<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:00:43
!startmeeting docs
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
13:00:44
Meeting started at 2026-04-21 13:00:43 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
13:00:44
The Meeting name is 'docs'
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:00:59
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:01
Christian Strauf: Christian Strauf (cstrauf)
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:01:05
!hi
<@korora:fedora.im>
13:01:08
!hi
<@theprogram:fedora.im>
13:01:09
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:09
Venefilyn: Freya Gustavsson (venefilyn) - they / them / theirs or she / her / hers
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:01:10
!topic Roll Call
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:11
Jocelyn Gould: Jocelyn Gould (korora) - she / her / hers
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:12
MatH: Mat H (theprogram)
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
13:01:21
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:23
Brandon Nielsen: Brandon Nielsen (nielsenb)
<@egret:fedora.im>
13:01:25
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:26
Eli Ridge: Eli Ridge (egret)
<@pg-tips:fedora.im>
13:01:38
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:40
P G: P G (pg-tips)
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:01:45
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:46
Petr Bokoc: Petr BokoΔ (pbokoc)
<@hricky:fedora.im>
13:01:54
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:01:55
Hristo Marinov: Hristo Marinov (hricky) - he / him / his
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:02:32
Lots of people today! I'll give it a few more minutes, Justin is finishing another meeting. Also Peter Boy says he's stuck in a traffic jam :D
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:02:36
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:02:37
Justin Wheeler: Justin Wheeler (jflory7) - he / him / his
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:02:42
Hey folks! Yes, wrapping another meeting!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:02:46
Distracted for 2-3 more mins
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:02:51
But I am here
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:03:07
Petr Bokoc: Did we have a shortlist of topics for today?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:03:19
Alternatively, do any folks in attendance today have topics/tickets they wanted to discuss?
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:03:32
Well, we have https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/tickets/projects/407 :)
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:04:47
Ah! This reminds me that MatH and I need to close the beginner's guide issue. :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:05:01
Oh yeah! How smart! π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:05:08
Yes, I think it is time π
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
- https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-template/issues/18
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
- Action items from last week
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
- Announcements
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
- Beginner's Guide (linking from frontpage)
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
- Open Floor
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
!topic Agenda
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
- Docs Graveyard
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:05:33
- https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/tickets/issues/19
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:06:19
So, let me quickly start with announcements
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:06:23
!topic Announcements
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:07:26
!info There will be a release party on Friday, even though F44 won't actually be released by then, hehe. But I'm doing a quick 15 minute talk about docs, sort of a project update focused on the Docs Initiative that we started last November. The relparty schedule is here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux_44_Release_Party_Schedule
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:07:45
The time is 1300-1600 UTC.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:08:08
Also, don't forget to RSVP, there's a link near the top of the wiki page.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:08:15
(Or here: https://rsvp.fedoraproject.org/releases/f44/)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:08:34
Woot! I'm excited! π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:08:48
!link https://rsvp.fedoraproject.org/releases/f44/
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:12
Register! _OR ELSE._ (or else you won't get an automatic invite to the Matrix room)
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:09:14
!info We now have two new Docs team members - Michael Winters and Eli Ridge. Congratulations and welcome aboard!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:37
Woot [@mwinters:fedora.im](https://matrix.to/#/@mwinters:fedora.im) [@egret:fedora.im](https://matrix.to/#/@egret:fedora.im) ππ» ππ»
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:09:42
Congrats!
<@korora:fedora.im>
13:10:09
Congrats Michael and Eli!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:10:14
I have one announcement
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:10:45
!info "Nominate Your Fedora Heroes: Mentor and Contributor Recognition 2026": As we prepare to spotlight exceptional mentors and contributors across the Fedora Project, we invite you to help us appreciate the amazing contributors who help shape the community. Whether it is a veteran mentor who helped you begin your journey or a contributor whose efforts have truly reshaped the communityβs landscape, now is the moment to celebrate them! Discover more about the nomination guidelines and submit your entry using the link provided.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:10:54
!link https://fedoramagazine.org/nominate-your-fedora-heroes-mentor-and-contributor-recognition-2026/
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:11:23
This is gonna be fun!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:11:34
We are going to announce the results at Flock. Get the nominations in now!!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:11:43
<eof>
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:11:49
EOF
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:12:07
Since apparently crocodile brackets make invisible messages on Element Android app
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
13:12:26
The android crocodiles eat the text.
