14:31:47 <acozine> #startmeeting Documentation Working Group aka DaWGs
14:31:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug 13 14:31:47 2019 UTC.
14:31:47 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
14:31:47 <zodbot> The chair is acozine. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:31:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:31:47 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_working_group_aka_dawgs'
14:31:51 <acozine> who's around?
14:32:13 <tributarian> me
14:32:21 <acozine> #chair tributarian
14:32:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine tributarian
14:32:22 <felixfontein> just a little
14:32:26 <acozine> thanks for the agenda item
14:32:38 <acozine> #chair felixfontein
14:32:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine felixfontein tributarian
14:33:01 <acozine> gundalow: you joining in today?
14:33:48 <acozine> alongchamps: andersson007_ belfast77 cyberpear dag dfed jmnk_ you folks actively here?
14:34:13 <alongchamps> I am!
14:34:15 <acozine> madonius: mrproper orthanc Pilou shaps theo-o Xaroth8 zoredache how about you folks?
14:34:20 <acozine> #chair alongchamps
14:34:20 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine alongchamps felixfontein tributarian
14:34:28 <acozine> welcome everybody!
14:34:50 <alongchamps> o/
14:34:58 <acozine> #topic PR 60492
14:35:32 <acozine> submitted by tributarian - it addresses one of our more ancient docs issues: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/12533
14:35:40 <acozine> PR link: https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/60492
14:35:51 <acozine> first off, thanks tributarian for picking up the issue!
14:36:03 <tributarian> You are welcome
14:38:09 <acozine> I confess that in my sysadmin career with Ansible, I didn't make much use of tags, so this isn't as familiar to me
14:39:15 <bcoca> i normally use tags on my 'diagnossis playbooks' .. my config ones are discrete enough that i dont need to use tags
14:39:34 <tributarian> I use them all time
14:39:53 <tributarian> I tend to use them on the main playbook that assigns various roles.
14:40:07 <acozine> excellent!
14:40:12 <dfed> I always saw tags as a dangerous introduction of dependency trees, however I use them heavily developing lockdown
14:40:23 <tributarian> The current functionality of --list-tags isn't really useful vs --list-tasks which also displays tags.
14:40:24 <dfed> especially ffor testing
14:40:28 <felixfontein> I also use them all the time, though I've never used --skip-tags or --list-tasks
14:40:35 <acozine> dangerous and useful are often closely related
14:40:41 <acozine> #chair dfed
14:40:41 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine alongchamps dfed felixfontein tributarian
14:40:51 <felixfontein> if a feature isn't dangerous, it isn't powerful enough ;)
14:40:52 <dfed> morrning
14:41:02 <tributarian> felixfontein: indeed
14:41:24 <tributarian> I'm sure I
14:41:33 <tributarian> 've done some stupid things with them.
14:41:52 <acozine> tributarian: I noticed you made your PR "related to" the issue, not "fixes" or "closes" - do you think there's work left to be done on the issue?
14:42:18 <tributarian> From what I could tell, the issue is a 'works as expected in the current devel'
14:42:35 <tributarian> But the documentation wasn't  clear.
14:43:00 <tributarian> I think the issue can be closed.
14:43:06 <acozine> awesome
14:43:25 <tributarian> I put testing output in the issue. That output is what really closes it.
14:43:41 <acozine> the notes on the issue are clear and complete, so anyone who finds that issue should understand the current state of the code
14:43:49 <acozine> and the docs updates look good to me
14:44:39 <acozine> I'm +1 to merging the PR and closing the issue
14:44:50 <acozine> other votes?
14:45:49 <alongchamps> I'm +1, more clarity for something that's particular like this is a good thing
14:46:03 <felixfontein> I'm +1 on merging, +0 on closing (since I haven't really looked at it :) )
14:46:26 <dfed> merge, close and let's all have a beer.
14:46:38 <bcoca> dfed++
14:46:41 <acozine> it's a bit early for the beer, but . . . I'll take a rain check
14:46:56 <dfed> I mean it's perfectly normal time to have a beer in Australia.
14:46:58 <bcoca> its 5pm somewhere (benefit of international and remote workforce)
14:47:08 <alongchamps> it's almost lunchtime for me, so close enough
14:47:12 <dfed> bam
14:47:14 <tributarian> There is a country song about it being 5 o'clock somewhere
14:47:16 <acozine> GitHub is having one of its "are you sure?" days
14:47:25 <acozine> I'm trying to merge, but it keeps bouncing back
14:47:35 <acozine> there we go
14:47:54 <bcoca> ^ its new 'clippy' functin in azure cloud (where github is hosted)
14:48:20 <tributarian> yay!
14:48:28 <tributarian> Thank you.
14:48:47 <acozine> #topic open floor
14:49:02 <acozine> felixfontein: shall we look at your latest magnum opus as a group?
14:49:25 <acozine> tributarian: you're welcome, and thank you!
14:50:03 <acozine> oh, FYI, the automated docs build is temporarily down on Jenkins, so updates to `devel` will be delayed
14:50:41 <acozine> also, tributarian if you want that change to show up in the `latest` docs (as soon as the Jenkins job is fixed), feel free to open a backport
14:51:13 <tributarian> acozine: is there a doc on that?
