#meeting:fedoraproject.org log

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:31:26

!startmeeting Fedora DEI Team - 2025-10-02

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

11:31:28

Meeting started at 2025-10-02 11:31:26 UTC

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:31:29

!meetingname diversity

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

11:31:29

The Meeting name is 'Fedora DEI Team - 2025-10-02'

<@meetbot:fedora.im>

11:31:30

The Meeting Name is now diversity

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:31:39

!hi

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:31:40

Helloo

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

11:31:41

No Fedora Accounts users have the @misc:ephaone.org Matrix Account defined

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:31:43

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

11:31:45

Cornelius Emase (lochipi) - he / him / his

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:32:35

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

11:32:36

Justin Wheeler (jflory7) - he / him / his

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:32:47

Hi Justin, Misc

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:32:48

Moin Moin 👋🏻

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:33:10

French? :)

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:33:17

german

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:33:26

That :)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:33:38

I mean, I don't know where it comes from. And it seems like they only say it in parts of Germany

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:33:52

ah, I started German lessons on Udemy and never finished the intro

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:34:20

Or maybe I should say mirëmëngjes, just to keep things interesting 😉

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:34:57

We'll start in 1 min

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:35:02

(Albanian 🇦🇱)

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:35:22

oh, where is Jona Azizaj (she/her) 😄

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:35:31

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

11:35:32

Jona Azizaj (jonatoni) - she / her / hers

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:35:49

I came just in time 😛

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:36:34

yea yeah, let's proceed to the agendas

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:36:36

!topic Agenda

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:36:50

!info Team announcements & news

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:37:19

!info Fedora DEI team Q1-Q3 report

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:37:25

!link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-dei-team-q1-q3-2025-highlights/

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:37:56

!info Flock 2026 planning is actively underway. A contract is under negotiation. A public announcement will come promptly once the ink dries on a contract. Stay tuned.

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:38:04

Ohhh nice I need to read this

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:38:33

yea yeah, we've done quite a lot while you were away :)take your time, but it's short

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:38:46

we need to update the preview 😅

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:39:00

!info The Fedora Council will soon make a final vote on the AI policy for Fedora. There is a topic on Fedora Discussion with the details.

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:39:19

the preview image?

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:39:29

so, who from the DEI team assessed the location, per the policy that was voted not so long ago ?

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:39:51

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/event-location-policy/#location

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:40:34

also title and description

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:40:38

I guess me?

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:40:54

Justin and me as well

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:41:11

okay, I'll check that

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:41:15

Spoiler: It won't be much of a surprise for 2026.

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:41:26

if you did that during your time off, that would likely count as a labor code violation :p

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:41:27

thanks

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:41:47

(or maybe not in the US)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:41:48

No, this ball was already rolling two months ago 😛

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:42:19

And besides, Americans don't have labor codes, we live to work, not work to live (/sarcasm)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:42:28

Heheh exactly

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:42:36

However, I will say this—

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:42:46

We are hoping to be ambitious with a new location in 2027

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:42:54

The policy will definitely be impactful for that ambition

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:43:07

Because we are going to do something we have never done before in 2027

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:43:10

That's all I can say for now.

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:44:25

okay, that'd be nice, we're hoping right? :). I shouldn't miss that or you come to Nairobi xD

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:44:29

a bit more transparency would IMHO be more in line with the value of the project (and in line with the policy)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:45:12

The reason I don't have more to say is because there needs to be wider community discussion. Flock is not my dictatorship but I'm allowed to have ideas and thoughts about the future too.

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:45:39

Kenya is on my personal list for one day :)

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:46:42

plus it will be an article (?) coming soon to talk about the location in 2026 and whats next for 2027

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:46:48

In the interest in transparency, I guess my idea is LATAM or APAC in 2027, but again, we need more community input when the time is right

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:46:53

Yes, that too

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:47:20

We have an article draft teed up, but as we may remember from Flock 2024 and the doomed Mexico City bid, I'd like to wait until the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:48:02

And right now, I also just want to get through 2026 first :P

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:49:13

Also, CommOps via Robert is helping write an article about the Flock attendee survey feedback

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:49:23

To help walk through the rationale of our thinking for 2026 and 2027

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:49:34

Comms is something I am particularly sensitive toward and want to improve on for the next Flocks

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:50:04

Anyways, sorry for siderailing a bit

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:50:10

Maybe it's better we get back to the agenda?

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:50:37

Any other news to share?

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:50:55

okay, I think building local communities and pushing local events would be awesome, the idea of Ambassadors - I think there's a lot in the 2028 strategy? doubling contributors number, of which when you decide to move to a certain region, we would have more people from regions(new) we would like to try

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:51:26

Maybe not the right time now to discuss in the meeting, but I definitely want to have more of these conversations :)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:51:36

(unless we have a planned ticket discussion of course)

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:51:48

!info Our new home: Fedora forge

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:51:52

!link https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/announcing-the-soft-launch-of-fedora-forge/

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:52:09

we have an open ticket for that as well

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:52:37

#45

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:52:42

We should say hi to Ryan Lerch on this one IMHO

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:52:50

For how we migrate ourselves

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:53:28

we're all moving to Forgejo?

