15:01:19 <samccann> #startmeeting Documentation Working Group aka DaWGs
15:01:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul 25 15:01:19 2023 UTC.
15:01:19 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
15:01:19 <zodbot> The chair is samccann. Information about MeetBot at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zodbot#Meeting_Functions.
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15:01:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_working_group_aka_dawgs'
15:01:31 <samccann> @room Meeting time! Who is here to talk the docs?
15:01:40 <samccann> Raise your ascii hand (o/) to say hi or any other way you want to let us know you are here. And Welcome to any new folks!
15:01:49 <samccann> To any newcomers - again, welcome. We chair all attendees as a way of recognizing your time spent here. And it opens it up for people to add to the meeting minutes with commands like #info or #link (to add a link)
15:01:58 <samccann> General run of the meeting - We go over action items, give docs updates.. maybe have a topic or two, and go over doctooling updates (all the fun stuff behind the scenes that get us docs.ansible.com!)
15:02:07 <samccann> official agenda at https://github.com/ansible/community/issues/678#issuecomment-1640516861
15:03:00 <samccann> felixfontein: briantist gotmax23 - around to talk docs today?
15:03:05 * gotmax23 will be back at his desk in a minute
15:03:05 <TVo[m]> Hello \o/
15:03:27 <samccann> #chair TVo
15:03:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: TVo samccann
15:03:31 <samccann> welcome welcome!
15:03:58 <samccann> TVo: while we're waiting for others to show up - is there anything you want to discuss about community docs?
15:04:12 <Landrash[m]> Hi
15:04:19 <TVo[m]> samccann: no, not today
15:04:25 <samccann> #chair Landrash
15:04:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: Landrash TVo samccann
15:04:26 <samccann> welcome!
15:04:56 <samccann> ok no worries. It's a open agenda so to speak so we can add items that interest you whenever you like
15:04:56 <gotmax23> .hi
15:04:58 <zodbot> gotmax23: Something blew up, please try again
15:05:00 <samccann> same for everyone really
15:05:01 <zodbot> gotmax23: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
15:05:17 <samccann> #chair gotmax23
15:05:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: Landrash TVo gotmax23 samccann
15:05:18 <gotmax23> Hmm, something's wrong with Zodbot
15:05:28 <samccann> .hi
15:05:29 <zodbot> samccann: Something blew up, please try again
15:05:32 <zodbot> samccann: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
15:05:38 <Landrash[m]> .test
15:05:38 <zodbot> it worked!
15:05:49 <gotmax23> I'll ask infra about it later. The actual meetbot stuff should still work.
15:05:51 <samccann> well who knows if we'll get meeting minutes but it seems to be responding to commands
15:05:55 <samccann> cool thanks
15:06:07 <samccann> #topic Preferred Terminology
15:06:14 <samccann> #info adding project terms to style guide - https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/issues/152.
15:06:50 <samccann> So we need feedback on the hackmd listed in that issue, and other terms we should add or change etc. This is to help us stay consistent across our docs.
15:07:29 <samccann> You'll also see some stuff crossed out. I started the list based on Red Hat official terms as a place to start. I've been keeping it updated now based on comments in the github issue
15:07:48 <samccann> One that likely needs thought is how we refer to Ansible (the package) vs ansible-core
15:08:12 <samccann> I'm in favor of ansible-core is always ...ansible-core
15:08:22 <samccann> never Ansible core
15:08:31 <Landrash[m]> Good no
15:08:39 <Landrash[m]> Package names always lowercase
15:09:07 <samccann> yeah the gotcha is when the collection split happened, we decided the Ansible 'name' stayed with the packate
15:09:12 <samccann> package that is
15:09:33 <samccann> So it's Ansible and ansible-core  ...tho possibly not consistently
15:10:17 <Landrash[m]> Then again, most will install Ansible and those using only ansible-core will be aware of the difference hopefully
15:10:59 <Landrash[m]> I don't think there's any way of simplifying it more than that
15:11:43 <samccann> yeah the only other option I can think of is Ansible package. Frankly, it's what I say regularly here in chat when talking about it vs ansible-core.  But we seldom say that in docs
15:13:16 <samccann> tho looking at our official release announcements, it uses Ansible package...
15:13:43 <samccann> and ansible-core package so... 🤷‍♀️
15:14:12 <samccann> anywho, take a look at the list and comment in the issue. We'll eventually move the list into the docs style guide when we agree on the terms
15:14:33 <samccann> #topic Labelling strategy
15:14:42 <samccann> #info setting up labels in the docs repo - https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/issues/101
15:15:05 <gotmax23> I'd like to merge https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/pull/118 (the initial PR) now so we can iterate on it
15:15:07 <samccann> This is another repo setup item - what labels to we want in the repo (
15:16:14 <gotmax23> That PR adds `needs_triage` and `sc_approval` labels. I agree with samccann about adding `new contributor` and `needs_info` labels.
