19:30:34 <pboy> #startmeeting docs
19:30:34 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov  8 19:30:34 2023 UTC.
19:30:34 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
19:30:34 <zodbot> The chair is pboy. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
19:30:34 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:30:34 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs'
19:30:44 <pboy> The object today is to provide an opportunity to discuss some current issues directly, quasi virtually vis-a-vis
19:30:44 <pboy> Therefore, let's see who is here.
19:30:53 <pboy> #topic Roll call
19:30:54 <pboy> Please, everybody who is lurking, say either ".hello2" or ".hello <fasname>"
19:31:48 <hkl> .hello klavier
19:31:49 <zodbot> hkl: klavier 'Test Lab' <hanku.lee@gmail.com>
19:32:07 <pboy> Hi Hank!
19:32:11 <hkl> hello Peter and all
19:32:39 <pboy> Yeah, the "all" seem to be quite limited, today
19:33:28 <hkl> some may be lurking on Matrix :)
19:33:52 <pboy> Yeah, may be.
19:34:11 <pboy> Perhaps we should make a test next week?
19:34:21 <pboy> Kind of a Learning session
19:34:45 <hkl> we can do
19:35:16 <pboy> OK, let'a give  it a try
19:35:22 <hkl> you can talk to meetbot the same way
19:36:01 <pboy> I hope, I can find some documentation about Matrix zodbot and the commands.
19:36:17 <pboy> instead of # it seems to be a !
19:36:33 <hkl> meetbot is one of our trusty members :)
19:36:46 <pboy> yeah!
19:36:59 <pboy> unfortunately, he is lazy in writing docs  :-)
19:37:40 <pboy> Well,  let's start
19:37:49 <pboy> #topic Agenda
19:37:51 <hkl> oh you're saying 'writer's block'?
19:37:59 <pboy> #info November writing workshop agenda
19:37:59 <pboy> #info Docs Communication plan
19:37:59 <pboy> #info Experiences with automatically generating Release Notes
19:37:59 <pboy> #info Open floor
19:38:18 <pboy> Anything to add, to delete, to skip?
19:38:36 <hkl> that's fine as it is
19:38:43 <pboy> OK, then
19:38:53 <pboy> #topic 1. November writing workshop agenda
19:39:02 <pboy> #link https://scalar.vector.im/etherpad/p/fedora-test
19:39:02 <pboy> In about a week we have the next session.
19:39:12 <pboy> I'm looking forward to it.
19:40:47 <hkl> agenda for onboarding is shared on mastodon (using my erssonal account) and discussion. Great if marketing team can send it by official Fedora account.
19:40:55 <pboy> Basically, it is a repitition of our first session targetting to another time zone.
19:41:21 <hkl> last few days the team was swamped with release schedule, so I didn't nag them.
19:41:55 <hkl> yes, in advance and with clear target audience
19:42:32 <pboy> Regarding marketing team, maybe we should make a proposition (eh, my external translator just blow up, maybe my wording is completely wrong)
19:43:39 <hkl> they repurposed the wording of my personal post with marketing twis, which is helpful to grab attention. Can you ask them?
19:44:21 <hkl> marketing team can rephrase my post. I don't have energy to write more
19:44:27 <pboy> What should I ask?
19:44:44 <hkl> i just want to show and tell and engage with them
19:44:56 <pboy> Ah, I should ask them to spread the info.
19:45:01 <pboy> wright?
19:45:11 <pboy> right?
19:45:12 <hkl> yes correct
19:45:26 <pboy> OK, I'll do that.
19:45:27 <hkl> 1 week before and  1 day before
19:45:32 <hkl> Thanks
19:45:34 <pboy> It'
19:46:11 <pboy> It's a good idea  that both of us get active on all actions.
19:46:32 <pboy> Probably with different intensity, but nevertheless
19:46:39 <hkl> also we will repeat what agenda and audience expectation, so we caan stay on track
19:47:17 <hkl> i'm okay to moderate, but it is messy for new people to listen to our quibble
19:47:46 <pboy> Should we introduce out meeting as a opportunity to additionally discuss about anything of interest?
19:48:20 <hkl> i'd say Q&A session is a perfect opportunity to get feedback.
19:48:23 <pboy> maybe to bridge the time untill next writing tothether event.
19:48:55 <pboy> You mean the Q&A section in the meeting, Iguess?
19:49:01 <hkl> sort of 'next step' at the end of session
19:49:19 <hkl> yes the Q&A in the meeting
19:49:40 <pboy> OK, yes, next step is a good idea
19:50:25 <pboy> I guess, that's it for the moment?
19:50:52 <pboy> regarding tihis topic
19:51:03 <hkl> do you feel we need to change the content and format for onboarding or ok for initial plan?
19:51:36 <pboy> Do you mean the etherpad doc?
19:51:46 <hkl> lack of interacttion and returning guests is strange to me
19:52:10 <pboy> Yes, to me, too.
19:52:14 <hkl> yes on the etherpad, the agenda is almost same as belore.
19:53:08 <hkl> all I can think of may be the content is not they expected or they joined to oversee..don't know.
19:53:28 <hkl> it happens at my day work, too.
19:53:32 <pboy> Yes, I think we decided about some variation of our first session.
19:54:03 <hkl> i can only ensure people know the agenda and objectives that match their interest
19:54:21 <pboy> first one is, to make shorter presentations by ourself and to ask for questions or ideas to start interactiveness
19:54:43 <pboy> we should try to start a discussion
19:54:52 <pboy> and exchange anyhow
19:55:06 <hkl> do you mean start with getting questions first?
