2024-04-05 16:01:47 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !startmeeting ELN (2024-04-05)
2024-04-05 16:01:49 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2024-04-05 16:01:47 UTC
2024-04-05 16:01:49 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'ELN (2024-04-05)'
2024-04-05 16:01:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !meetingname eln
2024-04-05 16:01:57 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Init Process
2024-04-05 16:03:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-05 16:03:10 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Stephen Gallagher (sgallagh) - he / him / his
2024-04-05 16:03:12 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !hi
2024-04-05 16:03:13 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Yaakov Selkowitz (yselkowitz)
2024-04-05 16:03:34 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Hello !
2024-04-05 16:03:41 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2024-04-05 16:03:44 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2024-04-05 16:04:31 <@nhanlon:beeper.com> !hi
2024-04-05 16:04:33 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
2024-04-05 16:05:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Hello, folks. Glad you could all make it!
2024-04-05 16:05:39 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic Agenda
2024-04-05 16:06:05 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> What would we like to discuss today? I don't have any specific topics in mind, but since we skipped last meeting I didn't want to skip two in a row.
2024-04-05 16:06:10 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So what's on your minds?
2024-04-05 16:06:22 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> guest image build failures
2024-04-05 16:07:26 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Agenda Item: Issues with guest image building
2024-04-05 16:07:38 <@davide:cavalca.name> wrapping up the libxcrypt-epel discussion from the other channel
2024-04-05 16:09:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Agenda Item: How to include ELN-only packages
2024-04-05 16:10:09 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> nirik: That's news to me. Link?
2024-04-05 16:11:04 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> https://pagure.io/releng/issue/12053
2024-04-05 16:12:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info Agenda Item: ELN buildroot retention
2024-04-05 16:13:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, let's get started. Mind if we go in reverse order, since I think the guest image topic may take a while??
2024-04-05 16:13:12 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, let's get started. Mind if we go in reverse order, since I think the guest image topic may take a while?
2024-04-05 16:15:07 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic ELN buildroot retention
2024-04-05 16:15:36 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://pagure.io/releng/issue/12053
2024-04-05 16:15:54 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I guess this was mostly a fyi, and to see if other solutions could be found for their issue
2024-04-05 16:16:27 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Currently, we don't "gate" ELN composes on any kind of CI runs. We only have two compose states: completely failed and not copied to the `latest` location or "at least the install trees composed".
2024-04-05 16:16:57 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Part of this is because we just don't have the infrastructure available to do that.
2024-04-05 16:17:18 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> This is also another reminder that we need to get off of ODCS soon.
2024-04-05 16:17:47 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> I'd have to look, but IIRC koji has no way to keep just some buildroots longer, so its global. 17 days of all repos is a complete no go from a disk space standpoint
2024-04-05 16:18:04 <@davide:cavalca.name> could we use openQA for this?
2024-04-05 16:18:36 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca: We could do a great many things, but we need someone with the cycles to work on it :)
2024-04-05 16:18:54 <@davide:cavalca.name> I mention that specifically because adamw did rig up openQA for ELN a while ago
2024-04-05 16:19:22 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Right now, keeping the lights on is easily 60% of my and yselkowitz's time
2024-04-05 16:19:40 <@davide:cavalca.name> if that's the path we want to go with I might be able to help drum up some resourcing around it (as it would make my life easier as well on the Meta side)
2024-04-05 16:20:51 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> The actual tool we use to provide promotion approval is largely irrelevant; the main problem is the lack of mechanism to do a "promotion" at all.
2024-04-05 16:21:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I'll admit, I'm not super-familiar with how we do this in Rawhide at the moment; is there a gating mechanism for composes there?
2024-04-05 16:21:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> (Read: is this something we could piggyback on if we get the composes running the way Rawhide does them instead of our ODCS solution?)
2024-04-05 16:22:34 <@davide:cavalca.name> I know Rawhide does gating using openQA but I don't know what the mechanism is for that
2024-04-05 16:22:35 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I should probably mention nirik by name for a reply :)
2024-04-05 16:23:39 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> there is a setup... I think we enabled it, but its early...
2024-04-05 16:24:29 <@davide:cavalca.name> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/rawhide-gating/ is the documentation for what we do in Rawhide
2024-04-05 16:24:46 <@davide:cavalca.name> though it looks like this is geared towards individual packages, not composes
2024-04-05 16:25:05 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah, we may not have enabled the compose part yet
2024-04-05 16:25:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, but regardless, it will probably be best for us to get things close to how Rawhide is working so when that gets turned on, we can do likewise
2024-04-05 16:26:37 <@nirik:matrix.scrye.com> yeah... gating updates should help, but doesn't fix everything
2024-04-05 16:27:16 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Damned practice, getting in the way of good theory.
2024-04-05 16:27:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> #info No specific actions to take here at the moment, other than to schedule and work on migration of composes off of ODCS.
2024-04-05 16:28:08 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !topic How to include ELN-only packages
2024-04-05 16:28:18 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca: Want to briefly summarize the question here?
2024-04-05 16:28:25 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> that last #info didn't register, you need to \!info
2024-04-05 16:28:30 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Oops
2024-04-05 16:28:38 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> but there is no \!undo either
2024-04-05 16:28:44 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info (previous topic) No specific actions to take here at the moment, other than to schedule and work on migration of composes off of ODCS.