15:16:23 <samccann> gotmax23: I'm happy to merge that one if you feel it's ready
15:17:03 <gotmax23> Adding tooling is fine with me as long as we keep making sure that issues that are caused by other tools (e.g. the sphinx theme or antsibulld-docs) are refilled in the correct place
15:17:23 <samccann> on the needs info label... we have question and help wanted labels
15:17:31 <samccann> dunno if those other too came by default or not
15:17:44 <gotmax23> samccann: Yeah, I think it's good to go. I am a bit meh on adding needs_triage to everything, though. What's the purpose of that again?
15:18:16 <samccann> I use triage labels to know if I've looked at an issue and done an initial review of it, put it in the project board etc
15:18:26 <samccann> ditto for new PRs
15:18:39 <gotmax23> Got it
15:18:54 <samccann> I guess it depends on how many other people will start looking at all incoming issues and prs and act on them?
15:19:14 <samccann> if it's just me, I like the label. If it's a bunch of us, maybe it's extra noise
15:19:51 <gotmax23> Yeah, as a somewhat casual contributor (I occasionally review/merge PRs and comment on issues), I'm not sure what I'd do with that
15:20:45 <Landrash[m]> I think both the prs looks good. The triage label is great if used and can be removed it not used.
15:20:45 <Landrash[m]> I would look at needs triage on a pr ad to look at comments etc closer
15:21:24 <samccann> yeah so what I've done is - I 'triage' once a week and remove the label after I've looked at the pr or issue
15:21:39 <samccann> for issues - I review, would add additional labels depending on what it refers to, and add to project board
15:22:01 <Landrash[m]> Seems sane
15:22:04 <samccann> for PRs - i'd remove the triage label, either merge, comment, or ask someone else to take a look if I don't know what to do w the PR
15:22:38 <gotmax23> What if an issue is closed or PR is merged before it's been "triaged"?
15:23:04 <samccann> I'll assume whomever closed/merged knew what they were doing :-)
15:23:23 <samccann> I look at open items with the triage label, not closed
15:23:50 <gotmax23> Okay, that makes sense to me
15:24:34 <gotmax23> Thanks for pushing the big green button samccann :)
15:24:59 <gotmax23> If it seems it's doing something wonky (I did test it, so it should work TM), ping me
15:25:41 <samccann> hehe ok thanks
15:25:57 <samccann> I added how I use the triage label to the PR in case anyone gets curioius
15:26:05 <samccann> #topic autoresponder
15:26:12 <samccann> #info in the old repo, we had a bot that would post links to matrix and the WG meeting minutes for every opened docs issue - https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/issues/69
15:26:28 <samccann> There were some folks who thought the auto response was noisy as implemented in ansible/ansible
15:26:45 <samccann> so the question is  do we add one here (and only for new contributors)? or not at all?
15:27:01 <gotmax23> I like your only have it activate for new contributors compromise
15:27:04 <samccann> We did add it as a way to draw people from PRs to this channel
15:27:49 <samccann> ok cool. then we'll leave the issue open
15:28:18 <gotmax23> Do you want to use the same template as core did (https://github.com/ansible/ansibullbot/blob/devel/templates/docs_team_info.j2) or make some changes?
15:29:25 <samccann> gotmax23: that works for now. Once the forum is up, we can decide if we want to add that link or not. Might be more interesting than the DaWGs meeting agenda link :-)
15:30:03 <samccann> don't hold me to this, but the forum I think is less than a month away? so we could always hold off on the autoresponder until then if you think it's easier just doing it once
15:30:19 <gotmax23> #action gotmax23 to update the ansible-documentation labeling workflow to add new contributors labels and autoresponder for issues and PRs opened by new contributors
15:30:25 <samccann> :-) cool thanks!
15:30:28 <gotmax23> It should be easy to just update the template
15:30:44 <samccann> ok perfect
15:30:55 * samccann felt silly saying cool too many times in a row
15:31:15 <samccann> #topic Trimming down galaxy guides
15:31:23 <samccann> #info galaxyNG becomes galaxy... sometime soonish? What do we do with existing Galaxy guides?
