<@jflory7:fedora.im>
12:59:48
!startmeeting Fedora Docs Team meeting - 2025-12-16
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
12:59:50
Meeting started at 2025-12-16 12:59:48 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
12:59:50
The Meeting name is 'Fedora Docs Team meeting - 2025-12-16'
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
12:59:55
!meetingname docs
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
12:59:56
The Meeting Name is now docs
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:00:29
!topic Agenda
<@hricky:fedora.im>
13:00:55
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:00:57
Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:01:32
Oh dear. I'm having a weird copy paste issue with the agenda and indention. Let me clear cache and refresh π
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:01:56
Well, in the meantime:
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:01:59
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:02:01
Peter Boy (pboy)
<@lochipi:matrix.org>
13:02:06
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:02:09
Cornelius Emase (lochipi) - he / him / his
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:02:13
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:02:14
Petr BokoΔ (pbokoc)
<@jspaleta:fedora.im>
13:02:30
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:02:32
Jef Spaleta (jspaleta) - he / him / his
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:03:57
A lot of people attending today :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:04:33
!info 1. Introduction, Quick Hello, the Agenda
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:04:39
!info 2. Basic Framework: What are we expect to do
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:04:42
!info 3. Round of Introductions (Who you are, what youβre interested in)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:04:45
!info 4. Cursory Overview: What are we doing next
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:04:48
!info 5. Next meetingβs topics
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:04:58
!link https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/docs-initiative-2025-kick-off-meeting/176624
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:05:06
!topic Introduction, Quick Hello, the Agenda
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:05:12
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:05:15
Justin Wheeler (jflory7) - he / him / his
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:05:55
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs), Hristo Marinov, Cornelius Emase, Petr Bokoc, Jef Spaleta: Hello! Good `$TIME_OF_DAY`, folks π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:06:10
Indeed! It is already shaping up to be a nice quorum π
<@chris_idoko:matrix.org>
13:06:26
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:06:29
Chris Idoko (chris)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:06:57
Hey Chris Onoja Idoko! π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:07:21
Well, we are seven minutes past the hour. Let's go ahead and get started! Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs) has some kick-off things prepared too.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:08:04
!info Present: @hricky, @pboy, @lochipi, @pbokoc, @jspaleta, @jflory7, @chris
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:08:17
!topic Basic Framework: What are we expect to do
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:08:28
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): I believe you had prepared for this one?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:08:54
Yes, it is https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-initiative-2025/wiki/Initial-Tasks
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:02
Oh, right, you did send me that π
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:09:26
It is a very compact summary of the ideas behind the inititavie
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:39
!info As part of the discussion prep for today, please review this general overview and summary of the recently-approved Fedora Docs Community Initiative.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:41
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-initiative-2025/wiki/Initial-Tasks
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:57
!info For the long-form version of the proposal, please see the Wiki page for the proposal.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:59
!link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Initiatives/Fedora_Docs_2025
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:10:13
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): Is this a FYI/announcement, or did you want to have a discussion on the initial tasks?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:11:08
!info In summary, the core tasks of the Fedora Docs Team are described as follows: Maintenance of the publication system (Antora, Git, CI); Curating the presentation and structure of docs site; Graphical design; Improving publication tools for easier use; Workshops, training material; Quality Assurance; Promoting new content-specific specialist groups or authors;Supporting existing specialist groups or authors
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:11:11
It is a summary, maybe a base to instigate questions.,
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:12:11
Great. I think it is good overview.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:12:18
Let's get to the interactive part, and do some introductions?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:12:30
I'm excited to get to know our collection of folks we have here today π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:12:48
!topic Round of Introductions (Who you are, what youβre interested in)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:12:57
OK! I have an idea for this section of the meeting agenda.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:13:11
Doing it this way will make my work after the meeting of summarizing the meeting much easier π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:13:25
