15:38:36 <randomuser> #startmeeting docs.fp.o status check
15:38:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Aug 11 15:38:36 2014 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:38:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:38:39 <yruseva> sorry :)
15:38:46 <rkratky> let's recap first
15:38:47 * randomuser winks
15:38:53 <yruseva> oki
15:39:25 <rkratky> we've got a basic mockup, and it's in css, too
15:39:36 <randomuser> #meetingname docs.fp.o status check
15:39:36 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs.fp.o_status_check'
15:40:12 <yruseva> yep
15:40:14 <randomuser> link?
15:40:21 <rkratky> i've found what needs to be fixed in the html files (at least i hope i have)
15:40:41 <rkratky> https://rkratky.fedorapeople.org/docsweb/mockup/en-US/index.html
15:40:54 <rkratky> it's pretty much the same as last time
15:41:03 <rkratky> with yruseva's touches
15:41:16 <randomuser> it reflows nicely
15:41:21 <rkratky> sh's got two more tho
15:41:27 <yruseva> yes
15:41:31 <rkratky> ...she's...
15:41:31 <yruseva> but
15:41:34 <randomuser> i like to put two windows side by side and the old site doesn't play nice with that
15:41:51 <yruseva> what I need is basically a better understanding over what we're fighting for :)
15:42:11 <rkratky> however, we have a big question...
15:42:23 <randomuser> okay...
15:43:03 <yruseva> shall I say it, at least from my side? :)
15:43:37 * yruseva needs a brief refresh
15:43:50 <rkratky> the publican-generated site is kinda unwieldy... how about we create a nice and simple landing site and relegate the publican stuff (vanilla) to a sub-site - just for docs display?
15:44:14 * yruseva nods
15:45:23 <randomuser> well, i'm concerned that it might be more of a maintenance burden that way, since publican is rebuilding the TOC every time we publish
15:45:45 <randomuser> or are you thinking more of a splash.html that you'd click through?
15:46:10 <rkratky> yes, but don't really need the toc on the landing site, do we?
15:46:31 <randomuser> how will people navigate to documents without it?
15:46:59 <rkratky> i'm thinking a static page that'd link to the publican-generated toc
15:47:04 * randomuser will brb, coffee refill required
15:48:20 <yruseva> I am not sure about the back-end, my concern was that having a whole guide framed into the website is a bit odd - if only for style reasons
15:49:55 <randomuser> okay, back (still brewing, argh)
15:50:28 <randomuser> A splash page sounds fine to me - we can just tell the server to default to $file.html instead of index.html
15:51:06 <randomuser> this doesn't replace the index with the TOC though, if I understand you correctly
15:52:07 <randomuser> yruseva, you're talking about the current landing page copy ?
15:52:31 <rkratky> it doesn't, but that's fine. i'd leave the toc index unchanged, plain publican
15:53:37 <yruseva> randomuser, I think so..
15:53:38 <rkratky> coz, the publican brand -- whatever it will be in the future -- will never really fit in with our fedora-styled web
15:54:11 * randomuser nods
15:54:22 * yruseva nods
15:54:40 <randomuser> yeah, i know what you mean - it *might* be feasible to get it more like the other sites, but not without a lot of work
15:55:13 <randomuser> If you want to build a landing page, I'm all for it
15:55:24 <rkratky> so, i thought it might be easier (both maintenance-wise and on the eyes) to separate the actual docs from the website of the docs team
15:56:03 <randomuser> Like, some quick links, welcome copy, and a "click here for all guides" somewhere?
15:56:15 <rkratky> exactly
15:56:46 <randomuser> rkratky, have you looked at the publican sqlite db?