15:32:05 <samccann> #info this PR removes the duplicate collection details from the galaxy guide - https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/pull/145
15:32:36 * gotmax23 remembers seeing email notifications about this but didn't read them :)
15:32:40 <samccann> mostly because I tried to be clever and reuse little txt file snippets... but few people contributing/updating that info realize what I did so... the two places I reused that stuff are out of synce
15:32:44 <samccann> hehe
15:32:59 <samccann> well I wanted to just remove the galaxy guides entirely, but that didn't fly well with others
15:33:25 <samccann> So now I want to remove the duplicate detail and just point to using collections
15:33:33 <samccann> but I'm not sure what to do about  the roles section
15:33:43 <samccann> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/galaxy/user_guide.html#finding-roles-on-galaxy
15:33:55 <gotmax23> New Galaxy still has roles, doesn't it?
15:33:58 <samccann> I have to go back to the galaxy NG team because they I think wanted that section removed
15:34:07 <gotmax23> By still, I mean they were added back
15:34:11 <samccann> I want to say they call it legacy in the UI but they are there
15:34:39 <samccann> I dunno if you can upload new standalone roles to Galaxy NG or not? but that's not in our guide anyway.
15:34:59 <samccann> and our current role documentation never points to galaxy to say BTW here's a TON of exissting roles you might be interested in
15:35:04 <gotmax23> I was supposed to open a discussion asking them to remove Legacy (it's overly pejorative, IMO), but never did...
15:36:08 <samccann> galaxyNG doesn't allow github issues. they have to be created in JIRA... which I think is open to the public if you have a RH login (free. but extra work imo)
15:36:08 <gotmax23> There's a lot of dedicated role maintainers who do great work and roles are very much still a thing
15:36:36 <samccann> Yeah so my question - keep the roles in the galaxy guide, or move them to the roles docs
15:37:07 <samccann> https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/devel/playbook_guide/playbooks_reuse_roles.html#sharing-roles-ansible-galaxy
15:37:20 <bcoca> galaxy team is adding roles to galaxy_ng so they can kill old galaxy codebase
15:37:53 <samccann> thanks bcoca - do you happen to know if GalaxyNG allows importing new roles?
15:37:55 <bcoca> yes, they 'wanted' to remove roles ..  but community/co mandated otherwise
15:37:56 <gotmax23> I vote to keep roles documentation were they are
15:38:12 <bcoca> samccann: if not, they should be close to do so
15:38:19 <samccann> ok thanks
15:38:41 <bcoca> last i heard they were testing it in beta and were going to move galaxy.ansible.com to be 'fully galaxy_ng' with role support
15:39:33 <gotmax23> Support for roles is live on beta-galaxy.ansible.com
15:39:55 <gotmax23> So yeah, I think we should keep roles in the Galaxy docs
15:40:44 <samccann> what's interesting is I don't see it mentioned at all in the official galaxy NG docs  - https://ansible.readthedocs.io/projects/galaxy-ng/en/latest/
15:40:52 <samccann> (roles that is)
15:40:56 <samccann> but I digress
15:41:17 <samccann> #topic docs tooling and docsite
15:41:41 <samccann> I know we're waiting on Don's return to talk about those pinning docs requirements issues
15:42:48 <gotmax23> There's discussion about getting rid of the Makefile in favor of a more "modern" workflow
15:42:49 <gotmax23> https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/issues/54
15:42:58 <bcoca> in any case, i would ping someone on galaxy team for 'latest' state
15:42:59 <gotmax23> I guess $SOMEONE needs to put together a PR
15:43:42 <samccann> yeah that's another where I think Don Naro would have good input. Maybe I'll send him a flood of issues/PRs to look at tomorrow as a welcome back treat :-)
15:44:04 <samccann> what about this one - https://github.com/ansible/ansible-documentation/pull/121
15:44:39 <samccann> fixing the porting guide problems I think? We have 2 weeks to get it fixed (or maybe 1.5? lost track of time) before we end up with a manual workaround again on the next Ansible package release
15:44:46 <gotmax23> That and the corresponding ansible-build-data PR are awaiting anwesha's feedback when she comes back
15:45:35 <gotmax23> Ah, the porting guide and tagging problems from last release are a separate
15:45:40 <samccann> ah cool
15:46:03 <samccann> #topic Open Floor
15:46:18 <samccann> any other docs-related/repo topics anyone wants to discuss?
15:47:41 <samccann> #info reminder to those on matrix - this room will close and a new room 'open' to fix a pending deprecation issue between matrix and the irc/discord bridge. You should see a link to the new room here when that happens
15:48:10 <samccann> I don't think IRC folks will notice any change. And the new rooms have the same alias so any links will still work etc
15:48:35 <samccann> if no one has another topic, I'll end the meeting
15:49:07 <TVo[m]> Thanks samccann
15:49:25 <TVo[m]> Thanks gotmax23 for your contributions and feedback!
15:49:35 <samccann> #endmeeting