18:31:01 <darknao> #startmeeting docs
18:31:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct  5 18:31:01 2022 UTC.
18:31:01 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:31:01 <zodbot> The chair is darknao. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
18:31:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:31:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
18:31:07 <darknao> #topic Roll call
18:32:26 <pboy> .hi
18:32:27 <zodbot> pboy: pboy 'Peter Boy' <pboy@uni-bremen.de>
18:32:37 <darknao> hey o/
18:32:38 <pboy> sorry, nearly missed the date. :-)
18:35:40 <darknao> ok let's get started
18:35:46 <darknao> #topic Agenda
18:35:53 <darknao> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/docs-meeting-agenda-2022-10-05/42936
18:35:54 <darknao> #info Announcements
18:35:56 <darknao> #info Action item followup
18:35:58 <darknao> #info Next meeting chair
18:36:00 <darknao> #info ankursinha’s improvements for the preview.sh/build.sh
18:36:02 <darknao> #info Formalize & allocate the task to create new branches for new releases
18:36:04 <darknao> #info Maintenance strategy of the Workstation & Spins User Guide
18:36:08 <darknao> #topic Announcements
18:36:13 <darknao> #info F37 Final freeze is in effect!
18:36:15 <darknao> #info We use GitLab to track work: https://gitlab.com/groups/fedora/docs/-/boards
18:36:52 <darknao> any other announements?
18:37:04 <darknao> announcements*
18:37:09 <pboy> nope
18:37:18 <darknao> alrigth
18:37:31 <darknao> #topic Action item followup
18:37:37 <darknao> there was none
18:37:51 <darknao> so next topic
18:38:54 <darknao> seems like we are only the two of us, so that may be a short meeting
18:38:59 <darknao> #info Next meeting chair
18:39:17 <pboy> Yeah, indeed.
18:39:49 <darknao> I got your mail, and I think this should be a good idea to discuss this here
18:40:03 <pboy> That's OK, yes.
18:40:37 <pboy> My concern was to leave you alone with the task.
18:40:56 <darknao> since bcotton left, I assumed the role of the meeting chair, and that is totally fine for me
18:41:02 <py0xc3[m]> sorry
18:41:03 <py0xc3[m]> I'm late
18:41:06 <py0xc3[m]> .hello
18:41:06 <zodbot> py0xc3[m]: (hello <an alias, 1 argument>) -- Alias for "hellomynameis $1".
18:41:20 <py0xc3[m]> .hello py0xc3
18:41:21 <darknao> now that being said, I don't mind if from time to time, someone else want to take the chair too
18:41:21 <zodbot> py0xc3[m]: py0xc3 'Christopher Klooz' <py0xc3@my.mail.de>
18:41:30 <pboy> hi py0xc3[m]
18:41:32 <darknao> hi py0xc3[m]
18:41:38 <darknao> we are just getting started
18:42:23 <pboy> darknao I'm fine with that!
18:42:47 <pboy> I already have the server WG, and that is a lot of work.
18:43:06 <pboy> I'm a kind of permanent chair, over there
18:43:35 <hankuoffroad[m]> .hello hankuoffroad
18:43:36 <zodbot> hankuoffroad[m]: hankuoffroad 'None' <allegrovelo@gmail.com>
18:43:39 <darknao> ok, then I think we can move on
18:43:51 <pboy> yep
18:44:01 <darknao> if at some point I feel the need to be replaced, I'll bring back this topic
18:44:12 <pboy> OK!
18:44:13 <darknao> hey hankuoffroad[m]
18:44:33 <hankuoffroad[m]> soz i'm late. HI all
18:44:46 <darknao> #topic ankursinha’s improvements for the preview.sh/build.sh
18:44:57 <darknao> :q
18:45:00 <py0xc3[m]> Hi hankuoffroad
18:45:17 <darknao> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/improved-build-script-for-doc-repos-with-change-detection/40920/11
18:45:29 <darknao> #link https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/templates/fedora-docs-template/-/merge_requests/4
18:46:15 <darknao> the script looks fine to me, there is one last open discussion regarding the update function
18:46:50 <darknao> but I think it can be adressed later if needed. I'm ok to merge it right now.
18:47:52 <darknao> regarding the RPM idea, I like it, but unfortunately, I don't think it fit our need
18:48:18 <pboy> I'm on the outside on this matter. But I would like to see this become part of our "local Fedora authoring environment".
18:48:43 <darknao> the RPM is only targetting Fedora, and not everyone is using it. Some are using Mac or just other Linux distribution
18:49:10 <pboy> darknao +1!
