18:30:36 #startmeeting docs 18:30:36 Meeting started Wed Sep 6 18:30:36 2023 UTC. 18:30:36 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 18:30:36 The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 18:30:36 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:30:36 The meeting name has been set to 'docs' 18:30:52 The object today is to provide an opportunity to discuss some current issues directly quasi virtually vis-a-vis 18:31:02 Therefore 18:31:13 #topic Roll call 18:31:25 Please, everybody who is lurking, say either .hello2 or .hello 18:32:36 .hello hkl 18:32:36 hkl: Sorry, but user 'hkl' does not exist 18:32:52 .hi hkl 18:32:53 hkl: Sorry, but user 'hkl' does not exist 18:33:09 .hello2 18:33:10 hkl: Sorry, but user 'hkl' does not exist 18:33:23 cognitive load is high 18:33:47 Yes, zodbot is a bit picky today. 18:34:20 hkl = hank for your reference. I saw the agenda, so I jumped in 18:34:47 never used iRC before 18:37:07 Hi Hank. I guessed that. You used it before elsewher, Matrix I think. 18:38:02 libera web client is simple. I struglled with matrix for weeks last year 18:39:32 I#m still struggeling with Matrix, specifically the encryption setup. 18:39:47 But I make progress with Matrix, too. 18:40:59 And, by the way, hkl is much easier to type then hankuoffroad :-) 18:41:11 that's true 18:41:30 Obviously, we are the only 2 again. 18:41:59 If I have a look at my open todo items, we have a lot to discuss. 18:42:11 let's do it 18:42:52 OK, yes. An alternative may be to make an appointment tomorrow, so I can work on my backlog. 18:43:23 But let's start, and we can postpone topics which i need to prepare for. 18:43:42 I think, I swith to Open Floor? 18:44:12 #topic 5. Open floor 18:44:23 So, let's start. 18:45:20 I suppose, the most urgent item is the workshop? 18:46:28 yes, I wanted to have a quick check on technology, topics and what to discuss. Is Thursday 14 okay for you? 18:47:57 https://calendar.fedoraproject.org/docs/2023/9/11/#m10574 18:48:26 I have a appopintment in the morning and will be back at 13:00 CEST, it is 11:00 UTC, isn't it? 18:48:45 12 UTC 18:49:22 2 pm in German time? 18:50:21 Yeah, the difference is 2 hours currently. 18:51:22 Yes I just checked. It is 14:00 German time, That's perfect for me! 18:51:54 as you suggested, we need to check if the video connection works. Also, if the topic can be reviewed with you 18:52:16 do you have any questions? 18:52:50 No questions at the moment, because I have to read my backlog first, unfortunately. 18:53:12 I was incredibly buse the last weeks - again. 18:53:45 But now all our server issues at work are resolved, and I hope it keeps that way. 18:53:58 i have been trying to declutter things I committed, so I can deliver quality results 18:54:31 Good to hear your work issues are under control. 18:54:54 Good, I suppose I can find the details in your mails, Matrix posts and discussion? 18:55:14 hkl indeed, it was a rough time. 18:56:03 I'm the responsible lead and had a lot of discussions with other department menbers and University administration 18:56:09 yes, the link above has Jitsi link and you can check discussion. Just so you know for my effort to declutter, I deactivated matrix account. I'll use libera for chat 18:57:05 OK! I'm surprised. Everyone else seems to change to Matrix. 18:58:09 Libera is perfectly OK for me. I like the spartan, sgraifhtforward UI 18:58:12 matrix caused me super high cognotive overload. I'll find my way to contribute to Docs without matrix and discussion 18:58:48 good to know. I'll try spartan 18:59:38 So I can ping you on IRC in the afternoon / evening after working hours? 19:00:14 yes, that's fine for me to work on Docs topics 19:01:29 For tomorrow afternoon I have "working on backlog" on my plan. So it maybe, I have a question or a comment. 19:02:00 but how about new people in the future if they are recommended to connect with Matrix? 19:02:39 i guess infra team is working on a fix for bridge? 19:04:15 As far as I know they are trying hard. But the biggest issue / deferrence seems to be on the Matrix side 19:05:56 Regarding the future action, let's co it step by step. I suggest, we concentrate on the workshop. Based on that experience we can decide about how to move forward. 19:07:32 so far 14 people responded to 'when-is-best' scheduler 19:08:02 That are many! Much more as I expected! 19:08:31 your presence in Flock really helped reach out many people. so I extended that in the Magazine. 19:09:16 There are people with various experience. One pro technical writer also expressed an interest. 19:09:36 I'm glad to hear that. Then all the work was worth it. 19:10:11 The differences may make it a little difficult. 19:10:34 We should prepare for it. 19:10:36 my idea is whatever tool or experience level, there is a job to do 19:11:03 for experienced people, release note may be the right challenge? 19:11:49 I think the release notes will be largely automated. 19:12:30 UX/design is also an important area to make Docs page appealing. 19:12:34 However, they will always need a certain amount of manual rework. 19:13:35 UX design, yes, we have a lot of minor issues, the abstract, the space between paragraphs and various others. 19:13:37 of course, I understood the basics behind release note 19:14:01 But that is a CSS thing, not so much a technical writing 19:14:46 that's a big impact thing. one change can affect entire Docs pages 19:15:30 Yeah, you need a good overview of the Docs CSS structure. It's a bit complicated. 19:16:03 And for an experience technical writer we have a lot to do on QD, too. 19:16:18 Some atricles are really complex, but outdated. 19:16:35 I saw those when I worked on the categories and tags. 19:16:38 right, quick docs need continuous care and write-up 19:17:07 that's massive work. big thanks to your effort 19:17:21 Yes, it was a lot. 19:17:51 And to make the best of it, I would like to concentrate our efforts on QD vor now. 19:18:06 That is, writing tasks to improve the info. 19:19:11 Agree, Quick Docs is most read and used piece of Fedora user documentation. 19:19:56 what I mean is new people may come with various interest and expertise 19:21:15 Yes, if some people have a special interest on other parts, that's OK, of course. And we should try to support it. 19:21:38 But we should primarly suggest QD. 19:22:31 agree on that 19:22:33 And according to my experience, most people are eager to try something and to gather experience, how it works. The kind of docs is less important 19:22:52 in the first step. 19:24:26 writing workshop should be able to help with working process and ease learning curve 19:25:51 Yeah, I expect I'll come up with ideas, questions and suggestions when I've read all the backlog items. 19:25:53 i got an impression that people are tasked with initial PRs and didn't see next steps and quit 19:27:04 Maybe, often is is not helpful if none of us can pick up an PR in a short time range, I think. 19:27:41 I suppose that's very demotivating. 19:27:59 i mean some people are self-starters, the other require onboarding and regular checkin 19:29:25 In my experience, establishing regular communication is tremendously important. Very few people are "lone warriors" in the long run. 19:30:04 That's why I think IRC meetings are important. 19:30:15 that's the point. writing (and contributions) should be collaborative effort 19:31:36 Yes, that's why I would like to keep the weekly meeting at least as an offer or even open "office hour". 19:32:36 And I hope that with the virtual workshops we will attract more participants. 19:33:07 it should help definitely 19:33:15 A continuous item could be questions between workshop dates. 19:34:09 will share timetable next week before the cloing with you 19:34:21 But I think we have to clear the channel. Not that we block anyone. Program Office hour was after us. 19:34:36 yes bye 19:34:40 Let's continue tomorrow on IRC! 19:34:47 By bye 19:34:57 #endmeeting