have not one we have. 03:23:51 And APAC can get more from the council. 03:25:23 It’s an relatively easy process. Here is how EMEA did it: https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/163 03:28:47 Okay, so if an ambassador would like to request for budget for an event, they go to the APAC ambassadors ticketing and raise a ticket? Just clarifying 03:29:41 I don’t know the process in APAC. However with the new Mindshare group I suggest we work with them on a lightweight process. 03:29:51 If we need a new one at all 03:30:15 What's this Mindshare group thing? 03:30:41 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mindshare 03:32:15 It is replacing and expanding FAmSCo 03:32:37 bexelbie[m]: current process for APAC is -- during a FAD, we put up a list of events with our budgets. we go through the list during FAD in the order and discuss whether it is a GO or NO GO 03:32:55 Ambassadors have appointed reps ... maybe someone from APAC could/should volunteer? 03:32:56 when the event comes closer, we raise a ticket for the event, requesting for budget 03:33:39 it is then decided whether the budget is approved. If not approved, then the event is still a NO GO despite the GO during the FAD. 03:33:44 That is certainly one option. But it seems to mean that good ideas thought if after the FAD can’t be done. That feels limiting. 03:34:09 yes, I think so too. it is very very limiting 03:34:17 Other regions just approve as they go. 03:34:35 okay, so do we need to re-think the approval process? 03:34:58 and do we still collate a list of events we want to carry out? 03:35:16 Setting goals would be cool though. Like we want to focus on these kinds of audiences or definitely have a presence at these events 03:35:17 like how we do it on 03:35:20 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/events 03:35:35 okay, so goals are important 03:35:55 do we need to do 'budget forecasting' like we used to do? 03:36:20 #action come up with a new and better way for event approval 03:36:27 No. Right now we don’t. 03:36:40 If that changes I’ll definitely let you know. 03:37:49 The council is saying they would like to experiments and action. Think about what happened. Did we achieve our goals, would we do it again? Would we change anything? 03:38:44 The budgets appeared to shrink so that the money could stay useful. As an example: 03:39:22 The $4500 underspent in APAC is hard to take back and use for other things. Imagine if it were $15000 03:41:15 And not succeeding is not shameful if you had a realist. plan for success. Analyze results and grow. Look at Modularity. 03:41:55 Realistic not realist 03:41:58 hello zsun 03:42:07 #chair zsun 03:42:07 Current chairs: GIANT_CRAB bexelbie[m] kagesenshi skamath zsun 03:42:17 bexelbie[m]: mmmmm 03:42:22 o/ 03:42:44 Skamarth is here? 03:43:04 #topic organizing an event 03:43:23 bexelbie[m]: yap. He's afk for a while, attending to an event 03:43:35 Cool 03:45:32 Added that part into the etherpad 03:45:45 #link https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/VFAD_APAC_2018 03:46:27 hi GIANT_CRAB. 03:46:37 #info Experiment and reflect (Think about what happened. Did we achieve our goals, would we do it again? Would we change anything?) - Bex 03:46:39 * zsun can only be here for about an hour 03:46:56 okay 03:47:00 Perhaps the work that LATAM just did on this could be borrowed for APAC (or the process from NA or EMEA) - no need to reinvent from scratch 03:47:15 bexelbie[m]: can we jump topic to issues that zsun might want to discuss? 03:47:22 Sure 03:47:32 #topic Issues/challenges faced by China & Taiwan 03:47:44 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VFAD_APAC_2018/challenges#Challenges_Faced 03:48:04 zsun has kindly put up a list of challenges he has faced so far 03:48:44 Issues include Lack of contributors in organizing events., Open Source is popular in China in a wrong way, Lack of packagers. 03:48:59 zsun: any comments you would like to raise? 03:49:33 #topic Lack of contributors in organizing events [CHINA] 03:50:33 For the latter one, lack of packagers, it is an outstanding problem in TW but luckily not in mainland China. I can only mention that since we still have some active packagers, we can help them pick up some packages in the short run 03:51:09 In this way, they can have more time to motivate people to be a packager 03:51:39 Is the goal packagers in China then? 03:52:03 * zsun did not catch bexelbie's point 03:52:20 What is the motivation:incentive for the contributor? Why should they package? 03:52:50 I meant: is the focus of Chinese ambassadors mostly on os having and not other contributions? 03:53:04 Ugh typos 03:53:16 bexelbie[m]: No. 03:53:23 I meant: is the focus of Chinese ambassadors mostly on packaging and not other contributions? 03:53:46 So is the primary focus working? 03:53:55 In fact most of us have our own focuse based on available time - packaging , translation, etc. 03:54:40 As I mentioned in the challenge section, we are lacking of event-organizers 03:54:41 That’s cool. But is there a goal as ambassadors? Or only as contributors? 03:55:08 Both are fine, just trying to understand what is not working. What’s not getting done? 03:55:27 What events would we have, if we had people? 