2025-03-20 19:02:08 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !startmeeting ELN SIG 20 Mar '25
2025-03-20 19:02:09 <@meetbot:fedora.im> Meeting started at 2025-03-20 19:02:08 UTC
2025-03-20 19:02:09 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting name is 'ELN SIG 20 Mar '25'
2025-03-20 19:02:30 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !meetingname eln
2025-03-20 19:02:31 <@meetbot:fedora.im> The Meeting Name is now eln
2025-03-20 19:02:35 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Init process
2025-03-20 19:02:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> !hi
2025-03-20 19:02:49 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Troy Dawson (tdawson)
2025-03-20 19:05:39 <@davide:cavalca.name> !hi
2025-03-20 19:05:41 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
2025-03-20 19:06:22 <@salimma:fedora.im> !hi
2025-03-20 19:06:23 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
2025-03-20 19:07:48 <@gmoro:matrix.org> !hi
2025-03-20 19:07:50 <@zodbot:fedora.im> No Fedora Accounts users have the @gmoro:matrix.org Matrix Account defined
2025-03-20 19:08:07 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> welcome gmoro 
2025-03-20 19:09:37 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> gmoro is a new member of our team at Red Hat, hopefully you'll all be seeing more of him as he comes on board
2025-03-20 19:10:02 <@gmoro:matrix.org> thanks 
2025-03-20 19:10:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> welcome!
2025-03-20 19:11:18 <@salimma:fedora.im> gmoro: if you go to accounts.fedoraproject.org and log in and list your matrix ID there you'd be able to identify here
2025-03-20 19:11:28 <@davide:cavalca.name> Welcome!
2025-03-20 19:11:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> I think meanwhile you can do ... is it bang hello FAS ?
2025-03-20 19:11:31 <@gmoro:matrix.org> lets try again
2025-03-20 19:11:33 <@gmoro:matrix.org> !hi
2025-03-20 19:11:35 <@zodbot:fedora.im> Guilherme Moro (guilhermemoro)
2025-03-20 19:11:40 <@salimma:fedora.im> woohoo
2025-03-20 19:11:40 <@gmoro:matrix.org> there we go
2025-03-20 19:12:39 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic New business
2025-03-20 19:14:20 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/234
2025-03-20 19:14:50 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info llvm-20 landed recently, most packages just needed a rebuild, a couple are waiting on upstream
2025-03-20 19:15:35 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> rust won't migrate until 1.87
2025-03-20 19:16:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> anyone knows what's the issue someone posted in test@ is about? saying clazy does not work with clang20
2025-03-20 19:16:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> finding link
2025-03-20 19:16:44 <@salimma:fedora.im> !link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/MXLU5DDRJHRF7JSNZW65ZQNEIZLSM4W3/
2025-03-20 19:17:07 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> but clazy is not in ELN or Extras
2025-03-20 19:18:01 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah, not our problem I guess
2025-03-20 19:18:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> llvm-20 did change the package layout somewhat though
2025-03-20 19:18:32 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> as of F42, everything is in /usr/lib64/llvmNN with symlinks out to /usr
2025-03-20 19:19:30 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> not sure we'll make to open floor by then, so let's discuss now
2025-03-20 19:19:46 <@salimma:fedora.im> ah ok
2025-03-20 19:20:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> so just a heads up -- before anyone is surprised, or if anyone has objections: we (meta) would like to start tracking conda in ELN, probably as a new workload - call it data science maybe
2025-03-20 19:20:55 <@salimma:fedora.im> we have users who want it, it's not in EPEL 10 yet, and generally rquires quite a lot of Python dependencies so we want to be prepared early for next time
2025-03-20 19:21:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> if this is a bad idea, please let me know and we'll figure out other solutions
2025-03-20 19:21:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 1) is everything in rawhide yet?
2025-03-20 19:21:37 <@salimma:fedora.im> yes. conda is actually in Fedora and EPEL 8 and 9
2025-03-20 19:21:44 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 2) is EPEL 11 a target?
2025-03-20 19:22:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> and yes, we want to get it in future EPEL (we'll do EPEL 10 too actually, but have not gotten started)
2025-03-20 19:22:32 <@salimma:fedora.im> the version in EPEL 9 is too old, we'll leave it there since if we want a newer one we'd have to build up the whole python 3.11 alternate stack
2025-03-20 19:22:43 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> in that case I don't see why it couldn't go in to eln-extras
2025-03-20 19:22:54 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> separate workload is always a good idea
2025-03-20 19:23:00 <@salimma:fedora.im> will do, thanks
2025-03-20 19:23:11 <@salimma:fedora.im> that's it from me
2025-03-20 19:23:15 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info Meta to add a conda workload to ELN Extras
2025-03-20 19:24:09 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info RHEL Content Resolver configs were renamed, now prefixed with rhel-sst- or rhel-ssg-
2025-03-20 19:25:01 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> doesn't affect much except for the config filenames and how they appear in CR
2025-03-20 19:25:21 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Old business
2025-03-20 19:25:38 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://github.com/fedora-eln/eln/issues/192
2025-03-20 19:26:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> are we ready to continue votes on the background artwork this week?