I'd like everyone to use a template `!info` and write a short bio to put in the meeting minutes.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:13:35
This will help us get to know each other better, and why we are here!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:14:24
Here is the template: `!info NAME; FAS USERNAME; OTHER FEDORA TEAMS INVOLVED; WHY YOU SHOWED UP / WHAT INTERESTS YOU IN DOCS (bonus points if you use examples from the new team summary on the Forgejo wiki page)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:14:28
Here is the template: \`!info NAME; FAS USERNAME; OTHER FEDORA TEAMS INVOLVED; WHY YOU SHOWED UP / WHAT INTERESTS YOU IN DOCS (bonus points if you use examples from the new team summary on the Forgejo wiki page)`
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:14:35
Here is the template: `!info NAME; FAS USERNAME; OTHER FEDORA TEAMS INVOLVED; WHY YOU SHOWED UP / WHAT INTERESTS YOU IN DOCS (bonus points if you use examples from the new team summary on the Forgejo wiki page)`
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:14:44
I can give my example.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:15:43
!info Justin; jflory7; CommOps, DEI Team, Council, Mindshare, Flock Organizers, a lot of other things too π; helping out with program management for the Docs Team, onboarding newcomers, and thinking about information architecture for how we group/publish information
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:15:55
Ta-da, something like this. Doesn't need to be so long but you get the idea.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:16:34
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs), Hristo Marinov, Cornelius Emase, Petr Bokoc, Jef Spaleta, Chris Onoja Idoko, hank: Mind writing a `!info` statement like this for the chat?
<@lochipi:matrix.org>
13:18:07
!info Cornelius; lochipi; DEI, Join SIG; I want to help in all the areas I can. As mentioned in the wiki - " (Forge programming, reviewing, writing)". And also, Docs is the quickest/easiest path to onboarding new contributors, and I'm good at it :)
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:18:30
!info Petr BokoΔ, pbokoc; Docs initiative co-lead, currently Council, long time docs contributor, mostly keeping the docs running, fixing issues, merging PRs and helping people from other teams if needed
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:19:16
!info Freya; venefilyn; Cockpit package contributor; Dev for Cockpit, recently worked on migrating Cockpit's documentation from DocBook to AsciiDoc and have been talking with docs team for feedback, recently wrote a blog post about AsciiDoctor and asciidoc-py compatibility. Just here to listen in!
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:19:42
Oh do I need to do something else first for it to work? :D
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:20:15
It just takes a sec :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:20:31
Venefilyn: Hi Freya, welcome! π Happy to have you here π
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:20:40
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:20:41
Freya Gustavsson (venefilyn) - they / them / theirs or she / her / hers
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:20:42
!info Peter Boy; FAS pboy; OTHER FEDORA TEAMS INVOLVED: Server WG ; WHY YOU SHOWED UP: long term engagement ind docs, one of the authors of the initiative / WHAT INTERESTS YOU IN DOCS: I use Fedora (server) very intensively and need good documentation. In addition, docs is absolutely essential to make Fedora more visible and widely used as a distribution.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:20:46
Meet Bot was still having morning coffee π
<@hricky:fedora.im>
13:21:00
!info NAME: Hristo Marinov; FAS USERNAME: hricky; OTHER FEDORA TEAMS INVOLVED: bootc, CoreOS, Atoomic Desktops; WHY YOU SHOWED UP / WHAT INTERESTS YOU IN DOCS: To help with whatever I have the skills to do.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:21:32
Hey Hristo Marinov, nice to see you again, it has been a while since we bumped into each other π
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
13:21:41
I'm here now
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:21:43
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): Well, we already know each other well at this point π
<@chris_idoko:matrix.org>
13:21:55
!info Chris Idoko; chris; Fedora Badges, DEI; I contribute mainly to the Badges team and other areas like community design and events. My interest lies in using design to implement better UX for the Fedora documentation and its revitalisation
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
13:21:56
!hi
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:21:57
hi guys just joined
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:21:58
Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:22:13
Yukih, Brandon Nielsen: Welcome! We are doing quick introductions for our first kick-off meeting! It would be great if you write a bio line using the template above:
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:22:32
Here it is again: `!info NAME; FAS USERNAME; OTHER FEDORA TEAMS INVOLVED; WHY YOU SHOWED UP / WHAT INTERESTS YOU IN DOCS` (bonus points if you use examples from the new team summary on the Forgejo wiki page)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:22:43
Chris Onoja Idoko: Great to see you here too π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:23:03
Chris Onoja Idoko was one of our folks who helped kick off this research a while back:
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:23:04
!link https://gitlab.com/fedora/commops/home/-/work_items/71
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:23:57
Cornelius Emase, Petr Bokoc, Jef Spaleta, hank: If y'all are at the keyboard, feel free to drop an intro too π
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
13:24:05
!info Brandon Nielsen; nielsenb; QA; If it isn't documented, we can't expect people to use it.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:24:11
We'll give it 3-4 minutes more, since more folks just jumped in.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:24:21
Welcome Brandon Nielsen, nice to meet you! π
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:24:34
Pfft, I so did
