00:03:52 <stickster> #startmeeting
00:03:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar  4 00:03:52 2010 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:03:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:03:55 <stickster> #meetingname Docs
00:03:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
00:04:37 <stickster> #topic Roll call!
00:04:41 * jjmcd .
00:04:42 * stickster 
00:04:44 * rudi is here (kinda)
00:04:49 * threethirty 
00:05:27 * stickster holds the roll call open for 20 more sec
00:05:40 <jjmcd> Emad78, chime in!
00:06:27 <Emad78> Im here, Im here
00:06:38 <stickster> #topic Alpha announcement
00:06:46 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcements
00:07:11 <stickster> OK, we have a page (link above) that gives instructions for how to do this
00:07:32 <stickster> What we need now is someone who is willing to write up a draft, send the wiki URL to the docs team for editing, and then collect the results
00:08:16 <stickster> The draft should be done by... let's say Saturday 2010-03-06
00:08:16 <jjmcd> When is it due?  Isn't mchua_afk supposed to be engaged?
00:08:42 <stickster> jjmcd: We can't expect mchua_afk to do everything y'know! :-)
00:08:53 <stickster> I think threethirty, you had put up a hand to help here, right?
00:09:02 <threethirty> yeah
00:09:05 <stickster> Yay!
00:09:08 <jjmcd> Yeah, I just thought she was supposed to provide the marketing spin
00:09:33 <jjmcd> threethirty, I'll be around the next few days (unlike the past few) if you need a shoulder to cry on
00:09:35 <stickster> jjmcd: I think threethirty is handling that
00:09:40 <stickster> OK
00:09:55 <stickster> #action threethirty to draft release announcement based on link instructions
00:10:16 <stickster> threethirty: If you find problems in that page of instructions -- things that don't make sense or don't match up with other things people have told you -- don't be afraid to cry foul!
00:10:27 <threethirty> alrighty
00:10:37 <jjmcd> Most of us are idling in the docs channel most of the time
00:10:51 <stickster> threethirty: I'm going to quickly find the F-11 and F-12 announcements and add them to the list of links at the bottom of that page
00:11:13 <threethirty> that would be a great help, ty, this is my first release
00:11:37 <jjmcd> threethirty, plenty of folks around to help, happy to see a new contributor be successful
00:11:38 <stickster> Done
00:11:46 <stickster> jjmcd: +10!
00:11:50 <stickster> OK, anything more on this?
00:12:05 <stickster> threethirty: When you're done, send email to Docs and Marketing and we'll pore over your work and help you polish it
00:12:16 <threethirty> can do
00:12:19 <stickster> threethirty: Don't be afraid to be creative, you'll see that in other announcements in the past
00:12:39 <stickster> Oh wait
00:12:46 <stickster> threethirty: I linked the wrong stuff, hang on
00:12:49 * stickster apologizes
00:12:56 <stickster> What he provided was the final announcement links, sorry threethirty
00:13:08 <threethirty> lol thats ok
00:13:55 <stickster> #undo
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00:14:06 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement -- example from F12 Alpha
00:14:13 <stickster> threethirty: I'm going to quickly find the F-11 and F-12 announcements and add them to the list of links at the bottom of that page
00:14:19 <stickster> oops, wrong line  :-)
00:14:26 <stickster> #action threethirty to draft release announcement based on link instructions
00:14:30 <stickster> There we go :-)
00:14:52 <stickster> threethirty: Your job is even easier now. Some of that example text can be copied to the new page
00:15:15 <stickster> threethirty: Anything else you could use, or are you good now?
00:15:24 <threethirty> stickster: i think i have it
00:15:28 <stickster> threethirty: Awesome.
00:15:30 <stickster> Moving on!
00:15:44 <stickster> #topic F13 Alpha release notes
00:15:52 <stickster> jjmcd: Sock it to me!
00:16:17 <jjmcd> joebebus has started some work on this, I have to admit, I haven't had a look at how far he has gotten
00:16:57 <jjmcd> Looking at the history he seems to have done a bunch
00:17:30 <stickster> jjmcd: link?
00:17:46 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Alpha_release_notes
00:18:28 <stickster> jjmcd: Thanks!
00:18:50 <stickster> That is looking pretty good
00:18:50 <jjmcd> Gotta get those new folks doing fun things
00:19:02 <stickster> Wish joebebus was here to thank
00:19:15 <stickster> What's our next action here? Who is going to do a final review and approval on this document?