2025-03-20 19:26:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> As much as I'd like more people here to vote, I'd also like to just get it done and in.
2025-03-20 19:26:53 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> so far we decided 1) to go with some version of Troy's artwork and 2) not to have spilled relish by the ELN logo
2025-03-20 19:26:56 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> next question is:
2025-03-20 19:27:19 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 3) should Beefy Miracle (the hot dog) be included?
2025-03-20 19:27:23 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> debate?
2025-03-20 19:27:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> uh... yes
2025-03-20 19:27:56 <@salimma:fedora.im> what's the point of having the relish without the hot dog?
2025-03-20 19:27:58 <@davide:cavalca.name> Yes for me 
2025-03-20 19:28:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'm leaning towards this one, without the Beefy Miracle .... https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/eln/background/eln-plain-medium.png
2025-03-20 19:28:08 <@salimma:fedora.im> oh interesting
2025-03-20 19:28:17 <@salimma:fedora.im> next time we should ask Troy to weigh in first :)
2025-03-20 19:28:24 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> personally I think the hot dog is just a bit much
2025-03-20 19:28:35 <@tdawson:fedora.im> *laughs* I'm actually good with most of them.
2025-03-20 19:28:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> we're not voting yet, we're discussing
2025-03-20 19:28:58 <@salimma:fedora.im> given the unfortunate controversy in Fedora, which I think is overblown, I'll defer to Troy here 
2025-03-20 19:29:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ah, ok.
2025-03-20 19:29:13 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> which controversy?
2025-03-20 19:29:27 <@salimma:fedora.im> beefy miracle is why we don't have official release names anymore. or so I'm told
2025-03-20 19:29:34 <@salimma:fedora.im> someone thought it'd be offensive to vegetarians?
2025-03-20 19:29:40 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I think there's always been a bit of controversy around Beefy Miracle.
2025-03-20 19:30:12 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> lol
2025-03-20 19:30:25 <@salimma:fedora.im> I should ask Arch folks if they want to join in
2025-03-20 19:32:04 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I'm not offended by a hot dog, but I do think it's a bit out of place (not to mention really large)
2025-03-20 19:32:50 <@tdawson:fedora.im> If we do have the hot dog, I would like the "everything" batch, either with or without relish - https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/eln/background/eln-beefy-miracle-everything.png  https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/eln/background/eln-beefy-miracle-everything-extra-relish.png
2025-03-20 19:32:58 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> I guess I don't have the same emotional attachment to Beefy Miracle as others do though
2025-03-20 19:33:13 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> one step at a time
2025-03-20 19:33:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> yeah tbh I like the hot dog in Plymouth because after boot it stays out of the way
2025-03-20 19:33:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I remember him, I think it was way back in Red Hat Linux, during the installing screen.
2025-03-20 19:33:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> but on the desktop background, all the time, it might be much (though I don't use translucent terminals anymore since GNOME does not have it, and so I don't really see the background that much)
2025-03-20 19:35:16 <@tdawson:fedora.im> So, it sounds like others are leaning to not have him as well.
2025-03-20 19:35:29 <@salimma:fedora.im> I did not know beefy has a gender :P
2025-03-20 19:35:51 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> oh don't even start 😛
2025-03-20 19:35:56 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> sounds like we're ready for the question
2025-03-20 19:36:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Ya ... I don't know either ... just slipped out.
2025-03-20 19:36:07 <@salimma:fedora.im> 42! 
2025-03-20 19:36:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> sorry, did I jump the gun
2025-03-20 19:36:22 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 3. should Beefy Miracle be included?
2025-03-20 19:36:25 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> let's vote!
2025-03-20 19:36:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> -1
2025-03-20 19:36:37 <@tdawson:fedora.im> -1
2025-03-20 19:36:42 <@davide:cavalca.name> 0
2025-03-20 19:37:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> -1
2025-03-20 19:38:15 <@gmoro:matrix.org> didn't know about Beefy Miracle, funny enough, lol
2025-03-20 19:38:24 <@salimma:fedora.im> you know I will now add the plymouth hot dog theme to ELN extras ... or should that be to ELN core
2025-03-20 19:38:45 <@salimma:fedora.im> it was mizmo's husband's handiwork iirc? Ray Strode?
2025-03-20 19:38:53 <@gmoro:matrix.org> maybe just a small one in the corner "Approved by Beefy Miracle" as a secondary option :p
2025-03-20 19:38:59 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !agreed (+0, -3, 1) with all do respect to Beefy Miracle, it's just a bit much for the desktop background, so it will be omitted
2025-03-20 19:39:13 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> next question:
2025-03-20 19:39:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 4. ELN logo in the middle of the background or in the corner?