15:57:01 <randomuser> if you wanted to get really ambitious, you could build a toc from that
15:57:24 <rkratky> from a distance... i got confused pretty fast
15:57:47 <randomuser> ok, let's table that idea
15:58:00 <rkratky> heh, it's tempting, but not in our current timeframe
15:58:18 <randomuser> i can work on it in the future and maybe come up with something that's not so entirely embarrasing
15:58:30 <randomuser> s/so//
15:58:57 <rkratky> i think the publican toc is not that bad - it just needs to sit on its own
15:59:16 <randomuser> so we're mostly happy with the CSS for the index as is, and we're adding a splash page
15:59:28 <randomuser> or as you've made it, i mean
16:00:01 <rkratky> i'd even consider removing all changes and leaving it totally plain.
16:00:42 <randomuser> eh.. it's somewhat like other fedora stuff, i don't want to throw that work away
16:01:37 <rkratky> meddling with overrides is eventually going to fall on our heads when a new version of publican comes out, for instance
16:02:52 <randomuser> I'd be surprised if a new version of publican invalidated our brand, though
16:03:15 <randomuser> we haven't really done *any* maintenance to it, or needed to, even publican 2->publican4
16:04:27 <rkratky> i guess, you're right. well, either way, can we talk about what we want/need on the front side? yruseva needs a starting point.
16:04:34 <randomuser> one thing we *should* salvage is the language redirect
16:05:19 <randomuser> you're thinking about landing page design, yruseva ?
16:05:20 <rkratky> language: true that. i was not able to get it working locally at all.
16:05:26 <yruseva> yes, I've got questions about that - like how much do you want to change the menu for the redesign?
16:05:39 <yruseva> like cleaning the categories
16:06:00 <rkratky> yruseva, i'd go for a 'from-scratch' approach
16:06:02 <yruseva> liek Fedora Draft Documentation is unused
16:06:25 <randomuser> we use the draft category
16:06:32 <pbokoc> yeah, the cookbook was in there
16:06:43 <yruseva> oh, sorry :)
16:06:55 <yruseva> so, are you planning on revising the categories?
16:07:02 <pbokoc> but then again the menu could use a revision
16:07:06 <randomuser> the categories are applied to the docbook source, it's not really a design thing
16:07:08 <rkratky> let's decide what needs to be linked from the landing page
16:07:16 <yruseva> can I use the same 7 ones to play with?
16:07:23 <randomuser> yes
16:07:27 <yruseva> ok
16:07:50 <yruseva> and we have the slideshow, the language drop-down menu..
16:08:29 <randomuser> the 'fedora contributor documentation' might end up leading to one book that's referring to other content sources, as pkovar is leaning towards
16:08:34 <randomuser> but that's a different conversation
16:08:44 <yruseva> a big "become a writer" button?
16:08:50 <yruseva> aha
16:08:51 <randomuser> +1
16:09:24 <randomuser> putting things like the beginners guide and documentation guide in a separate category, ultimately, is an interesting idea
16:10:15 <randomuser> yruseva, i'm a little lost - rkratky was talking about putting a splash page in front of the current landing page, and you're talking about redesigning the current landing page further?
16:11:01 <yruseva> um, I am using it as a starting point, because I need some content to start with
16:12:04 <yruseva> like I need to know what goes in there :)
16:13:34 <yruseva> ah, sorry, I got your question - yes
16:14:00 <yruseva> for example, I like this one - http://fedoramagazine.org/
16:14:30 <yruseva> randomuser, I overdosed on coffee again :)
16:14:38 <bexelbie> yruseva, that is wordpress
16:14:43 <bexelbie> and has a nice stats package
16:14:44 * randomuser gulps down more, trying to catch up
16:15:05 <randomuser> i'm pretty sure we don't want to move to wordpress
16:15:50 <randomuser> yruseva, still a little confused - can you give me some context on what you're looking for?
16:17:12 <yruseva> aaahh
16:17:45 <randomuser> like, what elements we need in the landing/nav page, or in the splash page?
