18:30:33 #startmeeting docs 18:30:33 Meeting started Wed Sep 20 18:30:33 2023 UTC. 18:30:33 This meeting is logged and archived in a public location. 18:30:33 The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions. 18:30:33 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:30:33 The meeting name has been set to 'docs' 18:30:42 The object today is to provide an opportunity to discuss some current issues directly, quasi virtually vis-a-vis 18:30:52 Therefore, let's see who is here. 18:31:00 #topic Roll call 18:31:05 hello 18:31:10 Please, everybody who is lurking, say either ".hello2" or ".hello " 18:31:23 .hello hkl 18:31:24 hkl: Sorry, but user 'hkl' does not exist 18:31:36 hello lab0 18:32:01 hi hkl 18:32:11 Zodbot is a bit bitchy again today 18:32:14 Some people may have been confused between IRC and Matrix. 18:32:39 maybe, yes 18:32:42 we need to decide it 18:33:23 Yes, "officially" it's still IRC, as long as we have no Matrix zodbot 18:34:02 .hello copperi 18:34:06 copperi: copperi 'Jan Kuparinen' 18:34:24 matrix native bot is in development, and DEI team ran the matrix meeting with it. 18:34:26 Hi copperi! 18:34:48 hello copperi 18:34:59 Hi 18:38:14 Oh, I just came into the wrong window, sorry. Here again 18:38:32 Well, what should we discuss? There are some current topics: 18:38:44 1. Writing together virtually 18:39:02 2. What’s the next step in improving Quick Docs? 18:39:19 3. Administrating and maintaining Docs GitLab repos 18:39:32 Anything else? 18:39:41 nope from me 18:40:43 hkl OK 18:43:34 About the scheduling and invite for writing workshop, we are looking at next week 25 or 28 Sep. https://whenisgood.net/qrnxqwp 18:44:16 could Peter and I spare some time after the meeting? 18:44:37 Monday would be OK for me, too. 18:44:47 Yes, we can. 18:45:21 Obviously, there is nothing specifically to discuss. 18:45:22 But Monday may be too short notice for attendeess. 18:46:20 hkl Agreed. And on Thursday 28 we have mir attendees so far, if I read the numbers corectly 18:46:31 mir -> more 18:47:04 yes, Thursday 28 Sep works for me, too 18:47:50 And if you publish / announce that tomorrow, that's a 1 week ahead. 18:47:57 I think, that's OK 18:48:07 that sounds reasonable 18:48:08 Because we already discussed that a lot 18:48:58 I think, I switch to Open Floor for formal reasons. 18:49:05 yes 18:49:14 #topic Open floor 18:49:35 .hello klavier 18:49:36 hkl: klavier 'Test Lab' 18:49:47 So we can talk. And I would like to keep the meeting open. 18:50:03 about topic 2 and 3? 18:50:48 Well, anything that is interesting. 18:50:59 I see more people show interest in Docs and they appear on matrix chat and send PR on Pagure and GitLab 18:51:19 we just need to hold 'hands' 18:51:29 :-) 18:51:47 Yes, we should keep in contact 18:52:15 This is the official channel we announced everywhere 18:52:21 so they don't feel lone writers. I enjoyed rewriting some articles in cafe, but some coaching will help in the long run. 18:52:45 So I would keep it open, ready to answer question or whatever. 18:53:06 Until we change our official channel. 18:53:46 official channel means IRC vs Matrix? 18:54:07 Yes, officially it is IRC for meetings and decisions. 18:54:37 i used matrix throughout until August 18:54:43 Because we have zodbot to log and document. 18:55:24 Yes, but I'm struggeling with all these different channels. It costs a lot of time. 18:55:29 I'm just reiterating a latest info from Justin - 18:55:31 You can follow 18:55:32 zodbot development for progress on the new bots. The DEI Team hosted a meeting last week using the Matrix-native Meetbot, but it is definitely still in an early-testing phase. It is not quite ready for prime-time yet, but it is very close. 18:55:34 If you want to have early access or test it out, the bot testing room is 18:55:35 Fedora Zodbot. You can even run a test meeting with !startmeeting and !endmeeting in that room to give it a go. 18:56:11 IRC is an additional channel for me. 18:56:43 New people hang out in Matrix/Element, not IRC 18:57:09 Maybe, we should give Matrix zodbot a try as a kind of aftermath for the writing workshop? 18:57:48 Yes, new pewople do. "old" people often prefer IRC because of its effetivness. 18:57:54 We can try weekly meeting, but not for workshop 18:58:25 i do appreciate tools you are used to do not need to change. 18:59:35 Yes, we could give it a try. I hope, the bridge will be working again, soon. 18:59:48 Would make a transition easier. 19:00:37 yes 19:01:04 could we talk about Quick Docs and GitLab stuff? 19:01:11 Yes! 19:01:48 We need more interest from exprienced reviewers. 19:02:06 Indeed. 19:02:37 One idea is, to select one article and to ask specifically on devel list. 19:02:55 technical review on content is like code review. if you build healthy relationship, you learn it quicker and newbies fell rewarded and stays on. 19:02:57 I did that some time ago and got several good answers and informations. 