15:01:43 <samccann> #startmeeting Documentation Working Group aka DaWGs
15:01:44 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 25 15:01:43 2022 UTC.
15:01:44 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:44 <zodbot> The chair is samccann. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
15:01:44 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:44 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_working_group_aka_dawgs'
15:01:44 <zodbot_> Meeting started Tue Oct 25 15:01:43 2022 UTC.
15:01:44 <zodbot_> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:44 <zodbot_> The chair is samccann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:44 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:45 <zodbot_> The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_working_group_aka_dawgs'
15:01:46 <samccann> heh not at taking over the universe one doc at a time ??
15:01:56 <samccann> @room Meeting time! Who is here to talk the docs?
15:01:57 <DonNaro[m]> that's no laughing matter
15:01:59 <DonNaro[m]> o/
15:02:02 <samccann> heh
15:02:09 <samccann> #chair Don Naro
15:02:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Naro samccann
15:02:09 <zodbot_> Current chairs: Don Naro samccann
15:02:19 <samccann> Raise your ascii hand (o/) to say hi or any other way you want to let us know you are here. And Welcome to any new folks!
15:02:34 <Dule_Martins0383> Hi
15:02:51 <samccann> #chair Dule_Martins#0383
15:02:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Dule_Martins#0383 Naro samccann
15:02:51 <zodbot_> Current chairs: Don Dule_Martins#0383 Naro samccann
15:02:54 <samccann> welcome welcome!
15:03:05 <samccann> briantist: felixfontein around to talk docs today?
15:04:00 <felixfontein> o/
15:04:05 <DonNaro[m]> hi Dule_Martins#0383
15:04:13 <samccann> #chair felixfontein
15:04:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Dule_Martins#0383 Naro felixfontein samccann
15:04:13 <zodbot_> Current chairs: Don Dule_Martins#0383 Naro felixfontein samccann
15:04:16 <Dule_Martins0383> Hi Don
15:04:30 <samccann> Official agenda is https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/643#issuecomment-1282631569
15:04:46 <samccann> #topic Action Item updates:
15:05:31 <samccann> #info in progress - setting up open hours for docs for EMEA
15:06:08 <briantist> o/
15:06:11 <samccann> #info open add a link to a separate intro to the agenda for welcome/here's what you need to know/ etc so newcomers can prepare.
15:06:16 <samccann> #chair briantist
15:06:16 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Dule_Martins#0383 Naro briantist felixfontein samccann
15:06:16 <zodbot_> Current chairs: Don Dule_Martins#0383 Naro briantist felixfontein samccann
15:06:19 <samccann> welcome welcome!
15:07:27 <samccann> #topic Documentation updates
15:07:38 <samccann> Don Naro: did you want to pitch your survey here?
15:09:52 <DonNaro[m]> thanks, yeah. let me find it in all my tabs..
15:10:05 <samccann> heh.. tabs tabs and more tabs!!
15:10:50 * felixfontein has a rather large number of tabs (spread out over a large number of windows)
15:11:24 <DonNaro[m]> #info https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/NKTKV6W
15:11:40 <DonNaro[m]> not sure if the #info tag was necessary there. probably making a right haims of it.
15:12:11 <briantist> yes, I have hundreds of tabs, spread over dozens of windows on each of a bunch of desktops
15:12:28 <DonNaro[m]> but... if you missed the announcement earlier and you're based in EMEA it would be nice to find a day and time that we can hang out and talk all things doc related
15:12:49 <samccann> Info tag is great.
15:12:50 <DonNaro[m]> so add your preference to the survey there and let us / me know
15:13:08 <samccann> Add one more info for what that link is for
15:13:32 <samccann> briantist: i think someone needs to stage an intervention on all those tabs!!
15:14:12 <DonNaro[m]> #info survey is to find a day of the week and time for DaWGS EMEA docs open hour. a chance for contributors and interested parties to hang out more informally and just talk docs and writing.
15:14:36 <briantist> you can't close them! some of those tabs are over a year old!
15:14:56 <felixfontein> how will DaWGs EMEA differ from this DaWGs meeting?
15:15:05 <DonNaro[m]> they say when you bring the thunder it's easy to get lost in the storm. I wonder what it means when you find it's easy to get lost in the tabs?
15:15:50 <DonNaro[m]> felixfontein: more writing focused and less doc operations for one
15:16:11 <samccann> felixfontein: yeah, more focused on writing, help with PRs, help with anoyone just starting to contribute to docs etc.