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:54:03

Eventually, yes

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:54:26

!info DEI Advisor updates to the team

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:54:49

getting ride of gitlab would mean I do not need to log with 2FA each time I have to open a url under Fedora, even just for reading

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:55:25

I think we are _all_ nearly ready to burn down GitLab. The passive-aggressive threats of expiring our Open Source subscription is also not fun.

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:55:53

(sorry, a sidebar)

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:55:57

I will open a ticket for the migration - so we track our work on this

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:56:08

Awesome

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:56:27

so no updates from my side - Justin already mentioned the AI policy we have been working on

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:56:28

I mentioned Ryan Lerch because he has been working on a lot of the migrations for other teams

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

11:56:33

So he might have some good advice and tips

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:56:55

nice, we will definitely need to catch up with him

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:57:24

Awesome

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:58:16

I droped the next agenda, DEI Advisor updates. Jona Azizaj (she/her)

<@misc:ephaone.org>

11:58:34

!action Jona Azizaj (she/her) to open a ticket for forge migration

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:59:13

so no updates from Council, but please check out the AI policy draft and add your comments/feedback

<@jonatoni:fedora.im>

11:59:24

if you already did that, thanks a lot 🙂

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

11:59:54

okay, thanks Jona. To our next topic

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:00:00

!info Follow-ups from last meeting

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:00:05

any follow up?

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:00:22

I don't think we had, or anyone would like to point something?

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:00:56

to the next topic

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:01:03

!info Ticket-driven discussion

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:01:38

!info Criteria proposal for the Event policy: "No Obligation Preventing Unconferences on the Topic of Inclusion and Name-changing"

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:01:54

!link https://gitlab.com/fedora/dei/home/-/issues/57

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:02:56

(also another reason to dislike github, the link to the MR is not very visible: https://gitlab.com/fedora/dei/docs/-/merge_requests/25 )

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:04:30

I'm doing the SSO dance, slowly…

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:05:25

I usually just open the link in a private window

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:05:39

!hi

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

12:05:40

Mat H (theprogram)

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:06:07

any input or discussion you wanted to discuss about the tickets? misc , dropping the other one in a min

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:06:31

I think you already had co-sponsor for the above

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:06:41

that's the same ticket or rather 1 is a ticket, the other is the MR

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:06:46

I don't like that it is called "No Putin Policy"

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:07:29

The title of the policy is also confusing to me

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:07:42

But in substance, it seems OK. I'm just confused a bit on how it ties into the existing event policy

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:07:58

I do not have the mastery of US congress to find catchy acronyms :p

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:08:06

The title of the policy is also confusing to me (No Obligation Preventing Unconferences on the Topic of Inclusion and Name-changing)

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:08:17

oh! didn't realize, might be I lack fresh air from this weather :) I think Jona Azizaj (she/her) and @justin should look into the MR

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:08:21

I think it is better to be concise and clear, not try to come up with a catchy acronym per se

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:08:34

I had to look up what an unconference is

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:08:38

Even as a native English speaker, the title is very confusing to me

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:08:52

So I suggest changing the name

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:08:57

But the content is good

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:09:51

Possible new title idea: Location Exclusion for Anti-LGBTQ & Censorship Laws

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:10:12

(and the policy is explicit: "A name for the proposal. A pun in the acronym is not required, but always appreciated." :p

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:10:38

And please please change the `noputin-policy` name too because SEO is going to index that and I don't want the bot farms/trolls who might accidentally discover it because of a small thing like that

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:11:16

Never mind the fact that Red Hat could never organize an event in Russia anyways, I am pretty sure

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:11:32

For sanctions-related reasons, I mean

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:11:35

There are plenty of facist regimes that we should not name :)

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:11:43

there is more than russia where this would be problem, per the example

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:12:00

The filename is misleading in that way though

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:12:05

It seems to single out Russia

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:13:14

and Louisville

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:13:45

Examples in the policy are fine. The content seems OK, although I reserve the right to take a closer review when I am a bit more caffeinated 🙂

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:13:56

Although, thinking about it, I am still confused how this works with the existing policy

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:14:03

And why we are making something new, versus amending what already exists

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:14:04

One reason not to name places, is that systems change quickly - one yer things are fine - next year they are not, and vice versa

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:14:29

I do think it is practically useful to use real-world examples in the policy doc, though. If the situations change, then we can update them later.

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:14:49

that's the example section

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:14:51

That is where the power of community could help us keep current on any named examples in the policy text

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:14:55

it is meant to illustrate, not be a list

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:14:56

So this 'no oblihation... ' policy is intended to work together with the existing 'location policy'?