<@nielsenb:fedora.im>
13:12:32
And the bigger number.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:13:33
Alright, any other announcements?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:14:29
None from me
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:14:44
With enough time though, I'll start to think of some, but I think we should just proceed π
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:15:25
Guess not. Alright, let's start with action items from the last meeting.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:15:38
I basically only know of one, it's also the Beginner's Guide topic, I shouldn't have put it in the agenda twice :). It's still not linked from the frontpage, sorry everyone, that's on me. I'm hoping to untangle the CSS and get it there later today
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:16:01
The progress has been nice to see with the Beginner's Guide!
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:16:44
Does anyone have anything from the last time they'd like to discuss? if not, we can move on to current tickets.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:17:10
Oh, ahem.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:17:29
!info pbokoc will add a link to the Beginner's Guide to the frontpage soon
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:17:45
Works for me.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:17:47
Anyway!
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:18:01
!topic https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-template/issues/18
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:18:31
Oh, this is a small task but an important one
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:18:51
Freshly opened ticket, would be really nice to have it done, not particularly difficult
<@korora:fedora.im>
13:18:53
I can work on this one, as it looks like no one has done so yet
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:19:17
Cool!
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:19:49
I guess that's all for this one.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:19:56
!topic https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/tickets/issues/19
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:20:25
jflory7 has already given cookies to korora during the F43 timeframe
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:20:39
This one's more complicated, I'd really appreciate if someone could take a look at this. Fix this primarily in the template repo so we have a setup that we know is good, and then we can move the changes to everywhere else.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:21:26
!action @korora Work on removing references to GitLab and Pagure in the Docs template repository. Provide an update at the next Docs Team meeting.
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:21:30
The biggest issue is very likely the missing Containerfile. Without it, modifying the build process will be difficult.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:22:32
Is this our container image or upstream's?
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:22:55
Should be ours since it builds with all Fedora Antora styles etc..
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:23:05
(Might be wrong.)
<@pg-tips:fedora.im>
13:25:06
That's the one that e.g. the Beginner's Guide docsbuilder.sh uses
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:25:08
Do we have a better container registry we can push to? Also does anyone know how the Forge actions so we can auto-build the container?
<@pg-tips:fedora.im>
13:26:17
The Dockerfile is here I think: https://gitlab.com/fedora/docs/docs-website/ui-bundle/-/blob/main/Dockerfile?ref_type=heads
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:26:39
It would be soooo cool to do this in Forge
<@hricky:fedora.im>
13:26:45
Last time I tried, it was not possible to build a container using Fedora Forge. But I may be missed something.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:26:53
Forgejo can provide container registries, I am pretty sure
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:26:59
Oh!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:27:16
!link https://forgejo.org/docs/next/user/packages/container/
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:27:44
Also for local building stuff I used this one which works. Also has a Containerfile there
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:27:44
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-fp-o/src/branch/prod/build-scripts
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:28:05
It needs updating to use the `package.json` though
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:29:40
It seems like this one could be a big investigation
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:29:40
There seem to be the following issues:
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:29:40
- There're different docsbuilde.sh versions in different repos which to different things. One gets antora containers directly from antora, the other from the fedora gitlab container registry.
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:29:40
- It needs to be figured out whether we can move the registry to Forgejo.
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:29:58
I think that the issue doesn't do the completeness of the chaos justice. :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:02
Not only do we need to explore the container registry functionality of Forgejo, but we also need to locate this Containerfile used for the GitLab CI pipeline
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:30:09
Write it in the issue comments please Christian Strauf
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:30:25
There's more that's not covered by the issue:
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:30:26
Or just to some container registry, doesn't have to be forgejo either. As long as we have a workflow in Forgejo we can push wherever
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:35
It sounds like we will need someone to experiment with this: https://forgejo.org/docs/next/user/packages/container/
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:40
I would prefer if we hosted it in Forgejo
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:30:41
There seems to be a lot of fragmentation in the different repos regarding docsbuilder.sh.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:30:45
Fewer places to maintain
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:31:04
Christian Strauf: This is inevitable because of how the repo has been maintained over several years, but we can make steps to help teams update when moving to Forge
<@hricky:fedora.im>
13:31:04
It should be possible to build container images in Fedora Forge using the new Konflux cluster, though. But that's kind of off topic. π
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:31:10
It's not good that it's actually possible to have this kind of fragmentation.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:31:38
It might be neat if the script had some update-checker functionality in it
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:31:52
But the main goal should be figuring out how to build things in Forgejo
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:31:57
I think we need a volunteer to go down this route
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:32:05
I would put the script and the container stuff into its own repo that should be a submodule in all other docs repois.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:32:05
And figure out how to do this container registry stuff in Forgejo.