03:56:30 I still hold the same opinion as we talked during LinuxCon - I do think we need to hold events in campus, so that more students can involve and help. 03:57:26 If I recall we weren’t sure we could even get in campus 03:58:10 What would those students be doing? Do we have people (remote or local) who can help them after the event that attracts them? 03:58:58 RH has offices in China. If I could find someone to organize logistics does that change anything? 03:59:44 I believe we can help online. 04:00:22 Should we try something as basic as “come to this coffee shop. Watch me package, let’s livestream this and pair package - ask questions and learn things”? 04:00:49 So do we just need an intro event and then do online followup? 04:02:39 I believe packaging isn't that interesting for them in China - I believe this is what we mean by not sure before. Finding what they want is still essential. And that need someone who have some more time, rather than people just like me or others who are too busy for offline events 04:02:50 * bexelbie[m] is willing to live-program terribly in ruby to get contributors to docs tooling :) 04:03:52 ha! 04:03:59 If we don’t know what they want and we don’t have resources to find out, maybe we should pick a more realistic goal? We don’t have to focus on students if there is an easier group 04:05:13 Yup, I mostly agree. I don't know much about other groups so I should leave this question to someone else 04:05:27 Or maybe, finding out a focused group can be a short term goal 04:05:43 Sounds like a good one. 04:06:42 Fedora has a no-cost booth presence with other RH communities in Beijing at LinuxCon. Can we use that to do the research somehow? 04:08:12 Sounds like we can use some of the data / evidence from LinuxCon Beijing as a reference 04:08:32 #action Find out no-cost booth with RH communities for APAC region 04:09:17 I can help with that and i bet Harish can to 04:10:32 There is also a booth in Japan but the show has a heavy automotive theme too (Open Source Summit Tokyo) 04:10:46 I'd mark the short-term goal for mainland China. 04:10:55 APAC may need to buy tickets, etc but we can work that out 04:11:39 #action CN: Find out a focused group for events etc. to work on. 04:12:04 For TW and HK, I don't know much. Should leave it to their ambassadors. 04:14:39 any other issues you would like to comment on? Or anything we can help with? 04:14:56 Are there any events you are organizing that I can help with? 04:15:06 * zsun no more comments yet 04:15:59 are there still logistics issues? 04:16:16 I recall you mentioned about difficulties with logistics/swags going to China 04:17:14 Shipping to China is still a problem. But I believe swag related issue can be seen as not a blocker. Either we produce it in China, or we ask RH Beijing for direct help 04:18:20 Cool 04:19:17 Or I should explain like this: We cannot follow the central production way of APAC due to import/export regulations. We can produce our own in China which won't be too pricey and will be much easier that import 04:19:31 thats good to hear 04:21:09 I believe you can continue to other topics / regions 04:21:24 Alright, thank you! 04:22:32 #topic Future Events 04:22:49 Specifically, sponsoring a prize for Hackathons 04:23:26 Harish is one of the organizers for the code::XtremeApps hackathon, so the booth would be gratis 04:24:16 I've seen Justin had a booth for one of the Hackathons that was in his school? And wanted to try to adopt something similar to what he did (because it seemed successful) 04:25:03 I'm thinking that Fedora /could/ sponsor a prize for the Hackathon. But what do you think should be the criteria to win this "Open source prize"? 04:25:14 Or do you think that sponsoring a prize is a bad idea? 04:26:15 I don't know the status in SG, while in CN this is a bad idea - People don't really care about who sponsored the prize 04:26:47 Perhaps we can do a different kind of sponsorship? 04:27:01 Or could we give a prize for the best solution that uses Fedora? 04:27:10 What kind of sponsorship? 04:27:10 Tie it to our goals? 04:27:52 What’s the goal. A sponsorship is your name in front of people. Are these our audiences? 04:28:40 Iirc Justin’s events feature coaches from Fedora to help people. The sponsorship is our “cost” to get them in the door. 04:29:28 * skamath is back 04:29:30 Hey bexelbie[m] o/ 04:30:18 o/ 04:31:23 From what I see on the scrollback (znc doesn't have more than 50 for me), targeting students is the right thing to do, atleast in apac 04:31:55 I was telling GIANT_CRAB about how Ubuntu is imposed upon students in India and how to get over it 04:32:28 Can you share that here? 04:32:32 I don't know about the other regions but I think I know how it is in India. 04:32:45 bexelbie[m], It was a while before you joined. Hold on. I'll say it again. 04:32:52 So, this is how it is in my college : 04:32:54 I’m not opposed to students but what’s the goal there in India? 04:33:13 bexelbie[m]: get them in the door? 04:33:24 We have ubuntu distributions here and faculty members are well-versed in it and they all are so used to Unity. 04:33:29 coaches? I see 04:33:58 When I showed them Fedora, they were really excited about it. They hadn't seen anything like it before Linux was pretty much equal to Ubuntu for them 04:34:12