15:01:32 <samccann1> #startmeeting Documentation Working Group aka DaWGs
15:01:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Nov  8 15:01:32 2022 UTC.
15:01:32 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:32 <zodbot> The chair is samccann1. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
15:01:32 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:32 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_working_group_aka_dawgs'
15:01:40 <samccann1> @room Meeting time! Who is here to talk the docs?
15:01:47 <samccann1> Raise your ascii hand (o/) to say hi or any other way you want to let us know you are here. And Welcome to any new folks!
15:01:52 <DonNaro[m]> if it's any consolation it's 15.00 here and I'm still not really awake yet either
15:01:57 <DonNaro[m]> o/
15:02:03 <samccann1> heh
15:02:11 <samccann1> #chair Don Naro
15:02:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Naro samccann1
15:02:24 <samccann1> felixfontein: briantist around to talk docs today?
15:02:44 <tremble> o/ but lurking due to a conflict
15:04:10 <samccann1> #chair tremble
15:04:10 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Naro samccann1 tremble
15:04:40 <samccann1> lurking is fine especially today as we need to decide if we want to adjust this meeting so it happens at the same time it did before the time change (aka one hr later)
15:05:12 <samccann1> though I'm thinking we may need a poll or something because people who can't make this earlier hour... aren't here to vote!
15:05:25 <samccann1> To any newcomers - again, welcome. We chair all attendees as a way of recognizing your time spent here. And it opens it up for people to add to the meeting minutes with commands like #info or #link (to add a link)
15:05:36 <samccann1> General run of the meeting - We go over action items, give docs updates.. maybe have a topic or two, and go over doctooling updates (all the fun stuff behind the scenes that get us docs.ansible.com!)
15:06:18 <samccann1> could be a quiet one today :-)
15:06:25 <samccann1> Official agenda is https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/643#issuecomment-1298786711
15:06:34 <samccann1> #topic Action Item updates:
15:06:44 <samccann1> (aka the list of things I still haven't gotten round to)
15:06:55 <samccann1> #info open - dnaro to create docs open office hrs for EMEA timezone and add to WG calendar
15:07:07 <samccann1> I think you had ideas for that one already Don Naro ?
15:07:39 <DonNaro[m]> yep I was double checking survey results and it honestly doesn't seem like there's a ton of interest there.
15:08:38 <DonNaro[m]> but we might just need to build it a little more. I've been trying to rope some colleagues into joining matrix to springboard some discussions.
15:08:43 <samccann1> yep. could be a solution to a nonexistant problem
15:09:38 <DonNaro[m]> yeah it could be that alright. but there are folks around and it would be nice to get some momentum going behind a docs open office hours thing.
15:10:02 <DonNaro[m]> perhaps the survey didn't have a very compelling hook, so to speak
15:10:35 <samccann1> well you could just pick a day/time and then just remind folks it's happening...
15:11:27 <DonNaro[m]> yeah, that's probably the move. I want to get some topics together first so there's a bit of an agenda and I'm not winging it too much.
15:12:26 <DonNaro[m]> there will be a session in Dublin on the 23rd that I'm preparing for so have a bit of material in mind
15:12:34 <samccann1> coolness
15:13:20 <DonNaro[m]> mostly around workflows and techniques for content developers so I don't know if that's a little too "doc/opsy"
15:13:55 <DonNaro[m]> maybe we can debate the pros and cons of ventilated prose
15:14:17 <samccann1> yeah if it's doc/opsy lets use this meeting. it already tends toward deep internals of the docs process
15:15:23 <samccann1> I'm thinking the open hours are more words on paper focused.  So like for an hour a week, someone is in this room willing to talk/advise etc about docs even if it's  some ansible project README file or something?
15:16:27 <felixfontein> o/
15:16:37 <DonNaro[m]> hi felixfontein
15:16:46 <samccann1> #chair felixfontein
15:16:46 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Naro felixfontein samccann1 tremble
15:16:49 <samccann1> welcome welcom
15:16:52 <samccann1> e
15:17:32 <samccann1> meanwhile the other open action item:
15:17:33 <samccann1> #info open add a link to a separate intro to the agenda for welcome/here's what you need to know/ etc so newcomers can prepare.