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:32:07
I would put the script and the container stuff into its own repo that should be a submodule in all other docs repos.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:32:28
You would be surprised how much git submodules are not updated π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:32:38
It is a more advanced git skill
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:33:15
That may be, but leaving it as it is won't solve the fragmentation. With a submodule, all repos are on the same old version at least. :)
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:33:24
The idea is to have a runner keep them updated. There's a different ticket for that, I really want to move these configs, the docsbuilder script, etc. into submodules because the current situation is ridiculous
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:33:26
!halp Forgejo appears to have the functionality of building containers in a container registry on the platform itself. This may or may not be set up on Fedora Forge already. We need a volunteer to explore this further and evaluate what our options are.
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:33:35
With a makefile this can be made easy though
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:33:54
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/tickets/issues/17
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:33:56
I see. It is definitely a different topic from what we are discussing now, but probably one worth revisiting in detail
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:34:37
I have another repo with content and design assets that has a Makefile, and I think I might be the only person who ever runs the Makefile in this repo, because most of the people interacting with it are not developers.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:34:50
This sort of ties into the past discussion about beginner-friendliness
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:34:53
Yes, that's always the crux.
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:35:29
But not having the build system in a submodule leads to the chaos we have right now. :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:36:00
However, I do not think we are going to solve the major issue of docs organization and workflows now. We should focus this tightly on the CI image for Antora, and how we can get this updated.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:36:13
Is anyone willing to volunteer on this adventure into Forgejo CI and container registries?
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:36:24
From where I stand, the docsbuilder.sh script could update the submodule on-the-fly when previewing. This keeps people from pushing old versions to the repo they're working on.
<@hricky:fedora.im>
13:36:38
I can do that.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:36:45
I think we might be getting one step ahead of ourselves until the container image is figured out
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:37:02
Great, thanks Hristo Marinov! Is the next Docs Team meeting enough time to prepare an update on your findings?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:37:39
(that is, May 5th)
<@hricky:fedora.im>
13:38:27
Yes, I think two weeks are enough and if not, I can continue investigation after the next meeting.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:38:53
Awesome, thanks Hristo Marinov
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:39:03
!action @hricky Test out container registries on Forgejo. Explore how to build containers and publish them in Forgejo container registries via a Forgejo Actions CI pipeline. See if it is possible to locate the Containerfile used to build the custom Fedora Docs UI kit, and if this can be imported into Fedora Forge.
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:39:12
Does it make sense that you update https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/tickets/issues/19 ? I think that during your investigation you will get more insight than what I have gathered from looking at the issue for a few minutes.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:39:17
!info Aiming to have an update/follow-up on this at the next Docs Team meeting on 5 May 2026
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:39:54
From a team perspective, I think this is the main ticket we are tracking for this work? If that is what you mean.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:39:59
AFK for 120 seconds
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:40:06
That being said, I'd be happy to help, however, I'll be away for business several times before May 5th and don't know if I have enough time.
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:40:24
It feels like it is.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:40:37
Alright, let's move on then
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:41:00
!topic Docs Graveyard
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:42:34
So, this is more of an announcement than anything. I haven't opened a ticket for it yet but I will soon. We have this issue where we have a ton of old docs (some of them even still in DocBook, from before the migration to ASCIIDoc/Antora) that are still in pagure. Pagure is going down, but it might make sense to preserve them - but on the other hand we don't want them in the main docs forgejo organization, they'd clog up the repo list.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:43:23
So I'm going to request a second docs org. I'd love to name it the "docs graveyard" (or "docs hell" - where all the naughty docs go), but I think I'll keep it normal and just call it "docs-archive" :)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:43:52
+1 from me. In lieu of not having a folder feature for repos like GitLab had, I think this is the most sensible solution we have
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:44:03
But every repo should be archived here, without exception
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:44:23
There should be no write activity in this org, except for maybe updating a README with an explanation, if someone has time/interest to do that
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:44:44
Archived meaning, the archived feature in Forgejo for a repo
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:44:55
Yeah, I might do that as I migrate. The READMEs I mean.