18:50:31 <py0xc3[m]> I don't know how far and if people without Fedora write its documentation. So I cannot argue about that. But I'm fine with both solutions put forward by Ankur.
18:51:06 <pboy> Well, I'm writing a lot of Fedora documentation - with a Mac currently
18:51:18 <darknao> and now that there is an integrated update function in ankursinha's script, that should be enough on its own, and that seems to work no matter your distrib
18:51:36 <darknao> pboy: and did you try the new script?
18:51:50 <pboy> unfortunately not yet.
18:52:10 <pboy> struggle with how to install it. So busy with other tasks.
18:52:38 <pboy> but is sounds very promising
18:52:38 <darknao> can you give it shot when you can? I think it needs some Mac user testing
18:52:53 <pboy> yes, it is on the todo list.
18:53:14 <py0xc3[m]> Well, if it is unsure, keeping as much compatibility as possible is always good. And I think both solutions are sufficiently easy to implement
18:53:21 <pboy> But may be im' too busy until RC1
18:53:31 <darknao> #action pboy to test run the new builder script on Mac
18:54:53 <darknao> I'll merge the MR sometime this week, I think it's good enough to at least be integrated in the template repository
18:55:51 <pboy> darknao much appreciated
18:55:52 <darknao> but we might hold on a bit before deploying it on other repositories
18:56:26 <pboy> +1 a bit wider testing is good
18:56:39 <darknao> ok, next topic is...
18:56:47 <darknao> #topic Formalize & allocate the task to create new branches for new releases
18:57:01 <darknao> #link https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-docs-tasks.html
18:57:12 <darknao> #link https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/release-notes/issue/883
18:57:46 <darknao> So I think the release notes part was solved last week
18:58:39 <pboy> Yes bockoc will take care about it
18:58:44 <darknao> but we still need to do the branching for the other repositories, right?
18:59:44 <pboy> It depends. We want to switch to the new structure
18:59:49 <darknao> actually, seems like it was already taken care of
19:00:06 <pboy> What happened?
19:00:24 <py0xc3[m]> darknao: Yes
19:00:28 <darknao> i mean, the f37 branch has been created
19:00:31 <py0xc3[m]> I already created branches
19:00:34 <darknao> good
19:00:34 <py0xc3[m]> on GitLab
19:00:52 <darknao> I see you created it with a capital F this time
19:00:59 <py0xc3[m]> But we should ensure that this does not become forgotten again. Maybe at least create a ticket or so at each release for the next one
19:01:23 <py0xc3[m]> If one is assigned, one has it on the GitLab to do list - which does not mean that this person has to implement it. But then we avoid this unlikely issue again
19:01:24 <darknao> that will most likely needs to be renamed
19:01:41 <py0xc3[m]> Ahhh, yeah, didn't check that, sorry
19:01:50 <pboy> What about our plan about the variant-orientated structure?
19:02:44 <pboy> Where does the new text(s) go?
19:03:12 <darknao> is the new structure going to be ready for f37 release?
19:03:34 <pboy> We have a first cut.
19:03:53 <pboy> And we have 20 days to complete. That is doable.
19:05:02 <darknao> ok, so in order to no go too much off topic, I'll add another topic dedicated to the new structure after this one
19:05:21 <pboy> OK
19:05:43 <darknao> right now, the goal was to make sure we do everything we need to do before each release
19:06:29 <darknao> for that, we have a schedule https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-docs-tasks.html that is available for the next 2 releases
19:06:53 <darknao> well, actually there is much more than the next 2 ones
19:07:27 <darknao> anyway, we should use that to create the required tickets on gitlab so we don't forget anything
19:07:50 <pboy> good idea
19:08:13 <darknao> We should also use the Milestones feature on Gitlab for that
19:08:15 <py0xc3[m]> So create a new one at GitLab after each release for the consequent one?
19:08:32 <py0xc3[m]> Sounds good. didn't think on that
19:09:02 <darknao> There is a bunch of milestones already created and available to all Fedora namespace
19:09:26 <darknao> at least until f38
19:09:37 <darknao> but that should be a good start
19:09:43 <pboy> that's not sooo far away :-)
19:10:02 <py0xc3[m]> +1
19:10:47 <darknao> someone want to take the action to create some tickets?
19:10:58 <py0xc3[m]> I can do.