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:24:46
Wowwwww. I missed it π€£
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:24:51
Can I blame Matrix? π€£
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:25:10
Welcome to you too, Petr π
<@lochipi:matrix.org>
13:25:15
dropped it after you :)
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:25:26
Yeah I blame Matrix for everything really. Stubbed a toe? Matrix. Missed a bus? Matrix.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:25:34
Wow. I really swear that I did not see those messages.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:25:36
But I see them now π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:25:47
Cornelius Emase: Welcome for you too, our workshop superstar! π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:26:05
Cornelius Emase has been organizing some in-person Fedora Docs workshops, which have been really cool to see: https://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-at-kirinyaga-university-docs-workshop/
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:27:16
Richard; Yukih; I'm involved in the rust sig though not active as much; I showed up because I wanted to make a reform of the the Docs website to make it easier for new members to gather information and learn about fedora
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:27:31
Yukih: Add `!info` before your bio and Meet Bot will log it!
<@lochipi:matrix.org>
13:27:51
π€©πͺ
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:28:00
!info Richard; Yukih; I'm involved in the rust sig though not active as much; I showed up because I wanted to make a reform of the the Docs website to make it easier for new members to gather information and learn about fedora
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:28:01
And welcome Richard, too π Nice to see you made it here π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:28:10
Perfect π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:28:19
I see Jef Spaleta typing. After that, we will move on with the agenda π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:28:51
Also, in case you didn't guess, today's agenda was mostly casual and informal. We are not going to get a lot of work done before the end of the year, but it is really wonderful to see the enthusiasm and interest in Fedora Docs Team once again!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:29:06
So, today is a good "icebreaker" / "introductions" focus π
<@jspaleta:fedora.im>
13:30:14
!info Jef Spaleta, (newish) Fedora Project Leader. I herd the cats.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:19
OK, sometimes Matrix gets the "is typingβ¦" notifications wrong. Jef might drop an introduction in shortly, but he is our Fedora Project Leader and chief cat herder of the Fedora Project.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:22
Hah, nice.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:30:25
Yeah it's really wonderful, To be honest I was driven to making a better docs page than Arch. Whose with me
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:31
I love how we both went with "cat herding" there without planning it.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:32
So!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:34
Let's proceed!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:37
!topic Cursory Overview: What are we doing next
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:57
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs) had three sub-topics here:
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:57
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:57
β Some organizational tasks: mission statement, groups and membership
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:57
β Advocating Docs (events, postings, etc.)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:57
β Improving our publishing tools (guidance and/or function)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:31:16
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): Want to introduce these a bit? Or do you want me to improvise?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:31:54
Well, we have already started some basic organizaion tasks.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:31:58
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-initiative-2025/projects
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:32:05
Ambitious, but the Arch Wiki is a pretty well-known, reputable competition in the field. That is for sure π
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:32:14
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-initiative-2025/milestones
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:32:22
!link https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-initiative-2025/projects
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:32:28
Oh nice, I did not see this roadmap yet π
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:32:37
It is at the very beginning. We will continue to add to this.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:33:07
I thing, we have to to some orga tasks, e.g. membership.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:33:22
We have done the first step today.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:33:42
I had some topics.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:33:42
1. Provision of a good architecture to lead docs team. We can't write blindly.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:33:42
2. A talk about the current theme and what needs to be changed.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:33:42
3. Migration to forgejo. What repos need to be deleted because I realized we have repos unmaintained for years.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:34:00
membership means also: permission of forge.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:34:52
Currently, very important is to advocate docs. Many Fedorians know docs as sleeping. We have to fix this.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:35:03
On the topic of group membership, and partly related to Forgejo migration, we likely need to work on updating the FAS group membership too. I do have an open ticket about some infrastructure plumbing to help make it easier for us to maintain FAS group permissions and Forgejo permissions.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:35:06