15:16:21 <samccann> and since Don is EMEA - just made sense to try that  timezone
15:17:31 <DonNaro[m]> I'm hoping that if we find a time in EMEA it will be helpful for a lot of the recent contributors who might find this time a bit late in the day
15:18:46 <felixfontein> I won't take part in the survey since I'm more interested in this meeting, but I'll probably hang out in that meeting as well (assuming I have time) :)
15:18:51 <samccann> so I see it as less a meeting, more a time that at least Don will be around and online  to answer questions etc
15:19:22 <samccann> unless it shifts/morphs etc
15:20:48 <DonNaro[m]> yeah definitely more casual than this. I don't really plan to use the meeting bot. but it would be great to hang out and talk docs with you, felixfontein
15:21:14 <felixfontein> (sorry, just switched from desk to couch... I declared my working day to be over :) )
15:21:35 <samccann> heh couchOps!
15:21:52 <felixfontein> yeah, meeting wasn't the right word, but then meeting when related to ansible has a different meaning to me than meeting related to job ;)
15:22:09 <samccann> cuz we're the cool kids!
15:22:19 <felixfontein> hehe exactly :D
15:22:38 <samccann> Don Naro: did you want to announce the survey on the bullhorn?
15:23:08 <DonNaro[m]> I pinged newsbot in the social room this morning. that's it, right?
15:23:26 <DonNaro[m]> it's been a while since I got on the bullhorn
15:23:39 <felixfontein> yep
15:23:59 <samccann> cool cool
15:24:33 <samccann> Dule_Martins#0383: - can you put the link and description into one of the discord channels so the writers there will notice and vote?
15:26:15 <Dule_Martins0383> I'm on transit
15:26:21 <Dule_Martins0383> Give me a minute
15:26:30 <samccann> ok no rush. When you land someplace is fine
15:26:53 <Dule_Martins0383> Link to what please
15:27:11 <felixfontein> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/NKTKV6W
15:27:26 <felixfontein> the survey for the DaWGs EMEA open hours
15:27:46 <Dule_Martins0383> This?
15:28:15 <Dule_Martins0383> I can do that and also announce the survey
15:28:26 <samccann> yes that would be great Dule_Martins#0383 thanks
15:29:25 <Dule_Martins0383> Don Nero try signing up with discord so we can start the community discord radio about docs
15:29:49 <Dule_Martins0383> Meeting like this can also be discord in the audio channel on Discord
15:31:05 <samccann> ok so ansible 7 and core moving along  toward release
15:31:30 <samccann> #info Ansible 7 alpha 2 should be out soon and will stage at http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible/7/index.html and http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible-core/2.14/
15:31:55 <samccann> so we're keeping the docs updated in case ...somethign happens :-)
15:32:58 <felixfontein> ah, regarding the currently broken filter plugin docs, does anyone know whether ansible.utils will have a new release soon? the filter docs should be fixed there, but their last release was in March
15:33:29 <samccann> we can try pinging the team internally
15:34:43 <felixfontein> on http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible/7/collections/index_test.html it's mainly ansible.utils missing, in http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible/7/collections/index_filter.html some more collections have missing docs
15:35:05 <felixfontein> maybe some of them already fixed that and released new versions, I guess we will find out once 7.0.0a2 is out :)
15:35:16 <samccann> oh was about to say they fixed it in the repo, but I see YOU fixed it in the repo felixfontein !
15:35:39 <felixfontein> yes, I even had some more impovements, but they were not compatible with their tests
15:37:40 <samccann> ok I'll ping qalthos
15:38:01 <Qalthos> 👀
15:38:12 <felixfontein> :)
15:38:43 <samccann> oh shoot!
15:38:55 <Qalthos> utils is in a weird place right now. It will have a release as soon as we can make one is the best I can say right now.
15:38:59 <samccann> here I thought I wasn't pinging you direclty Qalthos ...but anyway, ignore the slack message
15:39:16 <felixfontein> Qalthos: will it be a major release, or a minor/bugfix one?
15:40:20 <Qalthos> Looks like we're in line for a minor release
15:40:55 <felixfontein> that sounds good, since that will also eventually end up in Ansible 7 if the release happens after the feature freeze :)
15:41:12 <samccann> coolness thanks!
15:42:30 <samccann> #info archiving 2.3 docs ready for merging. Redirects (with most module redirects removed for pastebin size limits) at https://pastebin.com/Hs7dBVSu
15:43:05 <samccann> Those are the redirects (with most of the module ones snipped out) if anyone wants to take a look. The actual repo is still private so can't share the PR.
15:43:10 <samccann> The redirects are in place already on http://docs.testing.ansible.com/ansible/2.3/index.html. Were tested by hacking the url for docs.ansible.com/ansible/2.3/xxx into the testing url above.
15:43:19 <samccann> and if anyone wants to poke around some more ^^
15:43:31 <samccann> I said in bullhorn and reddit that we'd turn these beasties on in a week.
15:43:52 <felixfontein> cool!
15:44:46 <felixfontein> any news on semantic markup btw?