19:03:36 yess devel list was also suggested by good people - ankursinha and Justin. 19:03:59 Yeah, but how to build successfully healthy relationships ? 19:04:02 i have no idea on devel list as my tenure is short. 19:05:34 what I mean by it and really grateful for is timely feedback as a form of review comment and clear message, In face to face meeting, it is sort of similar. 19:05:51 On devel list you mostly get good answers about development or application related questions. 19:07:02 hkl Agreed! Unfortunately, everything is pretty frayed at the moment. 19:07:21 would you initiate it anytime soon? 19:07:39 what's frayed? 19:08:00 devel list moving to discussion? 19:08:18 Yes. As soon as we have our new design, I would like to select one or two articles and give it a try. 19:08:35 so many changes in one wave 19:08:51 it is hard to keep up. faster than my day job 19:08:58 moving devel is controversial. 19:09:48 Many seasoned developers see Matrix as too costly and too inefficient. Costs too much time. 19:10:30 Something for people who like to discuss instead of get things done. 19:10:57 Too much noise 19:11:16 i'm more inclined to use the tool that helps me get things done. 19:11:45 Most developers, too. And that is IRC and mailing list. 19:12:15 for them 19:12:55 Similar with Server WG. We don't iintend to swith wo Matrix or discussion. 19:13:25 so if we narrow down what we can do for Quick Docs, what would you suggest? 19:14:39 I'm trying to find someone, who can work on a new 'startpage and a new page structure for articles. darknao did already a lot. But his time is limited. 19:14:41 for me, I'll adapt to tools. 19:15:16 We have to figure out, what is possible in the next weeks. 19:15:25 unfortunately, presentation and UX are far from my strengths 19:16:02 Well., I'm quite familiar with those. But I'm already overcommited. 19:16:14 i'll focus on tech review on subject I know and help newbies. 19:16:51 ok then we need help from UX people in design team or elsewhere 19:16:55 Yes, and hopefully on keeping Workshops going? 19:17:16 That's my hope to revitalize Docs team 19:17:25 sure no doubt keeping workshop up and running 19:18:00 i'm pleased to work with you on that 19:18:16 Me too! 19:18:26 And Regarding the QD tasks, we have to make compromises for now. 19:19:00 We will not be able to make graphical changes. 19:19:18 So, the changes will be as minimal as possible. 19:19:41 i can only make small changes now for QD. Once workhop is well established, I can spend more time with new aticles on QD and major review 19:20:53 we got 10 min. i saw your message on GitLab admin stuff. could we touch on that? 19:20:53 On Flock I met a former Docs intern. She is interested in design and docs quality. And plans to help od join docs team. Hopefully, that will be successful. 19:21:10 nice, looking forward to it 19:21:20 Yes, gitlab admin stuff is another issue. 19:21:59 is issue piling up again? I haven't logged into GitLab for weeks 19:22:14 Yes, it is. 19:22:23 And there are some MR, too. 19:22:54 I merged some. But others have problems. And I don't have time to investigate the problem. 19:22:54 we have limited attention and efforts, so GitLab isn;t one of them. 19:23:14 Not for me, at he moment. 19:23:28 new people tend to spend more time in GitLab. 19:23:37 There is some effort to improve the UI. 19:23:53 although there are almost no user documentation to maintain 19:24:38 Yes. There is again a MR for the outdated Admin Guide. It's really a mess. 19:24:48 GitLab for Docs is docs build, CI, UX, and contributor guide. what else? 19:25:20 i'm out of depth on admin guide/Anaconda. 19:25:21 Well, docs home page, docs admin tools, and some more 19:25:57 Anaconda is on getlab as well. But it is stalled untill the new version is ready 19:26:17 UI/UX can impact site level, so powerful. 19:26:38 Yes, it influences the efficiency! 19:27:37 And the other thing is, the login works not good, I've always to fight with commercial cooky questions, etc. I'm quite annoyed. 19:28:04 right. However, I'm a writer and tinkerer, not UX, so I have to stay on what I can do best. 19:28:05 And all these things cost time. 19:28:55 time is nearly before closing, can we agree time for AV troubleshooting for us? 19:29:01 Well, ouir time is up. I suppose we still should discuss how to prepare the workshop? 19:29:14 where do we move to? 19:29:35 i think we have to leave this room 19:30:01 video call? 19:30:05 Yes. Let's continue tomorrow. It's rather late, 10pm 19:30:17 ah forgot. 19:30:33 oki ping me on email 19:30:44 Yes. Maybe tommorow any time after 13:00 UTC 19:30:55 Yes, I ping you by email tomorrow! 19:30:57 how to exit irc room? 19:31:03 Bye Bye! 19:31:14 bye 19:31:16 exit 19:31:24 I close the meeting and then turn simple off# 19:31:31 #endmeeting