16:18:19 * yruseva thought it was the same thing O.o
16:18:24 <bexelbie> randomuser, it's very sexy :P
16:19:10 <yruseva> yes, I wanted to know what elements we need in the landing page - the slideshow, what categories, menus, etc
16:19:30 <randomuser> bexelbie, i think it comes with some issues, iirc fedoramagazine isn't allowed on fp.o infrastructure
16:19:52 <randomuser> ah, ok
16:20:02 <rkratky> yruseva, i thought a new landing page would lead to the nav page
16:20:08 <bexelbie> randomuser, I am not proposing a change .. but it would support the idea of thinking in a splash page way as you all are now talking
16:20:59 <yruseva> rkratky, like..what would they have?
16:21:32 * yruseva is lost, too
16:21:52 <rkratky> nav page would be pretty much what we have now. the landing page would be brand new
16:22:24 <randomuser> yruseva, on the nav page, we want to give people a way to navigate to all the documents.  I think the breadcrumbs thing at the top isn't really useful, and I'd probably prefer expanding the list of current guides from the list on the left and leaving the primary pane for more descriptive content
16:22:43 <randomuser> but I don't know how much of that we can easily do with publican, or in the given timeframe
16:23:20 <randomuser> as far as i can tell, it looks like what I had anticipated has already been done :/
16:25:46 <yruseva> aha
16:26:34 <randomuser> one thing that i notice, layout wise, is the a static banner at the top with the logo on fp.o and fedoramagazine
16:26:41 <randomuser> we don't have that bit of whitespace
16:27:20 <randomuser> and, what about the in-document toc, rkratky ?
16:27:53 <rkratky> randomuser, that orks, afaict
16:27:58 <rkratky> works
16:28:33 <randomuser> sure, just curious if you were planning on re-working it
16:29:43 <rkratky> in what way? do you mean the toc at the beginning of books?
16:29:53 <randomuser> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/docs-backend//en-US/Fedora/20/html/Release_Notes/index.html
16:29:59 <randomuser> at the bottom of the page there
16:30:53 <rkratky> yes, i like it the way it is. do you think it needs something?
16:31:25 <randomuser> the theme could be tweaked - maybe - and there's a block element that appears at the top of the page when you expand that doesn't do anything
16:33:06 <rkratky> which element?
16:34:27 <randomuser> <div id=floatingtoc class="visible"> a big white box that pushes down the rest of the body
16:34:44 <randomuser> it's child is the actual menu that comes up from the bottom
16:36:26 <randomuser> ...not terribly important, it just doesn't look great
16:36:51 <randomuser> what's our plan of action now, yruseva and rkratky ?
16:37:09 <rkratky> hmm, when i open the page, it's class=visible
16:37:59 <rkratky> randomuser, i'm mostly worried about the existing html
16:38:17 <rkratky> if that doesn't work, all else is secondary
16:38:30 <randomuser> okay, what needs to be done with it?
16:40:18 <rkratky> do you have the staging_site at hand?
16:41:50 <randomuser> I don't, actually, i'm on a work laptop that hasn't been set up for much fp.o access
16:41:59 * randomuser frowns
16:42:14 <randomuser> I'll see how long the battery will hold out on mine
16:45:15 <randomuser> oka, i'm in, rkratky - what am I looking for
16:45:37 <rkratky> en_US/index.html
16:45:53 <rkratky> (or any other lang.)
16:45:57 <randomuser> ok
16:46:11 <rkratky> this file needs db4.css from the main dir.
16:46:55 <randomuser> ah, and there's no link to it
16:47:08 <rkratky> nope
16:48:26 <randomuser> odd, it is referenced in splash.html
16:49:27 <randomuser> i guess that method of loading css doesn't work well :P
16:49:36 <randomuser> i'll look at changing the brand for that
16:50:02 <randomuser> #action randomuser to fix brand so db4.css gets linked from $LANG/index.html
16:50:04 <randomuser> what else?
16:50:05 <rkratky> i'm really suspicious of that
16:50:24 <rkratky> it seems to me strange that nobody would notice before
16:50:59 <randomuser> we haven't played with this stuff in a long, long time i think
16:51:03 <randomuser> first time for me
16:51:26 <rkratky> that's it. tiny.