14:51:21 <tributarian> haven't opened a backport before
14:51:38 <acozine> tributarian: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/community/development_process.html#backport-process
14:51:45 <tributarian> thanks
14:52:19 <acozine> #topic module renames for Ansible 2.9
14:53:28 <acozine> we're changing the `cloud_utility_facts` modules to `cloud_utility_info` modules, since the information they return is not, strictly speaking, `ansible_facts`
14:53:48 <acozine> this means there are a lot of renamed modules in 2.9
14:54:06 <acozine> which leads us to https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/60483
14:55:50 <acozine> felixfontein: you alphabetized the list, that's awesome
14:55:50 <felixfontein> acozine: why not :)
14:56:07 <felixfontein> yeah, I thought it would be a lot better readable this way
14:56:12 <acozine> it is, it is
14:56:53 <felixfontein> the diff looks a bit strange partly because of that; I didn't add/remove text, I just moved the list items around and sorted them
14:57:22 <felixfontein> the list items were previously a part of `Noteworthy module changes`, now they are all part of `Renamed modules`
14:58:07 <acozine> yeah, it took me a full read-through to figure out what you were doing
14:58:23 <acozine> it looks much better now, but the diff makes it look like more changes than it really is
14:58:36 <acozine> +1 to merging
15:00:02 <felixfontein> I'm also +1, unsurprisingly ;)
15:00:55 <acozine> heh, glad you're not disavowing your own PR
15:02:28 <acozine> quiet all of a sudden . . .
15:03:19 <cyberpear> (this is why it's helpful to have the discrete manipulations in separate commits)
15:03:34 <acozine> hah! ansibot has added `has_issue` because of the mention on the DaWGs agenda
15:03:41 <felixfontein> cyberpear: true
15:04:27 <acozine> cyberpear: yes, though in this case I think the "just get it over with" approach works fine
15:04:38 <acozine> #chair cyberpear
15:04:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: acozine alongchamps cyberpear dfed felixfontein tributarian
15:04:49 <cyberpear> indeed
15:05:25 <acozine> hearing no objections, I'm merging 60483
15:05:40 <acozine> w00t, merged on the first try
15:05:48 <acozine> GitHub is feeling better, I guess
15:05:58 <acozine> thanks felixfontein
15:06:11 <acozine> #topic open floor
15:06:17 <felixfontein> ah, so it's not just me who sometimes has to try to merge something x times before it works...
15:06:27 <felixfontein> thanks for reviewing and merging!
15:07:06 <acozine> yw, glad to get the porting guide in better shape well ahead of the release
15:07:15 <acozine> oh, speaking of which . . .
15:07:53 <acozine> Dev Freeze for 2.9 release is August 29
15:08:08 <acozine> we can make docs-only changes after that, but not code changes
15:08:28 * cyberpear glad to see a shorter release cycle
15:08:48 <acozine> for anyone here with code PRs in mind (or in flight), keep the deadline front and center!
15:09:05 <felixfontein> still a lot of PRs I need to create and get merged before of that :)
15:09:30 <acozine> felixfontein: yep, it's crunch time
15:09:35 <acozine> 2 weeks and 2 days
15:11:06 <acozine> oh, I have another item to discuss
15:11:12 <acozine> forgot to put it on the agenda
15:11:18 <acozine> #topic changes to tables
15:12:02 <acozine> We've started updating the way we do tables in the documentation
15:12:25 <acozine> abadger1999 started with https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/60148
15:12:55 <acozine> trying to get away from all the `-------+-------` stuff
15:13:11 <acozine> two current open PRs in the same realm of work:
15:13:43 <acozine> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/60177
15:13:50 <acozine> and, slightly more specialized
15:14:09 <acozine> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/60171
15:15:21 <acozine> ultimately it would be great to have a page in the Style Guide that talks about how to create and edit tables in our docs
15:15:26 <tributarian> hmm that's interesting
15:15:56 <acozine> Style Guide main page: https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/dev_guide/style_guide/index.html
15:16:20 <cyberpear> having plain-text docs being more useful w/o processing is always a plus in my book, so these look like good changes
15:17:12 <acozine> thanks cyberpear
15:17:25 <acozine> I will not miss editing the dashes and lines
15:19:08 <acozine> #topic open floor (again)
15:19:27 <acozine> we've got ten minutes left
15:19:45 <acozine> anybody have an issue or PR to highlight? concern to address? question to ask?
15:20:38 <acozine> there are currently 80 open docs PRs, which means we're back on 4 pages on GitHub
15:20:49 <acozine> I try to keep it under 75 / 3 pages
15:21:25 <acozine> all PR reviews, pointers, comments, etc. welcome!
15:23:12 <acozine> samccann will be back next week
15:23:50 <acozine> all right, thanks everybody for talking docs today
15:24:13 <acozine> concerns, questions, comments, etc. welcome in the chat any time
15:24:43 <acozine> agenda items for next week encouraged - add them by adding a comment to https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/389
15:24:58 <acozine> thanks again
15:25:02 <acozine> #endmeeting