!link https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/12984
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:35:30
Well, then lets get better isnt it
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:35:58
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): I have a question about the Forgejo repository structure. Do we have a "single" repo to rule them all for our task tracking? Or are we splitting it up between multiple repos?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:36:25
Related to the topic of architecture that Yukih suggests, I think it could be helpful for us to have one "main" or "home" repo for all things tasks and to-do's for the Docs Team.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:36:48
This is one challenge I have today with our current setup. We have lots of places to keep track of, and not a central, unified place to organize our various to-do's.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:37:11
Yukih had some ideas presented here too, but the best way forward will be to track these in an issue tracker somewhere, so we can plan them and recruit help.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:37:26
Well, we need the initiative repo to track and manage our initiative work. And we will need the docs repo for our longterm work. So we need currently both.
<@lochipi:matrix.org>
13:37:28
the journey has already begun, we;re changing that
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:37:35
Yeah, I agree. Like it even makes it hard to have a maintained pipeline for CI/CD
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:38:08
If we have repos in different places it defeats the purpose of structure
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:38:20
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): What is your opinion of using one issue tracker, and using features like Milestones or Project Boards to track the Initiative work? I am open to what works best for you and Petr Bokoc on the Initiative planning part. But definitely, for the team-wide tracker, we should clearly designate one and only one tracker for team planning.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:39:06
To some extent though, for content repos, this is always going to be true. I don't think it is in scope to keep all Fedora Docs repos together in one organization on Forgejo. The docs should live with the teams who maintain them. The core Docs Team is not accountable for every single page of content that is published out there.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:39:28
Yes! π―
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:39:33
Justin Wheeler: agreed, we need a genuine docs tracker. It's already there. And we have to import the tracker on gitlab.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:39:52
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): Which GitLab issue do we want to "import" from GitLab?
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:40:17
We can also include a page to help people who want to contribute to the docs. To help them learn the tools we use, what architecture we follow, and how the pipeline works
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:40:48
At long term the complete docs section. First the tracker over there, and second the docs homepage, including the CI/CXD part.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:41:00
What if we have unresponsive teams?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:41:09
there
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:41:26
Well currently we have one designated tracker for general team tasks: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:41:26
And yes, content repos are always going to be separate, since most of them "belong" to non-docs teams and don't need much interaction from us most of the time.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:41:26
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:41:26
I suppose we could merge them if people really want a single one, but we set it up like this so the initiative would be apart
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:41:26
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:41:26
And a separate one just for the initiative: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:41:33
There we should use one tracker for all the detailed docs repos.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:41:48
mhhhhhh
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:41:57
The only separate is the initiative. At least that's my idea.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:41:57
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs), Petr Bokoc: Actually I just looked at GitLab, and we don't have a "meta" team tracker and tasks repo. I found the old on on Pagure π
https://pagure.io/fedora-docs/docs-fp-o/issues
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:42:09
I don't know how valuable it is to migrate that Pagure repo to Forgejo
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:42:20
Damn π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:42:27
Maybe it makes sense to start fresh after all, and we can migrate the git repos for components that are still used, like the website, theme, etc.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:42:36
On gitlab, all the repos there are mirrored or inlcuded in one tracker.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:43:07
Yeah. Plus we can have a check list for the needed issues if we ever need reference....
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:43:11
Their docs, their problem :) Like, say, if a SIG has some docs that we publish and they leave them outdated, they're the ones who get people asking questions that could be avoided by writing proper docs. I'm happy to help them but if they're just unresponsive, it's mostly their problem
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:43:27
Perhaps for this repo, https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/fedora-docs-issues, we could rename the repo to "tickets" or "home", just so it is more clear by the name where the core Docs Team does our to-do tracking?
