18:30:10 <bcotton> #startmeeting docs
18:30:10 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 17 18:30:10 2022 UTC.
18:30:10 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:30:10 <zodbot> The chair is bcotton. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:30:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:30:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
18:30:20 <bcotton> #topic Roll call
18:30:30 <py0xc3[m]> .hello py0xc3
18:30:39 <bcotton> #chair darknao pboy pbokoc
18:30:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: bcotton darknao pbokoc pboy
18:30:42 <darknao> .hi
18:30:43 <pboy> .hi
18:30:51 <hankuoffroad[m]> .hello hankuoffroad
18:30:53 <pbokoc> Hello
18:31:26 <bcotton> hello everyone!
18:31:38 <py0xc3[m]> good evening
18:32:02 <bcotton> apologize in advance. i'm a bit out of my comfort zone because my laptop failed the other day :-)
18:32:06 <bcotton> #topic Announcements
18:32:27 <zodbot> py0xc3[m]: py0xc3 'Christopher Klooz' <py0xc3@my.mail.de>
18:32:27 <bcotton> #info We use a GitLab board to track work
18:32:30 <zodbot> darknao: darknao 'Francois Andrieu' <darknao@drkn.ninja>
18:32:33 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
18:32:36 <zodbot> hankuoffroad[m]: hankuoffroad 'None' <allegrovelo@gmail.com>
18:32:39 <bcotton> #link https://gitlab.com/groups/fedora/docs/-/boards
18:33:02 <bcotton> #topic Previous action items
18:33:29 <bcotton> #info pboy and py0xc3[m] prepare a proposal to integrate the new docs into the team pages.
18:34:08 <pboy> not done yet unfortunately
18:34:33 <bcotton> #action pboy and py0xc3[m] to prepare a proposal to integrate the new docs into the team pages.
18:35:49 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: if you want, you can let me know what/how to change the MR. Then I can do that.
18:36:01 <hankuoffroad[m]> bcotton: A new board looks good
18:36:56 <py0xc3[m]> hankuoffroad[m]: I could already close a lot but the two boards still contain much. There is also the open MR list next to the issue dashboard: https://gitlab.com/groups/fedora/docs/-/merge_requests
18:37:04 <bcotton> #topic GitLab followup
18:37:12 <pboy> py0xc3[m] I think, the next step is to modify the current structure to the new inended one and move you text to the according locations
18:37:15 <bcotton> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/boards/GitLab%20migration
18:37:24 <pboy> So, is is not just an MR
18:37:59 <bcotton> I saw that darknao is preparing to move docs-fp-o
18:38:01 <darknao> I've moved the master repository to gitlab: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/docs-fp-o
18:38:12 <darknao> right :)
18:38:54 <darknao> it's not used by the build pipeline yet, but the PR is on its way
18:39:36 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: I know. I would say that the issue in general should be subordinated to your recent announcement, which might be clarified before. But I can do the work on my MR, and also support in the other MR.
18:40:02 <bcotton> so that leaves quick-docs, which should really have a hackfest first, and package-maintainer-docs as the main ones, which is good
18:40:45 <pboy> py0xc3[m] Probably we should talk about it on discussion?
18:41:08 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Ok.
18:41:10 <bcotton> are there any major issues we need to discuss or can we move to the next topic?
18:41:26 <darknao> nothing on my side
18:43:05 <bcotton> #topic Integrating existing text to new structure of Team Page
18:43:09 <bcotton> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/im-afraid-im-going-to-have-to-give-up/41511
18:43:33 <bcotton> pboy, it wasn't clear to what specifically isn't working for you
18:44:30 <pboy> It's just too complicated, too time consuming for me (!). It may be much easier for everyone else.
18:44:51 <pboy> It's blowing my time budget. Unfortunately.
18:45:56 <bcotton> i guess i'm not clear on what "it" is
18:46:42 <pboy> "It" is all the effort to manage and navigate the interface. I would need something much easier and quicker to get done.
18:47:13 <bcotton> manage and navigate the interface to do what, though?
18:48:05 <pboy> E.G. just to have a look on the preview of our new team page structure and content so far.
18:48:24 <pboy> I tried over an hour and didn't get one word in.  :-)
18:48:32 <pboy> It's my problem!
18:48:43 <darknao> maybe we could do some screen sharing session if that help, to help you go through the interface and see where the pain points are?
18:49:57 <pboy> darknoa: many thanks. My problem is: I know it now, but when I want to do it next time, which maybe 3 or 4 weeks later, then ....
18:51:03 <py0xc3[m]> pboy: Maybe it makes sense to create another HowTo for permanent contributors / advanced changes?
18:51:07 <darknao> maybe we can document something to make it easier next time, py0xc3[m] mentioned a how-to I think
18:51:15 <py0xc3[m]> I could imagine that this issue will affect other's in future as well
18:51:22 <darknao> ^this
18:51:29 <pboy> I can effectivly work with our pagure server repo. We have a stg branch a main branch, I just push and pull back and forth.
18:51:51 <pboy> 4 commands, everything fine.
18:52:25 <darknao> if you are used to use git commands, then it should be the same with gitlab, no?
18:53:20 <pboy> darknao at the moment we have no permanent stg branch, so I have to remember the steps how to accees it - just as an example.
18:54:25 <pboy> To be clear: it is my problem, I don't want to complain about anyone or anything.
18:54:46 <darknao> we can create a permanent stg branch if that's needed
18:55:02 <bcotton> yeah, but if it's preventing you from making contributions, we should fix it somehow
18:56:09 <pboy> Simplified procedures would help. Currently, I've been working on getting to grips with GitLab for longer than I've been writing text.
18:56:37 <pboy> But I see me not as a git workeer, but as a text writer.