15:17:54 <samccann1> I'm thinking I just need to add some boilerplate to the agenda about that so I'll try getting that going this week
15:18:06 <samccann1> #topic Meeting time
15:18:33 <samccann1> So we didn't discuss before the time switch and so this meeting right now is happening an hour earlier for most folks.
15:18:51 <samccann1> Do we want to keep it at this time or shift it so it occurs the same time it did a month ago (aka 1 hr later)?
15:18:52 <briantist> o/
15:19:02 <samccann1> #chair briantist
15:19:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: Don Naro briantist felixfontein samccann1 tremble
15:19:24 <felixfontein> I personally prefer one hour later than now
15:19:41 <DonNaro[m]> same same. one hour later plz.
15:20:04 <briantist> I don't feel strongly about the time, but this hour is a little early for me
15:20:18 <samccann1> ok same for me.
15:21:03 <acozine> I'm in my previous meeting
15:21:43 <acozine> hour later is better for me
15:21:56 <samccann1> ok that's consensus
15:22:09 <samccann1> #agreed  - shift the meeting to 1 hr later
15:22:23 <samccann1> #action samccann - shift the meeting time in the calendar and remindbot
15:23:58 <samccann1> #topic Documentation updates
15:24:17 <samccann1> #info ansible-core 2.14 released along with its docs
15:24:31 <samccann1> japanese language will be published today, and then it's EOL time for 2.11!
15:25:37 <samccann1> And I lost track when Ansible 7 beta happens but must be soon, right?
15:27:20 <samccann1> oh.. schedule sez it happens today
15:27:24 <samccann1> and then weekly
15:27:47 <samccann1> so I'll push out the docs after the release (to test) so we have someething to look at... and we should look...at.. :-)
15:27:52 <DonNaro[m]> yeah was just checking that. today's the day.
15:28:01 <samccann1> since we hit a snag w/ Ansible 6 as I recall. tho I can't recall the snag
15:29:15 <samccann1> ok I've been heads-down with prepping and releasing docs so I don't have much else for updates on the 'words on paper' portion of this meeting
15:29:28 <samccann1> #info Looking for thoughts on where we should target docs improvements next?
15:29:28 <samccann1> https://github.com/ansible-community/community-topics/issues/81 to add your ideas.
15:30:25 <samccann1> #topic doctools
15:30:30 <felixfontein> samccann1: Ansible 7 beta 1 is in the works right now
15:30:39 <samccann1> cool thanks!
15:31:16 <samccann1> felixfontein: briantist - I saw chatter here over the weekend I think? about updates to `antsibull-docs` but I wasn't clear if those updates are mandatory for Ansible 7 or not?
15:31:54 <felixfontein> samccann1: they aren't manadatory, but would be nice, since right now the output sucks in some cases (action group module attribute, Ansible 0.x)
15:32:31 <felixfontein> samccann1: from my POV the sanity test doesn't need updated for that though
15:32:48 <samccann1> ok yeah now I recall I was to talk with matt about that...
15:33:38 <felixfontein> I would propose to use semantic versioning for antsibull-docs in the docs build, i.e. use newer bugfix versions, but not newer feature versions
15:33:40 <samccann1> #action samccann to discuss antsibull-doc bugfix releases and can we update in stable-2.14 w/o updating CI containers.
15:33:54 <felixfontein> i.e. when sanity test uses 1.7.1, the docs build can also use 1.7.2 or 1.7.3, but not 1.8.x
15:34:17 <samccann1> #info antisbull-docs fixes include action group module attribute, Ansible 0.x fixes.
15:34:55 <samccann1> #info proposal - use semantic markup and allow sanity test to be fixed at current (1.7.1) but allow docs build to use 1.7.2, 1.7.3 etc but not 1.8.x
15:35:04 <samccann1> ok cool I'll run that by him and see what he thinks.