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
13:43:45
The people that complain on the forum and social media won't see it that way.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:44:03
Oh, when you say one tracker, do you mean the overview at https://gitlab.com/groups/fedora/docs/-/issues ?
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:44:20
Justin Wheeler: Agreed, fedora-docs-home or fedora-docs work
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:44:36
Makes sense
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:44:38
We have this to an extent, but I am sure we can improve it. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-docs/contributing-docs/
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:44:42
Yes, that overview one.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:45:33
Definitely need improvement
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:45:40
I mean, sure, if there's a big wave of complaints about some old docs being outright wrong, and the team is unresponsive, I can just take them down until they fix it
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:45:56
If keeping the Initiative and main team repos separate works for you and Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs), then it works for me. We will need to be disciplined about which things go into which repo though, especially if we want to involve others from the team and not just the three of us for the Initiative. Things that could go in the Initiative repo would be something like "prepare Fedora Council Strategy Summit presentation", for instance.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:46:03
## Time check: 10 minutes remaining before next topic
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:46:09
And if we host other groups docs, we have to renegotioate with them. Making clear, who is resoncilbe for update.
<@jspaleta:fedora.im>
13:46:19
hmm... this reads on my thoughts on SIG health as a broader concept. What is the best way to track which SIGs are keeping up with their docs.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:46:56
I would also like to point out that Forgejo has a rudimentary reporting feature where you can see all repos in a given "organization" (in our case, docs), and all their issues and PRs and milestones in one spot: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/org/docs/dashboard
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:46:58
Petr and me are just in the planning phase how to do the relocation of the repos.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:47:33
Agreed with Petr Bokoc. It is not our responsibility as the core Docs Team to update all of the docs. If someone notices outdated docs with CoreOS for example, then that person should be empowered to go to the CoreOS team and help raise a Pull Request to update them. It is very important that we don't try to "own" too much work as the core Fedora Docs team, because there are tens of docs repos out there, all maintained by different teams who have different rules and policies for maintaining their docs. It is not our place to dictate to others how to write their docs. But if they want help, that is why this group of people is here.
<@jspaleta:fedora.im>
13:47:56
can the docs team come up with a metric that we can track.. so we can do a periodic assessment for each pocket that has its own SIG scoped to maintain it?
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:48:04
yeah
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:48:10
My idea is to use a Forgejo runner to collect and check the "Last content change" of the docs CD. It's part of my QA idea section.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:48:10
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:48:10
> What is the best way to track which SIGs are keeping up with their docs.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:48:21
Since Forgejo URL already has `fedoraproject.org` and `docs` in the URL, I like short things like `home` for the repo name π It makes it more memorable and less repetitive
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:48:53
Improving the "Contributing to the Fedora Docs" page is 100% something that _this_ group of folks can help with π
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:49:12
Ahhhh, yeah, it'll just be a big burden we involve ourselves in
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:49:20
Ufff, that's gonna be hard. Some docs just don't need updating all that much. Either they're very basic (just team info for example - like Fedora QA currently has: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/qa-docs/), or they're just documenting something that hasn't really changed since 1985
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:50:17
<del>When LWN picks up something on fire and it echoes into the Mastodon/fediverse as a poor reflection on Fedora</del>β uhhh, it is probably worth a bigger discussion in another meeting or with the Council, or maybe a Docs Team ticket. π We have tried things before with mixed levels of success.