18:59:56 <pboy> And to be clear: I would like to contribute as I did until now. It's not an excuse for retreating.  But as it is, it is impossible for me.
19:00:18 <bcotton> understandable
19:01:39 <bcotton> I think if you can give more details about what you're trying to accomplish, it will be easier to help. for example, if the issue is that you can't preview the text, my suggestion would be to use the local scripts (build.sh, preview.sh) instead of gitlab
19:02:13 <bcotton> i've also lost track of what changes to the team page you're working on
19:02:35 <bcotton> but that's not something we need to handle in the meeting. that can be discussion threads or chat messages
19:03:19 <pboy> About the changes: A new navigation menue an a new Arrangement of the content (and of course, new content)
19:03:57 <pboy> We can discuss that better at discussion, yes.
19:04:35 <darknao> and feel free to ask for help or guidance when needed in the #fedora-docs room if you need more reactive help than on discussion
19:05:15 <pboy> #fedora-docs room  you mean matrix?
19:05:30 <darknao> either IRC or matrix, yes
19:05:40 <pboy> Thans
19:05:55 <pboy> Thans -> Thanks
19:07:22 <bcotton> #topic Open floor
19:07:40 <bcotton> Okay, there was nothing else on the agenda. anyone have other topics for today?
19:07:51 <darknao> I think there was a topic about the howTo?
19:08:36 <bcotton> py0xc3: did you have something about the howto for today?
19:09:13 <darknao> I've added the link on staging: https://docs.stg.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/latest/
19:09:28 <py0xc3[m]> No.
19:09:56 <darknao> it only shows up when visiting gitlab component, and doesn't link to the right howTo page since the right one is not published yet
19:10:02 <py0xc3[m]> The HowTo is more or less done if no one found areas of improvement
19:10:11 <pboy> darknao Many thanks,
19:10:27 <py0xc3[m]> Yes. The HowTo is still only an MR.
19:10:41 <pboy> Maybe , we should have something similiar for the team page?
19:10:44 <py0xc3[m]> We wanted to wait for the new structures.
19:11:30 <pboy> Yes, and I'm the cause for the waiting because of my issues with the interface.
19:11:30 <darknao> maybe we can publish it on staging? so it's easier to review?
19:11:59 <pboy> And I'm definitely not fine with that
19:12:23 <pboy> darknao: I mean the waiting, not staging ! :-)
19:13:17 <py0xc3[m]> Maybe we should publish it for now with the old structure? And then change it together with the other pages?
19:13:26 <darknao> preview of this howTo is here in case you don't have it: https://fedora.gitlab.io/-/docs/community-tools/documentation-contributors-guide/-/jobs/2840451446/artifacts/public/fedora-docs/contributing/7step-howto.html
19:13:30 <pboy> For me a permanent staging would be easier. But I don't know how much work it is.
19:13:34 <py0xc3[m]> An MR can be rebased so that it gets the changes that happened since
19:15:04 <pboy> py0xc3[m] We can do that. But we want to promote it, so we need a permanent link as soon as possible.
19:15:22 <darknao> pboy: staging is easy to set up, we already have a stg branch on this repo
19:15:32 <darknao> we just need to update the master repo to use it
19:16:32 <pboy> darknao then that could be a first step to make it easier (at least for me, sorry about my Extra wishes)
19:18:00 <darknao> no it's fine, assuming I got it right, it's literally 2 minutes for me to get it done
19:18:20 <pboy> OK. thanks a lot
19:19:10 <darknao> just do your changes on the stg branch, and I'll handle everything else
19:19:31 <pboy> OK. thanks
19:20:25 <darknao> about the howTo: it seems fine to me, the only thing I would request is changing the name (or the file name at least) to mention gitlab
19:21:06 <darknao> I assume we will get other howTos at some point for others git forge, unless you want to do everything on the same page?
19:21:38 <py0xc3[m]> darknao: I can change that. So to make clear in the beginning that this is only for GitLab?
19:21:46 <pboy> Well, we need a naming convention! I think.
19:22:05 <hankuoffroad[m]> py0xc3: can we shorten the sub heading?
19:22:05 <pboy> I started with that in the new structure.
19:22:05 <darknao> it's just the naming convention in case we have another page for Github for instance
19:22:49 <darknao> by the way, the howTo configuration is located in the Antora playbook here: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/docs-fp-o/-/blob/stg/site.yml#L8
19:23:23 <darknao> you can edit the link text, and the adoc you want to link to there
19:23:42 <hankuoffroad[m]> Okay, I'll suggest that
19:23:42 <pboy> Looks interesting
19:23:42 <darknao> and add others howTo for pagure or github when needed
19:24:11 <py0xc3[m]> Yes we can change the subheading. Maybe we can put this into the discussion of the MR: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/community-tools/documentation-contributors-guide/-/merge_requests/7
19:25:13 <pboy> py0xc3[m] I would suggest to shorten the heading and to add an abstract. 3 sentences.
19:26:13 <pboy> But that is finetuning. It's fine the way it is.
19:27:37 <py0xc3[m]> Concerning making clear it is for GitLab: Am I right that users will only see this HowTo in GitLab repos?
19:28:27 <py0xc3[m]> The issue I see at the moment is that many will be confused because they do not know if this HowTo applies for the page they want to change (they simply dont know if it is GitLab; especially in advance when they are just on the Docs page itself)
19:29:18 <py0xc3[m]> But maybe we can put this discussion in the GitLab MR, then I have the related comments comprehensibly summed up to implement them :) Also, our time is near the end
19:29:49 <bcotton> sounds good :-)
19:29:51 <bcotton> thanks everyone!
19:30:02 <darknao> py0xc3[m]: yes, this howTo will only be for Gitlab and only show up on the documentation if the component is using gitlab
19:31:05 <bcotton> #endmeeting