00:19:15 <jjmcd> Yeah, I thought I mentioned the meeting to him
00:19:42 <jjmcd> We need it by the weekend, is that correct?
00:19:46 <stickster> Let me back up...
00:19:51 <stickster> Yeah, thanks jjmcd, I was about to go there :-)
00:19:59 <stickster> Yes, approx. same date as announcement
00:20:22 <jjmcd> I'll contact joebebus, review it, and perhaps send Mel the link to look over and get the marketing spin
00:20:35 <stickster> Fantabulous!
00:20:42 <stickster> #info joebebus has been doing a great job on the draft thus far
00:20:53 <jjmcd> :-)
00:21:04 <stickster> #action jjmcd to contact joebebus, review the wiki page, and notify Docs/Marketing to review/finalize
00:21:33 <stickster> jjmcd: OK, anything else you think we need to do on this item?
00:21:43 <jjmcd> No, I think we're good
00:21:55 <stickster> Moving on then
00:22:03 <stickster> jjmcd: I'm going to inject a related topic now which is....
00:22:07 <stickster> #topic F13 Beta release notes
00:22:30 <stickster> The Beta release is only a few weeks out, for which Docs team produces a full-on set of relnotes
00:22:44 <jjmcd> Pretty much waiting to hear how tfx is turning out
00:22:54 <stickster> jjmcd: Are there milestone points to let developers know what (if any) time they have left to put information in the beats?
00:23:03 <jjmcd> Yes
00:23:10 <stickster> AWESOME!
00:23:22 <jjmcd> I need to raise the volume there, tho
00:23:40 <stickster> I'd recommend a blog entry and something to devel-announce@
00:23:49 <stickster> as well as devel@ and other places you're considering
00:23:56 <stickster> Does that sound workable?
00:23:57 <jjmcd> Yeah, I did something to dev a while back, but nothing on planer
00:24:01 <jjmcd> Yep
00:24:11 <jjmcd> planet grrrr
00:24:22 <stickster> #action jjmcd to post to devel@, devel-announce@, and planet re: devs need to get their changes into beats *pronto*
00:24:55 <stickster> jjmcd: Wrt. transifex...
00:25:08 <stickster> It should be ready to go when the infrastructure freeze lifts after F13 Alpha release
00:25:16 <stickster> Around 2010-03-10 I believe
00:25:17 <jjmcd> good deal
00:25:48 <stickster> #info Transifex 0.7.4 should be ready to go when infrastructure freeze lifts after F13 Alpha
00:26:05 <stickster> jjmcd: I did see a message on the trans@ list that made me prick up my ears
00:26:15 <stickster> Someone was suggesting "Why don't we upgrade to 0.8?"
00:26:36 <jjmcd> I caught that, one of the few things I caught this past couple weeks
00:26:42 <stickster> I don't object to that -- *except* that it may mean we have to go back two steps, and *any* backing up at this point is going to be really hard on translators.
00:26:50 <stickster> They already have a reduced window.s
00:27:06 <jjmcd> Yeah, and they got a tough job anyway
00:27:25 <stickster> 0.7.4 fixes a ton of problems, and 0.8 may be better but it's not so much better that translators should have to wait yet again to have their first set of problems fixed
00:27:43 <stickster> ricky and others have worked really hard to get 0.7.4 working and I don't fancy undoing that work.
00:27:50 <stickster> or rather, not "undoing" but "adding to"
00:28:03 <jjmcd> Also on my to-do
00:28:30 <jjmcd> We are suggesting automated builds for all the docs during xlation.  I promised ke4qqq I'd write up something on how to do that
00:28:51 <stickster> Yeah, if we can find a place/method to do that I'm all for it.
00:29:00 <jjmcd> We did it for F12 but I had to use some non-fedora space.  ricky has made a spot for this
00:29:08 <stickster> cool!
00:29:11 <stickster> OK, anything else on this?
00:29:15 * stickster notes he has a hard stop at the hours
00:29:15 <jjmcd> nope
00:29:16 <stickster> *hour
00:29:20 <stickster> This meeting will conclude on time.
00:29:42 <stickster> #topic Desktop Help Summit
00:30:04 <stickster> What's the topic here? Is there work left for us to do wrt. the Summit?
00:30:21 <jjmcd> I don't see shaunm, but last meeting looks like he has most of what he needs, still questions about audio, tho
00:30:59 <stickster> jjmcd: What were those questions?