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:15:28

yes, the existing policy is a policy that say "follow the list of sub policy listed here"

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:16:07

Hmmm. I guess that works but this feels like complicating things a lot, and I could definitely see some succession issues with adhering to the policy if it is too complicated to understand

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:16:15

The structure of this policy feels a bit over-engineered

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:16:24

I guess the existing policy should have been clearer on the way thing get evaluated, because this was obvious to me, but it seems it is obvious only to me

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:16:38

And to be clear, I am not disagreeing with the idea in its principle, but I want to implement it in a way that actually will get followed

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:17:07

In the 'location policy' (does someone have a quick link to it?

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:17:14

it was done on purpose, to split in smaller chunk that can be discussed

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:17:32

!link https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/event-location-policy/

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:17:32

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/event-location-policy/

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:17:39

This is a Council-level policy

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:17:39

I can see that 'unconferences' ie meeting of people, should be safe.

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:17:46

And this new draft appears to be under the DEI Team?

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:18:13

per approved process, the DEI team approve first, then it get escalated to council

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:18:16

Modularity as an engineer makes sense. For policy, I'm not sure. Consider how most laws and bills around the world tend to be long, long documents 🙂 Having it all in one place is important.

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:18:32

Ah, okay. But the MR is on the DEI repo, not the Council?

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:18:32

From the location policy "To give a example, a law that prevent so-called "LGBT propaganda" would create legal risk if the DEI team decide to have a meeting"

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:19:13

our docs are a bit of a mess, but I think the exact location do not matter, people from council and DEI team can vote anyway

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:19:56

I am not attached to the location, to be clear

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:20:16

It matters because everyone in Fedora has to follow council policy, but only DEI members have to follow DEI policy (in my view)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:20:17

I guess my desire is to see an amendment to the current policy, instead of creating a new policy sub-module

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:20:21

(other than size of the repo, I likely used dei team because the council one was too big )

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:20:28

Right.

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:21:09

the council policy say the council will ask the DEI team

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:22:02

> "Anyone in the project can submit a new criteria in the policy by opening a ticket to the DEI tracker."

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:22:05

We have done that though

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:22:09

Or, you have I mean 🙂

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:22:37

(time check: 8 minutes remaining – I also have a hard stop at the end too)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:23:11

I can try and summarize my comments on the issue in our team tracker

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:23:12

so who is taking the lead of driving the discussion for a new name of the policy ? (so I can assign a AI)

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:23:17

Since the policy seems to encourage discussion to go there

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:23:26

I guess you and Timothée 🙂

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:23:39

> "The name/FAS ID of 2 persons responsible for pushing the proposal, answering to questions and submitting the changes and merge requests."

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:23:42

I keep the name as I chose

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:23:45

so perfect

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:24:09

But it should be a policy amendment, not a new policy

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:24:12

if people disagree with the name, feel free to vote against the policy

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:24:14

So no title is necessary really

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:24:26

The name is not clear about what the policy is, you should rethink it.

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:24:31

I'm sorry, but in its current form, I am -1. It will make more questions than answers.

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:24:40

And I don't think it will get the outcome we all want

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:25:09

I can commit myself to writing more thoughtful, detailed feedback in the issue

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:25:12

I completely agree with the substance of the proposal, but I think the Location Policy covers it.

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:25:13

since 2026 is already decided, I think we do not have a deadline to get it accepted, so I am fully ok to test the process of a refusal

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:25:18

Since that seems to be the correct mechanism for discussing the change

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:25:30

☹️ This makes me sad, Misc

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:25:48

And it will get unnecessary comments because we have to be super public about policy change

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:25:55

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/policy/policy-change-policy/

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:26:16

well, the super public nature is why it took me 1 month to find a willing co-sponsor, so I am also fully ok with that

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:26:41

We need to find a better compromise

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:27:08

I will action myself to this one

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:27:08

Lets talk about it in the ticket

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:27:15

I think we will continue this conversation our room and in the ticket, I think we would have the floor open but close when the time ends. 3 min left

<@misc:ephaone.org>

12:27:27

!action Justin Wheeler write feedback on the ticket

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:27:42

I think we will continue this conversation our room and in the ticket, I think we wouldn't have the floor open but close when the time ends. 3 min left

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:27:49

!action @jflory7 Add a comment to DEI issue #57 about feedback on misc and Timothée Ravier (travier)'s feedback proposal on the event location exclusion policy

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:27:59

As I came in late - I suggest APAC, Vietnam for a great conference location.. Cheap, accessible and nearly anyone can get a visa for USD$25

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:28:32

LATAM would be great, but expensive to get to and some people can't go there

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:28:43

Folks, I am going to start transitioning for my next meeting. I need to do some quick prep!

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:28:57

Cornelius Emase: Thanks for being our chair, even if it was a bit of a chaotic discussion today 😄

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:28:59

Thanks guys for joining

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:29:00

Cornelius Emase++

<@zodbot:fedora.im>

12:29:01

jflory7 has already given cookies to lochipi during the F42 timeframe

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:29:11

Good discussion!

<@theprogram:fedora.im>

12:29:25

Nice to have lots of passionate people here!

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:29:50

endin in 5 sec

<@jflory7:fedora.im>

12:30:28

The better situation to have than the opposite 🙂

<@lochipi:matrix.org>

12:30:57

!endmeeting