19:11:09 <py0xc3[m]> I have not used milestones on gitlab before, but I will find out :)
19:12:06 <darknao> #action py0xc3 to create tickets on Gitlab to track the required tasks for next release
19:12:51 <darknao> so to help you out, there is no need to replicate the entire schedule, but there is a few tasks that are important
19:13:18 <darknao> the one regarding branch for release note, indeed
19:14:07 <darknao> and Add new release docs to front page
19:14:33 <darknao> this one is for the release day
19:15:53 <darknao> ok, if nothing else, we can proceed with the next topic
19:16:39 <darknao> #topic updates on the new variant-orientated structure
19:17:01 <darknao> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/how-to-proceed-with-renewed-variant-oriented-docs/42450
19:17:49 <pboy> We are late no, according to the plan. But is is still doable I thjink
19:18:01 <pboy> sorry, the typos
19:18:30 <pboy> I would like to have a plan, where to upload the new text.
19:18:47 <pboy> I think, either f37 or something like stg.
19:18:55 <darknao> the Fedora Docs home repository has a stg branch now, that is set up on the staging environment
19:19:22 <pboy> OK, didn't notice that. Let me have a look
19:19:31 <darknao> you can use that one if you want to test things before going on the main site
19:19:57 <pboy> Yes, that is what i would like to have.
19:20:43 <darknao> ok do you need anything else?
19:20:53 <pboy> I lok at https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/pages but don't see a stg?
19:21:58 <darknao> this one is for the home page
19:22:19 <pboy> Correction. I see that's for the "boxes"
19:22:27 <darknao> I was talking about this one: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/fedora-linux-documentation/release-docs-home/-/tree/stg
19:22:35 <pboy> But we need a preview here as well, I think
19:22:48 <darknao> ok, I can do that too
19:23:09 <pboy> Yes, I see the stg now!
19:23:40 <darknao> and done: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/pages/-/tree/stg
19:24:02 <pboy> So I'll upload a new text until next Monday.
19:24:48 <pboy> What do you think about this "boxes"  https://pboy.fedorapeople.org/fedora/fedora-docs-4.html
19:25:25 <pboy> As the new arrangement
19:26:06 <py0xc3[m]> Hmmm... I would keep it consistent. Kinoite and Silverblue are not variants of Workstation I guess. That can be confusing
19:26:28 <py0xc3[m]> So its unofficial editions. To keep them consistent with all other Fedora pages.
19:26:42 <pboy> OK, then what are they?
19:27:15 <py0xc3[m]> Unofficial editions
19:27:20 <pboy> Are these Desktop variants?
19:27:41 <py0xc3[m]> Plus coreOS, which is also unofficial edition
19:27:45 <pboy> Unofficial Editions on an official page is a bit strange, or ?
19:27:47 <py0xc3[m]> silverblue and kinoite, yes
19:28:12 <pboy> CoreOS will be an edition with F37, as far as I know
19:28:15 <py0xc3[m]> well, that is the delaration of the two. With editions, spins and labs, I would not add variants, which is not use at other palces
19:28:36 <pboy> That's a good point!
19:28:36 <py0xc3[m]> Can be, I'm not in CoreOS. Just know its current status
19:28:42 <py0xc3[m]> Alternatively, immuatable desktops?
19:28:58 <py0xc3[m]> So as name for the category? "Immutable desktop" or "immutable desktop editions" ?
19:29:07 <pboy> immutable is a bit too technically, isn't it?
19:29:16 <walters> FWIW I'm aiming to completely remove the use of the term "immutable", particularly with https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/OstreeNativeContainerStable
19:29:32 <walters> (see https://blog.verbum.org/2020/08/22/immutable-%E2%86%92-reprovisionable-anti-hysteresis/ for prior discussion)
19:29:35 <py0xc3[m]> Well, it the description of the box makes the point: who is interested, might open it :)
19:29:46 <pboy> walters Do you have inidea for a suirtable naming here?
19:30:00 <py0xc3[m]> Ah, Intersting.
19:30:09 <walters> The blog there proposes several alternative terms
19:30:53 <pboy> Thanks, I'll have a look.
19:31:19 <pboy> What's your preference for that box?
19:31:58 <pboy> It should not be too technically
19:33:06 <darknao> alright we are out of time
19:33:35 <py0xc3[m]> The labs description notes the labs are spins. Maybe just call it "Fedora Labs" and make the other point in the description? "Fedora Labs tailored for special use cases, based on Fedora Workstation and Spins"?
19:33:43 <darknao> sorry py0xc3[m] we have to skip your topic for the second time, It'll be the first one in the next meeting
19:33:44 <py0xc3[m]> Ah, yeah,
19:34:13 <darknao> Thank you everyone
19:34:14 <py0xc3[m]> No problem. Ain't time critical. I will not be able to do much at the workstation spins guide this week anyway
19:34:17 <pboy> After all, we are not short of topics.
19:34:23 <darknao> #endmeeting