16:51:48 <randomuser> okay, i can do that
16:52:46 <randomuser> how much more work on the css and landing page layout will you want to do?
16:52:56 <randomuser> (and yeah, i remember you said none :)
16:53:26 <rkratky> it really depends on what yruseva comes up with.
16:53:47 <yruseva> I'll try to keep it simple
16:54:18 <rkratky> my opinion: work on the static landing and leave the publican nav. stuff as it is
16:54:47 <yruseva> alright
16:55:12 <yruseva> in the meantime, if you think of anything else to be added, I'm around in the channel during the week
16:55:46 <yruseva> to recap - the 7 categories, languages drop down menu, some nice big badge "become a writer", ..
16:56:18 <rkratky> yruseva, let's meet to talk about it tomorrow. say 3pm?
16:56:24 <randomuser> well, the new splash page can be whatever you want
16:56:52 <yruseva> rkratky, yep!
16:57:10 <yruseva> randomuser, right, ok
16:57:33 <randomuser> what can I do for now, besides fix the css link?
16:59:54 <rkratky> well, how do we deploy it, once it's ready?
17:00:58 <randomuser> we apply your changes to the relevant packages then push them to koji
17:02:21 <randomuser> and the server grabs whatever it sees in koji
17:03:50 <rkratky> ok, i'm going to have to leave that to you :-)
17:04:49 * yruseva needs to run
17:04:50 <randomuser> sure, just send me the files whenever you're ready for it
17:04:56 <yruseva> anything else I need to know?
17:05:08 <randomuser> yes
17:05:37 <randomuser> we had penciled in this week for deployment - we're pushing that back a week for further redesign now, right?
17:07:14 <rkratky> considering that, wouldn't it be safer to try whether what we have works?
17:07:33 <randomuser> sure
17:07:54 <randomuser> i can't do the deployment off the cuff anyway
17:08:00 <rkratky> if it does, we can screw around some more. if not, it's high time to get it working and the rest can wait
17:08:15 * randomuser nods
17:08:55 <randomuser> is everything in your fedorapeople space, rkratky ?
17:08:55 <yruseva> ok
17:09:06 <rkratky> well, yes
17:09:32 <rkratky> do you want me to push the ovrrides file to the git repo?
17:09:56 <randomuser> which repo?
17:09:59 <yruseva> I'll join back from home ~1h
17:11:07 <rkratky> tools.git
17:11:07 * yruseva looks around
17:11:13 <randomuser> ah, sure
17:11:46 <randomuser> rkratky, you could use tools.git or fedorapeople.org:/srv/groups/docs/ too
17:12:30 <rkratky> didn't know about that one
17:13:23 <rkratky> i'm kinda worried that what works locally will blow up once on the server - is there a way for me to see what it does once it's there?
17:14:31 <randomuser> yeah, it will be at https://admin.fedoraproject.org/docs-backend//en-US/Fedora/index.html
17:15:11 <randomuser> that passes through to docs-backend
17:19:34 <randomuser> Okay, so we have a plan
17:19:44 <randomuser> I'll work on deploying what you share
17:20:12 <randomuser> rkratky, you and yruseva are going to continue the valiant effort to make the thing look better
17:21:05 <rkratky> ok and thanks for the guidance
17:21:28 <randomuser> you're welcome, and thank you!
17:22:18 <rkratky> i pushed the commit. let's see what it does
17:22:21 <jhradilek> Good job, guys and gals.
17:23:27 <rkratky> randomuser, i'm usually around fedora-docs, so ping me anytime if it needs fixing
17:23:51 <randomuser> rkratky, cool, I will - and when I have it deployed for you to look at
17:24:13 <randomuser> probably... tomorrow or Wednesday
17:24:21 <rkratky> ok
17:26:46 <randomuser> woohoo, progress!
17:26:53 <randomuser> #endmeeting