15:44:53 * samccann sees she has some posts to reply to on reddit
15:45:03 <felixfontein> (just came up my mind when I saw that branch in antsibull-docs)
15:45:10 <samccann> felixfontein: sorry haven't seen any movement on that internal JIRA issue
15:45:51 <felixfontein> hmm
15:45:58 <samccann> I'll bring it up with my manager and see if he can rattle any cages etc
15:46:04 <felixfontein> thanks!
15:47:19 <samccann> on the plus side, someone was very grateful for the full spec you wrote on it all felixfontein ! so it's not ignored
15:48:30 <samccann> #info Reminder on new project tracking board for Ansible docs- https://github.com/orgs/ansible/projects/94
15:48:30 <samccann> #info Help on issues always welcome :-)
15:48:43 <samccann> #topic doctools
15:49:04 <samccann> felixfontein: do we need another update to antsibull-docs for Ansible 7/core 2.14 or are we good w/ the current version?
15:50:21 <samccann> We're at 1.6.1 right now
15:50:24 <felixfontein> samccann: it mainly depends on whether we want the other new features in or not (code formatting for all values, such as choice entries, defaults, and samples; and bugfix to improve left column too big when there are too many aliases for a function)
15:50:46 <felixfontein> ah, and listing the supported ansible-core versions on the collection index page
15:51:02 <felixfontein> https://github.com/ansible-community/antsibull-docs/blob/main/CHANGELOG.rst#v170 basically, though quite a few entries there have no relevance for the docs build
15:51:30 <felixfontein> I did prepare a PR to bump the version, https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/79071, so in case we want it I can make it a non-draft
15:51:33 <samccann> What do folks think? We may be able to get one more update. I mean I could ask anyway
15:52:15 <felixfontein> I guess the next update after that (if it happens) would be for devel only (without backport)
15:53:00 <samccann> yeah right now this should be visible on devel, at least on core devel. That one has open requirements file. I keep forgetting if devel for Ansible has open requirements or not!
15:54:03 <samccann> so I'm leaning toward yes, let's get this in while we have the chance
15:54:39 <felixfontein> ansible-core devel uses 1.7.0, while ansible devel uses 1.6.1
15:54:45 <samccann> worse that happens is core says no, too late... and it goes in after release and only applies to devel
15:54:53 <samccann> yeah thanks for checking
15:55:17 <samccann> #action samccann to test https://github.com/ansible/ansible/pull/79071 and verify we can merge/backport for 2.14
15:55:41 <samccann> Well before we discus Ansible devel, I'd like a quick open floor since we have 5 min left
15:55:45 <samccann> #topic Open Floor
15:55:57 <samccann> Anyone have something to bring up in docsland? Here's the chance!
15:58:23 <samccann> ok then... about Ansible devel requirements - I left that tied to CI, but do we want it doing open requirements like devel core?
15:58:53 <samccann> I think the only reason I didn't do it was because we can see (almost) everything on core-devel with its open requirements today
15:58:54 <felixfontein> I think it's a good idea to have at least one of the two devels fixed to CI
15:59:48 <samccann> ok. Today it's core.  The drawback - can't see the new thing you did with the ansible-core version in the collection docs...cuz it's only builtin.  But we can stage that on test anyway
15:59:53 <felixfontein> also some collections refer to the ansible devel docsite, while probably none refer to the ansible-core devel docsite, so it's better to have some sense of stability for ansible devel than for ansible-core devel :)
16:00:22 <samccann> yeah that was my thoughts as well. People expect stability in devel Ansible docs.
16:00:30 <bcoca> we chose 'devel' to indicate 'lack of stability'
16:00:50 <samccann> #info we keep Ansible devel docs tied to CI requirements for 'stability' while ansible-core devel have open requirements where we can detect problems for most things
16:01:07 <felixfontein> bcoca: that's why I said 'some sense of stability' :D
16:01:29 <samccann> bcoca: yeah and if we had only one docsite, I'd agree - keep requirements open. But since we have  the liberty of two, keeping the one more people go to as somewhat stable seems the better choice
16:02:03 <bcoca> the issue is that both share a lot of content
16:02:12 <samccann> ok we're just a bit over. Anything else to discuss before we end meeting?
16:03:26 <samccann> bcoca: yeah and if I had my 'druthers, maybe we'd have a 'language' docset, a collection docset, a dev/contributor docset and all joined in a fantastic UX with usable search... but until then... we have what we have
16:03:38 <samccann> aka no repeats
16:03:54 <bcoca> samccann: stay out of my delusions!!!
16:04:00 <bcoca> ;-p
16:04:02 <samccann> hehe
16:04:18 <samccann> omgosh ...am I sharing bcoca delusions now??!
16:04:21 <bcoca> i see we have coinciding dreams
16:04:24 * samccann books brain scan!!!
16:04:44 <samccann> ok on that gem...
16:04:47 <samccann> #endmeeting