00:31:14 * stickster notes... it's much easier to run these meetings on topic if the agenda contains the specific issue or question to be answered
00:31:42 <jjmcd> No phone line, can someone with unlimited minutes call in.  He was going to talk to someone with a portable hotspot
00:32:10 <jjmcd> I don't think we can add much here tonite, why not move on
00:32:11 <stickster> jjmcd: Yes, there is a local call-in number in Chicago.
00:32:26 <stickster> Anyone with a cell phone can call into the conference line through that number. It's on http://talk.fedoraproject.org
00:32:37 <jjmcd> Yep, it's in my phone
00:32:44 <stickster> #info There is a local Chicago dialin for Fedora Talk on http://talk.fedoraproject.org
00:32:49 <stickster> Moving on
00:33:24 <stickster> #topic Release Notes
00:33:32 <stickster> Didn't we cover that?
00:33:33 <jjmcd> we just did that, basically
00:33:38 <stickster> My fault probably :-)(
00:33:42 <stickster> ha, double chin
00:34:04 <stickster> #info covered above
00:34:18 <stickster> Do we need a topic for new guides at every meeting?
00:34:39 <stickster> #topic New guides
00:34:41 <jjmcd> Well, Eric likes that, it always seems to have the same result, tho
00:34:55 <stickster> Then we should strike it. Keeping an item that no one cares about is silly.
00:35:08 <stickster> #info stickster motions to strike this if it's not generating any actual action items or work.
00:35:27 * jjmcd suspects it is as much an invite as anything else
00:35:48 <stickster> If anyone wants to propose a new guide now's your chance! (waiting 20 sec)
00:36:10 <stickster> Moving on
00:36:12 <stickster> #topic Guide status
00:36:36 <jjmcd> Still no guide owners have updated their schedules.
00:36:42 <stickster> I think I saw some lurkers here... rudi, Tsagadai, anyone -- have you checked schedules?
00:36:47 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_F13_schedule
00:36:57 <stickster> Not sure who else here owns a guide.
00:37:13 <rudi> stickster -- done :)
00:37:21 <rudi> I'll prod the other RHatters
00:37:25 <stickster> Disco!
00:37:28 <stickster> Nice work rudi, thanks
00:37:45 <stickster> rudi: I'd like to talk about one other thing if you have 5 min or so
00:37:50 <rudi> Sure
00:37:57 <stickster> What can we do to better attract people to help you guys with guides?
00:38:08 <Tsagadai> checked but little more than that
00:38:09 * stickster sets topic clock
00:38:49 * stickster suspects this is not untread ground, but would like to get a contemporary opinion
00:39:05 <rudi> Basically what we discussed a couple of weeks ago; guide owners need to become proactive in marking some easyfixes
00:39:32 <stickster> rudi: We're having that bugstomp coming up this weekend.
00:39:49 <rudi> Those of us inside the collective are running pretty ragged right now, so our eyes have been elsewhere for a few weeks now
00:39:50 <stickster> rudi: If maintainers mark any applicable BZs with EasyFix we may be able to wrangle some help
00:40:32 <rudi> Yeah, that would be awesome
00:40:42 * stickster notes that sparks did not follow up with his action item to start conversation about bugstomp this coming weekend
00:41:08 <stickster> I know he's sick now so unlikely to take care of that in the next day or two.
00:41:13 * stickster will take that on
00:41:24 <stickster> #action stickster to take up sparks action item for bug stomping conversation
00:41:34 <rudi> Because of the complications of docs where the RH and Fedora versions share code, the easiest ones for new writers to sink their teeth into are the exclusively Fedora docs
00:41:53 <stickster> rudi: OK, I'll see if we can't drum up help. It's coming up this weekend IIRC so I regret the short deadline on the EasyFix stuff
00:41:58 <rudi> In particular, the User Guide springs to mind as one that needs a lot of love
00:42:14 <stickster> Is that User Guide or Deployment Guide?
00:42:21 <rudi> I'll try to create some specific Easy fixes for the weekend
00:42:24 <rudi> User Guide
00:42:24 <jjmcd> rudi, won't that be hard until we see beta?
00:42:43 <jjmcd> Oh, you're looking at F12 fixes, sorry
00:43:03 <rudi> jjmcd -- in a way, but the UG has a lot of general content for new users that could do with some work
00:43:18 <stickster> Yup, and it's pretty accessible by everyone in terms of technical knowledge needed
00:43:19 <rudi> And "conceptual" stuff won't change
00:43:30 <stickster> OK, the 5-min clock just beeped at me
00:43:38 <rudi> And in its (relatively) simple XML structure
00:43:41 <jjmcd> Perhaps Emad78 would like to look into that
00:44:05 <Emad78> If I can get some direction I'd be glad to jump in head first.