19:55:35 <pboy> No not first, but after the first, very short presentation / introduction.
19:55:56 <hkl> that requires the highest level of interaction - Even stronger than press conference
19:56:17 <pboy> And we should include your idea "next stelp" about 15 mins before close
19:56:26 <hkl> i misundertood. ok after the short presentation
19:57:09 <pboy> yes, much shorter as my interduction last time. It was too long.
19:57:11 <hkl> onboarding is 30 min, so we can go over it quicker than track 2 hands-on workshop
19:57:39 <hkl> wee can share the bio instead
19:57:58 <pboy> Yeah, I hope it is not too short. Just in case we get into a vivid discussion
19:58:03 <hkl> go straight to agenda and expected audience to be clear about expectationn
19:58:36 <pboy> what do you mean with "share the bioop instead"?
19:59:11 <pboy> bioop -> bio
19:59:21 <hkl> i;m okay witth
20:04:35 <hkl> back
20:04:50 <pboy> Welcome back :-)
20:05:26 <hkl> back i hope
20:06:16 <pboy> I got the idea, should we shortly discuss the agenda and how to put it forward in a video call?
20:06:23 <hkl> i got logs reserved in Konversation (KDE IRC client) yay
20:06:29 <pboy> Probably Monday or so?
20:07:02 <hkl> that's good for me. what time?
20:07:23 <pboy> I have no fixed date. So, what is best for you?
20:08:27 <pboy> no fixed appointments, seens the better term
20:08:42 <hkl> i can do at lunch time (13:00 in German time) or evening 20:30 (19:30 UK time)
20:09:04 <pboy> Evening would be mor comforable for me.
20:09:25 <pboy> but 13:00 would be OK, too
20:09:34 <pboy> it it is better for your family
20:10:25 <hkl> i agree evening is better for me. no interruption from work commitment
20:10:53 <pboy> OK, Monday 20:30 German / 19':30 UK.
20:11:21 <pboy> Looking forward! It is much nicer and more productive then all gthis typing
20:11:52 <pboy> Let's switch tro text topic ?
20:12:12 <hkl> so Monday 13 Nov - link is here https://meet.jit.si/moderated/55f82d00c5fdf7ab39ead5bcd27de170b3ce8c505ceac34cd5f2b052039a4094
20:12:40 <hkl> yes next
20:12:58 <pboy> Link copied. Thanks for it.
20:13:10 <pboy> topic 2. Docs Communication plan
20:13:20 <pboy> #link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/93411
20:14:04 <pboy> I've learned from the experience so far, we should put more attention to our "marketing"
20:14:31 <pboy> Allthough, that's new territory for me.
20:15:07 <hkl> yes, we need more effort and support to get our voice heard..I dropped in to various social channels and WTD as a random person.
20:15:34 <hkl> I regret we need more structure.
20:15:34 <pboy> I guess, there are no sessions on the release party as last time, and the times before.
20:16:07 <pboy> What is WTD?
20:16:55 <hkl> the Write the Docs team (Alan Bowman is active there), Matthew mentioned in discourse
20:17:29 <hkl> one pady from WTD came to the workshop in ctober
20:17:34 <hkl> lady
20:17:43 <pboy> Oh, I think we urgently need the "Jargon buster" think you proposed  :-)
20:18:11 <hkl> i'm with you on that..it could 'break the ice'
20:18:33 <pboy> Yeah.
20:18:47 <hkl> the most frightening moment is when existing members throw out docs vernacular in the meeting
20:18:53 <pboy> Do you know some details about the release party?
20:19:12 <pboy> That would be a good opportunity
20:19:39 <hkl> still reviewing. I'd say time is pressed for release, not the party
20:19:54 <pboy> Yeah.
20:20:03 <hkl> i can drop in to listen in. I already registered
20:20:29 <hkl> way to ambitious to send out agenda less than 3 days before the event
20:20:47 <pboy> Registered on the hopin page?
20:21:08 <pboy> well, the event start on Friday,  in 2 days.
20:21:41 <pboy> And I didn't see any agenda yet.
20:21:55 <hkl> yes. Friday is my working day afternoon, so I can sneak in few minutes during my coffee break but can't join in full
20:22:20 <pboy> I reserved the time to attend all the time.
20:22:37 <pboy> Welll. it's just on talk by Metthew until now.
20:24:49 <hkl> what other topics before we finish?
20:25:36 <pboy> We need to talk about the Release Notes, I think. I'll switch.
20:25:52 <pboy> #topic 3. Experiences with automatically generating Release Notes
20:26:24 <pboy> We should evaluate the first run of automatically generate the release notes
20:27:14 <pboy> I read a remark by pbokoc, that the content of the cange proposals were not really useful.
20:27:34 <hkl> sure. It will be easier for me to share ideas after it is done.
20:27:45 <pboy> Did you check the quality and coompleteness of the release notes?
20:27:56 <hkl> i saw your interaction with Petr Bokoc and Francois
20:28:21 <hkl> TBH i have no understanding on rel notes it is beyond me
20:29:35 <pboy> OK, yes, it is very technically in some sections. And many things are a bit (too) sparse
20:29:59 <pboy> So, I'll start a thread on discussion.
20:30:26 <pboy> Well, I think, we can close now, and skip Open Floor?
20:30:59 <hkl> no problem, thanks for todau
20:31:17 <pboy> Yes, see you on Monday!!!!
20:31:23 <hkl> yep
20:31:28 <pboy> #endmeeting