15:35:25 <felixfontein> for the attributes, compare https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/collections/community/crypto/acme_account_module.html#attributes (1.7.1) with https://ansible.fontein.de/collections/community/crypto/acme_account_module.html#attributes (1.7.3)
15:35:41 <samccann1> my nickel is either we allow that, or we consider monthly updates to antsibull-docs in the /latest/stable release
15:35:55 <felixfontein> samccann1: you mean semantic **versioning**, not semantic markup :D
15:36:38 <samccann1> AAAHAHAHA
15:36:45 <samccann1> freudian slip if there ever was one lol
15:36:56 <samccann1> #undo
15:36:56 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by samccann1 at 15:34:55 : proposal - use semantic markup and allow sanity test to be fixed at current (1.7.1) but allow docs build to use 1.7.2, 1.7.3 etc but not 1.8.x
15:37:31 <samccann1> #info proposal - use semantic versioning and allow sanity test  to be fixed at current (1.7.1) but allow docs build to use 1.7.2, 1.7.3 etc but not 1.8.x
15:37:59 <samccann1> ok do we have other tooling things to chat about?
15:38:11 <samccann1> or doc opsy to steal Don Naro 's term :-)
15:38:24 <DonNaro[m]> tm
15:38:35 <samccann1> all rights reserved
15:38:40 <DonNaro[m]> terms and conditions
15:39:16 <DonNaro[m]> I've got something I'd like to ask the DaWGs actually
15:39:21 <samccann1> go for it
15:39:25 <DonNaro[m]> it's about readthedocs config
15:40:34 <DonNaro[m]> #info Ansible SDK API reference is empty when built with RTD
15:40:46 <DonNaro[m]> here's the html: https://ansible-sdk.readthedocs.io/en/latest/api/ansible_sdk.html
15:41:16 <DonNaro[m]> none of the docstrings are there, even though when I generate them locally it's fine
15:41:20 <DonNaro[m]> #worksonmymachine
15:41:22 <samccann1> #link https://ansible-sdk.readthedocs.io/en/latest/api/ansible_sdk.html
15:41:28 <samccann1> heh
15:41:32 <DonNaro[m]> thanks for the formatting there
15:41:53 <DonNaro[m]> #link https://github.com/ansible/ansible-sdk/blob/main/.readthedocs.yaml
15:42:25 <DonNaro[m]> I think there's a config parameter in there somewhere that is missing but I don't quite know what and I'd love any hints
15:42:27 <briantist> I didn't know this SDK existed
15:42:46 <briantist> does ansible-runner use it? or is that totally separate?
15:42:52 <DonNaro[m]> it's still quite new
15:43:15 <briantist> anywhere I can read when/why I would want to use one or the other for programmatic invocation?
15:43:19 <DonNaro[m]> there is some integration with runner
15:44:16 <DonNaro[m]> I'm also aware that there's a conversation about the whole runner thing and plans are in the works. I can ask and find out what's available to share and get back to you briantist
15:45:36 <briantist> cool, I'd be interested in hearing about that, and this new project whenever you have something to share, thank you!
15:46:35 <DonNaro[m]> yw. sorry I got distracted by kids coming in the door there.
15:47:34 <samccann1> heh
15:47:53 <briantist> it's ok I gotta run in a minute for breakfast anyway
15:48:05 <DonNaro[m]> but, back to the read the docs config, if anyone can have a look at that config and maybe suggest what I need to get the content from the docstrings on RTD that'd be awesome.
15:48:41 <DonNaro[m]> I think it's something in the `build` config. like maybe I need to build the entire project and RTD is just looking at what's in `docs/source`
15:49:22 <DonNaro[m]> https://docs.readthedocs.io/en/stable/config-file/v2.html#build
15:49:28 <samccann1> have you tried the WriteTheDocs slack? There are likely a lot of peeps there familiar with this
15:49:48 <DonNaro[m]> yeah that's a good shout. I did ask in the sphinx channel before but didn't get any hits.
15:50:08 <DonNaro[m]> I know a couple other folks who might have some insights.
15:50:51 <samccann1> ok
15:51:01 <samccann1> I should open the floor for a bit
15:51:06 <samccann1> #topic Open Floorr
15:51:13 <samccann1> minus one r
15:51:22 * samccann1 can't type at this hr
15:51:33 <samccann1> at this hr being nearly 11am but anyway
15:51:49 <samccann1> This is the time to bring up anything docs related.
15:52:06 <samccann1> Got a PR or issue you are interested in? or some other docs idea? here's your chance!
15:54:13 <samccann1> ok if we don't have anything else... we can slip quietly away to take a mid-morning/evening nap....
15:54:16 <samccann1> :-)
15:56:32 <samccann1> #endmeeting