00:44:08 <stickster> Emad78: Are you on the docs list?
00:44:26 <Emad78> I dont know. Ive been waiting for some approval I think.
00:44:38 <jjmcd> I can fix that if you applied
00:44:39 <stickster> Emad78: I think the list signup is open, there's no approval needed
00:44:58 <stickster> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs <-- open signup here for Docs list
00:45:04 <jjmcd> And I can help when the sun is on this side of the planet, rudi on the other
00:45:11 * stickster changes the topic to better reflect this conversation
00:45:20 <stickster> #topic Bug stomping session -- 2010-03-06
00:45:37 <stickster> #undo
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00:45:52 <rudi> stickster - when does the bugstomp start? (in Zulu time?)
00:45:58 <stickster> #topic Bug stomping session -- 2010-03-06
00:46:05 <stickster> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs <-- open signup here for Docs list
00:46:10 <stickster> #action stickster to take up sparks action item for bug stomping conversation
00:46:24 <stickster> rudi: Let me check the logs from last week.
00:46:46 <rudi> (I need deadlines! :) )
00:47:07 <stickster> Looks like 1500-2100 UTC right now
00:47:13 <stickster> That's not so good for you is it?
00:47:37 <stickster> Oh wait, it's not as bad as it seems
00:47:51 <stickster> rudi: That's... 6am to 12 noon BNE time, right?
00:47:57 <stickster> (sunday)
00:48:25 <stickster> Obviously not perfect. But at least the latter half isn't nightmarish
00:48:34 <rudi> Yep -- that's good
00:48:35 * stickster notes we can extend past 2100 UTC as needed
00:48:40 <stickster> That was just a jumping off place.
00:48:51 <stickster> OK
00:49:02 <rudi> I don't know whether I can be involved, but I can certainly have a couple of easyfixes set up by then
00:49:10 <stickster> #info Reminder -- bug stomping session to be held Saturday 2010-03-06, UTC 1500-2100
00:49:25 <rudi> Nothing like learning XML at the pointy end, Emad78 :)
00:49:29 <stickster> #action rudi to set up some EasyFixes, including in the User Guide where new folks might be able to lend a hand
00:49:35 <stickster> Thanks for your help rudi
00:49:38 <rudi> NP
00:49:44 <rudi> Sorry I've been so scarce lately :)
00:50:09 <stickster> rudi: I know how busy you must be :-)
00:50:15 <stickster> Thanks for taking some time with us :-)
00:50:21 * stickster is moving on
00:50:40 <stickster> #topic Bugzilla status
00:50:48 <stickster> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora%20Documentation&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED
00:50:55 <stickster> #topic All other business
00:51:09 <stickster> OK, we have 10 minutes left. Anything we haven't covered that we need to!
00:51:24 <jjmcd> I have one small thing
00:51:51 <jjmcd> If anyone hasn't had a chance to watch Max Spevack's awseome talk on governance, well worth the 45 minutes
00:51:54 <jjmcd> http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2010/fosdem10/low/Fedora_Governance.ogv
00:52:28 <jjmcd> Sonds like a dull subject but Max can make anything fun
00:52:32 * spevack blushes
00:52:52 <stickster> I have it on my Desktop and had literally no time to open it this week... sorry spevack :-(
00:53:05 <stickster> It keeps glaring at me with disapproving eyes
00:53:09 <stickster> Much like spevack actually
00:53:43 <spevack> stickster: i only look at you with puppy dog eyes
00:53:46 <stickster> jjmcd: Thanks for that link -- Max's speeches are always fun to watch
00:53:48 <stickster> awwww
00:53:54 <stickster> spevack: I prefer pony eyes
00:54:14 <stickster> http://img27.imageshack.us/i/ponies.jpg/
00:54:40 <stickster> OK, that's it from here at Fedora Moonbase Alpha then.
00:54:43 <jjmcd> That looks like mo's artwork
00:55:00 <stickster> jjmcd: rudi: Tsagadai: threethirty: Thanks for being here and helping out
00:55:18 <stickster> jjmcd: I think rbergeron did it, but I could be wrong
00:55:25 <stickster> That's a wrap folks!
00:55:28 <stickster> #endmeeting