2024-04-05 16:28:58 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Low-tech solution :)
2024-04-05 16:31:07 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> OK, we may have lost Davide
2024-04-05 16:31:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Does anyone else want to try to summarize this or shall we jump to the guest image topic?
2024-04-05 16:31:47 <@davide:cavalca.name> I'm here, sorry got sidetracked
2024-04-05 16:32:24 <@davide:cavalca.name> tl;dr there are some subpackages that aren't build in ELN but we want to include in ELN Extras composes by providing them in a -epel compat package
2024-04-05 16:32:48 <@davide:cavalca.name> these packages don't have a `rawhide` branch, they'll have an `eln` branch now (and an `epelX` branch down then road when EPEL branches)
2024-04-05 16:33:17 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> So, essentially these are the equivalent of EPEL packages that add missing subpackages to RHEL?
2024-04-05 16:33:24 <@davide:cavalca.name> case in point: https://github.com/minimization/content-resolver-input/pull/1124 (which is libxcrypt-epel)
2024-04-05 16:33:28 <@davide:cavalca.name> yes, exactly
2024-04-05 16:35:34 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> There's not a lot that needs to happen here, and most of it is already in place.
2024-04-05 16:36:06 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> We need a request to add it to the content resolver (which you have above) and we want to also exclude it from trying to auto-rebuild in Rawhide in case anyone (for some reason) builds/tags it there.
2024-04-05 16:36:51 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> so my concern is it may not be that simple
2024-04-05 16:37:07 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> e.g. libxcrypt-compat is a subpkg of libxcrypt in rawhide
2024-04-05 16:37:23 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> we need libxcrypt in eln, but there it is built w/o -compat
2024-04-05 16:37:47 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> so if we add libxcrypt-compat to CR, what will EBS try to do?
2024-04-05 16:37:51 <@davide:cavalca.name> https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/libxcrypt/blob/rawhide/f/libxcrypt.spec#_10 is the specific gating for context
2024-04-05 16:38:03 <@davide:cavalca.name> what's EBS?
2024-04-05 16:38:29 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ELNBuildSync, the replacement for DBS (DistroBuildSync), although the latter name is still used in places
2024-04-05 16:39:10 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Strictly speaking, both EBS and DBS exist, but they forked so far back that it was more sensible to rename ours.
2024-04-05 16:39:24 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> They still share a config file format, but are otherwise entirely divergent
2024-04-05 16:40:04 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> yselkowitz: They need to behave exactly as they would in EPEL.
2024-04-05 16:40:28 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Which means that the package they build for ELN would have to provide *only* the `-compat` subpackage and no other subpackages that would replace the RHEL package
2024-04-05 16:40:56 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> of course, but that wasn't the question
2024-04-05 16:41:16 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.
2024-04-05 16:42:36 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> how will EBS handle a package like libxcrypt-compat that is built from libxcrypt in rawhide but not in ELN, and built (manually) from libxcrypt-epel for eln-extras
2024-04-05 16:43:07 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> It is based off what is in the compose for ELN
2024-04-05 16:43:47 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> also, does this risk eln-extras "contaminating" eln if something in eln (mistakenly) depends on it (e.g. the current issue with nbdkit wrt libxcrypt-compat)?
2024-04-05 16:44:40 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> yselkowitz: I think that's where "unwanted packages" comes in
2024-04-05 16:44:50 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> It *may* get scooped up, but we'll be aware of it.
2024-04-05 16:45:14 <@tdawson:fedora.im> That is my biggest worry.  I'm still a little fuzzy on how eln-extras doesn't contaminate eln builds, even without this proposal.
2024-04-05 16:45:45 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Troy Dawson: Define "contaminate" please?
2024-04-05 16:46:03 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> As far as "they're available in the buildroot"?
2024-04-05 16:46:41 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Correct ... and now my mind just rememberd that recommends doesn't have a BuildRecommends.
2024-04-05 16:47:15 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I withdraw my worry
2024-04-05 16:51:02 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> We might need to ensure that such builds have a different SRPM name to avoid some hiccoughs with tracking.
2024-04-05 16:51:43 <@davide:cavalca.name> that should be fine if we keep the `-epel` convention
2024-04-05 16:52:54 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> so sounds like we go ahead and add these to CR *after* a manual eln-extras build from an -epel SRPM?
2024-04-05 16:54:26 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ??
2024-04-05 16:54:33 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> I think that's probably the best approach.
2024-04-05 16:54:43 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> And we should write this down in the docs for future reference
2024-04-05 16:57:09 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info ELN-only packages should be built into eln-extras from a separate SRPM name than the Rawhide package.
2024-04-05 16:57:48 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info That separate SRPM name will be added to the exclusion list in ELNBuildSync to avoid accidental rebuilds
2024-04-05 16:58:05 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !info The needed subpackage(s) will be added to Content Resolver for ELN Extras.
2024-04-05 16:58:19 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Any volunteers to capture this in the docs?
2024-04-05 16:58:40 <@davide:cavalca.name> I can get this written up
2024-04-05 17:00:41 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !action Davide Cavalca to update the docs
2024-04-05 17:00:43 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Thanks!
2024-04-05 17:01:15 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> We're at the top of the hour, so why don't we take the virt image issue back to #eln:fedoraproject.org for now
2024-04-05 17:02:09 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> Thanks for joining, folks!
2024-04-05 17:02:12 <@sgallagh:fedora.im> !endmeeting