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:45:18
Anyway. I wanted to mention another thing I forgot in the agenda
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:45:40
!topic https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-fp-o/issues/23
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:45:58
Aha, yeah
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:46:33
This is probably for Justin Wheeler, I'm not sure how busy you are right now with Flock prep. Does it make sense to just update the readmes as Venefilyn suggests in the comments?
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:46:59
Well, readmes and scripts
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:47:03
Oh, huh, let me re-read
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:47:30
The README for the Antora builder or the individual docs repos?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:47:47
Do all of the scripts need updates too, for the SHA256 support?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:48:00
I am able to build the docs locally with the script, AFAICT
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:49:18
Yes! No action needed atm, left a comment there
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:49:25
In short, if you pre-download the sources you're fine
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:49:38
https://forge.fedoraproject.org/docs/docs-fp-o/src/branch/prod/build-scripts
<@venefilyn:matrix.org>
13:49:38
Which is what our script here does:
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:50:56
Venefilyn: Could you please make a PR for the readme to note that?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:53:01
!info This issue is almost entirely resolved. By pre-fetching the git repositories, we avoid the compatibility issue in the build pipeline with SHA256 git repositories.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:53:18
!agreed Thanks Venefilyn for figuring this out and coming up with the fix! π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:54:08
!action @venefilyn Open a Pull Request against the Fedora Docs Antora builder README to add a note about the workaround, so we don't forget later how we solved this problem / why we pre-fetch the repositories
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:09
!topic Open floor
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:13
Only five minutes left π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:55:19
Anyone else have any other topics?
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:55:35
Is there a process for taking inventory of existing docs and deciding whether they need reworking / updating or whether they need to go to docs-archive?
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:55:49
Or is it basically "best effort" and if you see something, you say something?
<@theprogram:fedora.im>
13:56:10
The quick docs review could include this review
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:56:13
I think it is best-effort. A process would be nice.
<@pg-tips:fedora.im>
13:56:24
For QuickDocs and the SysAdmin guide we've kind of done this
<@pg-tips:fedora.im>
13:56:35
in the context of analysing and making recommendations for the future state
<@korora:fedora.im>
13:57:08
the only thing i have is that Eli and I continue to make progress on the local authoring guide. (it's a bit ocnvoluted as there is a 17 hour time difference between the two of us.) I think we are getting close though (I will, fully admit that Eli has done the bulk of the actual work and I have mainly been verifying the info)
<@pg-tips:fedora.im>
13:57:16
I think a process is really important, so we can have assurance that we aren't serving obsolete docs to users
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:57:45
Can we put this on the agenda for May 5th?
<@korora:fedora.im>
13:58:13
I bet obsolete docs would taste stale...
<@cstrauf:fedora.im>
13:58:16
(need to run in 2 min. sharp; sorry)
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
13:58:40
Will do
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
13:58:55
jflory7 has already given cookies to korora during the F43 timeframe
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:59:02
Happy to hear this!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
13:59:34
!info Progress is going steady on the local authoring guide. @korora and @egret are working on this together. It is reaching a finishing point where it will soon be ready for team review.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:00:02
!info Requested to discuss the topic of reviewing obsolete/outdated content and how we act on that in the next Docs Team meeting.
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:00:15
I think that covers it?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:00:19
Anything else?
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:00:23
We are right on the hour.
<@korora:fedora.im>
14:00:26
our next steps (which I'm going to work on today) is getting it converted to ASCIIDoc and then merged from our forks and then polished and pushed up to... whatever happens before main
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:00:42
Petr Bokoc: BTW, I'm happy to do the post-meeting Fedora Discussion and ticket updates since you have a few other actions already
<@egret:fedora.im>
14:00:46
Thanks everyone
<@pbokoc:fedora.im>
14:01:05
That would be nice, thanks!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:01:06
π₯
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
14:01:17
theprogram has already given cookies to pbokoc during the F43 timeframe
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
14:01:28
theprogram gave a cookie to egret. They now have 3 cookies, 3 of which were obtained in the Fedora 43 release cycle
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:01:32
!action @jflory7 Post a meeting summary on Fedora Discussion and ticket updates for all discussed tickets in today's meeting
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
14:01:33
theprogram has already given cookies to korora during the F43 timeframe
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:01:46
EOF from me π
<@theprogram:fedora.im>
14:02:07
Thank you Master Controller
<@theprogram:fedora.im>
14:02:16
(TRON ref)
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:26
π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:30
This time it was Petr!
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:34
But I will do the honors
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:37
See y'all next time π
<@jflory7:fedora.im>
14:02:39
!endmeeting