<@jspaleta:fedora.im>
13:51:13
"we dont do this because its easy.. we do this because we thought it would be easy" If there are a couple of metrics that could be trended and we can publish.. it _may_ help surface "the opportunities in the shape of a problem" that helps us connect contributors to each SIG that isnt keeping up.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:51:37
We probably need a longer-form discussion on this topic than the 5 minutes we have remaining today. This is particularly tricky because as far as _content_ goes, what defines "active" is not going to be the same for every team. Some teams run in the Fedora release cycle, and no updates in six months is a red flag. Other teams may have updates a few times a year, and that is perfectly healthy.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:51:53
Jef Spaleta: As I said, we have a "Last Content change" in the Docs CD. We can use this to track and to identify e.g. articles oldder than 2 years.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:52:06
Interesting. I don't know much about Forgejo runners. I'd like to know what your research looks like here so far!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:52:40
Exactly this point. Which is why we won't come up with a metric in the next three minutes before we change topics π
<@jspaleta:fedora.im>
13:53:12
do we have a way to link that with SIG ownership of a page.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:53:26
Anything about measuring activity and health of a Docs site needs to consider this part though: "This is particularly tricky because as far as content goes, what defines "active" is not going to be the same for every team. Some teams run in the Fedora release cycle, and no updates in six months is a red flag. Other teams may have updates a few times a year, and that is perfectly healthy."
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:53:49
Jef Spaleta: There is a history lesson here that I can share with you some other time. Ben Cotton tried to do something like this with a dashboard. But it didn't quite work the way we had hoped.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:54:18
!link https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/status_reports
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:54:35
Jef Spaleta: I suggest crawling through that to preface the discussion on SIG/docs activity.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:54:42
Any way, we need some QA ch
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:54:56
Any way, we need some QA checks
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:54:58
And Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs) could perhaps share more for us next time about the Forgejo runner piece, because we have some really cool features in Forgejo that we never had in Pagure, or had to pay for in GitLab
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:06
OK, 5 minutes remaining!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:12
So, this part of the agenda was not so organized π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:15
But that's okay!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:25
It was helpful to hear everyone's ideas, thoughts, critiques, and questions.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:32
In the future, our agendas will be more tightly scoped.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:40
And we will likely have more narrow discussions on very specific things at a time.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:47
So, let's move to the final part of our agenda for today.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:55
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): I will be turning this one over to you!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:56:06
!topic Next meetingβs topics
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:56:11
The big question⦠what next?!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:56:47
!info The next scheduled Fedora Docs Team meeting is Tuesday, 13 January 2026, at 13:00 UTC (8 AM US EST)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:57:34
We will normally meet every two weeks. But in two weeks, it is a common holiday week in most parts of the world. So, the next meeting is in four weeks, so folks who have been busy working hard can take a deserved rest before coming back fresh in the new year π
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:58:22
Currently, we prepare advocating docs. That's currently something for Petr and me. We will inform on Matrix, and if someone will join , would be great.
<@yukih:fedora.im>
13:58:26
Thanks π«Ά
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:58:56
The other urgend items are conritbution guides and design.
<@pboy:fedora.im>
13:59:19
We need some people for each to work on it.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:00:08
!info Anticipated next topics in the new year: Advocating for Fedora Docs (e.g. going to events, running workshops, helping invite others to write and contribute to Fedora Docs content); contribution guides maintained by the Fedora Docs Team on how to contribute; UI/UX improvements to the Antora UI bundle used for the design of the Fedora Docs website
<@pboy:fedora.im>
14:00:10
We'll complete the project page, and then we can assign tasks.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:00:58
!halp There is lots of room to pick an area of passion, and volunteer to help lead it! There are lots of things to do, and not enough people to do them all. Reflect over the winter holidays on how you would like to participate, be involved, and what might be a passion project for you as a Fedora Docs Team member
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:01:38
!info The Fedora Docs 2025 Initiative Co-Leads, @pboy and @pbokoc, will work on the Projects board on Forgejo and continue to do setup of our new home on forge.fedoraproject.org as we get into the new year.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:01:56
Peter Boy (ServerWG, Docs): I think this will be a good wrapping place!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:05
We are one minute over time. And we had a very lively discussion today.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:10
So, let's go ahead and wrap it here.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:19
A bigggg thanks to everyone who showed up here today!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:22
The energy was amazing!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:31
Fedora Docs has been missing this for some time π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:38
And it feels like we are starting something new and awesome.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:54
I hope everyone has a wonderful year-end and gets some time to rest, relax, and prepare for an exciting 2026 ahead.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:03:05
Please take care, and I will see many of you around in the Fedora-verse, or in 2026!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:03:08
Take care! π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:03:12
!endmeeting