2025-03-20 19:39:30 <@soupcreator:matrix.org> Beefy miracle is the best, why?, because beefy miracle IS OUR RULER AND GOD!
2025-03-20 19:39:48 <@salimma:fedora.im> now now that's the Flying Spaghetti Monster
2025-03-20 19:39:51 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> uh no
2025-03-20 19:39:54 <@salimma:fedora.im> Beefy is just an acolyte
2025-03-20 19:40:04 <@salimma:fedora.im> 4. I think center
2025-03-20 19:40:13 <@salimma:fedora.im> I like the background Troy posted earlier
2025-03-20 19:40:14 <@gmoro:matrix.org> Which one is the one in the corner?
2025-03-20 19:40:41 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Troy Dawson: do you have a sample with no beefy and ELN in the corner?
2025-03-20 19:40:42 <@tdawson:fedora.im> As much as I like ELN to be out of the way (in the corner.  The rest of the background is basically pointing to the center.  So I prefer it in the center myself.
2025-03-20 19:40:50 <@gmoro:matrix.org> do we already have this version I mean?
2025-03-20 19:42:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ^^^ logo in the middle
2025-03-20 19:42:07 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Oh ... I didn't make one in the corner without beefy ... it's only "center bottom" or "center center"
2025-03-20 19:42:10 <@salimma:fedora.im> if we vote on it consider my vote for the center. and... I need to run now, good catchingup with everyone
2025-03-20 19:42:26 <@tdawson:fedora.im> By
2025-03-20 19:42:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> thanks Michel Lind UTC-6 
2025-03-20 19:42:30 <@salimma:fedora.im> center bottom would feel weird, somehow center top feels better but I still prefer center center
2025-03-20 19:42:59 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ok there have been so many versions
2025-03-20 19:43:11 <@davide:cavalca.name> Yeah the current design kinda needs something in the center IMO
2025-03-20 19:43:23 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> sounds like we're ready for the question
2025-03-20 19:43:51 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 4. ELN logo in the middle or at the bottom?
2025-03-20 19:44:00 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> (modified based on discussion)
2025-03-20 19:44:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> let's vote!
2025-03-20 19:44:24 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Middle
2025-03-20 19:44:30 <@davide:cavalca.name> Middle
2025-03-20 19:44:30 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ^^^
2025-03-20 19:45:04 <@gmoro:matrix.org> middle
2025-03-20 19:45:10 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !agreed (+4, -0, 0) without Beefy Miracle, the ELN logo should be in the middle
2025-03-20 19:45:45 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 5. should the ELN logo be medium or (extra) large?
2025-03-20 19:46:09 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> ^^^ medium
2025-03-20 19:46:13 <@davide:cavalca.name> Do we have images to compare?
2025-03-20 19:46:28 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> Troy Dawson can you post the extra large sample?
2025-03-20 19:46:33 <@tdawson:fedora.im> BIg: https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/eln/background/eln-plain-big.png
2025-03-20 19:46:48 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Medium: https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/eln/background/eln-plain-big.png
2025-03-20 19:47:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> you just posted the same one twice
2025-03-20 19:47:05 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Sorry, bad paste: https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/eln/background/eln-plain-medium.png
2025-03-20 19:47:46 <@davide:cavalca.name> Leaning towards medium I think
2025-03-20 19:48:00 <@tdawson:fedora.im> I'll be ok with both, but the big one is too "in your face" 
2025-03-20 19:48:44 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> sounds like we're all on the same page, so:
2025-03-20 19:48:49 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> 5. should the ELN logo be medium or (extra) large?
2025-03-20 19:48:53 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> let's vote!
2025-03-20 19:49:01 <@tdawson:fedora.im> medium
2025-03-20 19:49:07 <@davide:cavalca.name> Medium
2025-03-20 19:49:18 <@gmoro:matrix.org> medium
2025-03-20 19:49:27 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !agreed (+4, -0, 0) the ELN logo should be medium sized
2025-03-20 19:49:47 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !link https://tdawson.fedorapeople.org/eln/background/eln-plain-medium.png
2025-03-20 19:50:00 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> final vote!
2025-03-20 19:50:03 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> +1
2025-03-20 19:50:09 <@tdawson:fedora.im> +1
2025-03-20 19:50:50 <@gmoro:matrix.org> +1
2025-03-20 19:51:27 <@davide:cavalca.name> +1
2025-03-20 19:51:40 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !agreed (+4, -0, 0) Troy's background with a medium sized ELN logo in the middle
2025-03-20 19:52:04 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !action Troy to create the fedora-eln-backgrounds package with that artwork
2025-03-20 19:52:30 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Will do
2025-03-20 19:53:05 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !topic Open floor
2025-03-20 19:53:22 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> oops, forgot to check the schedule
2025-03-20 19:53:38 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> any conflicts with next week's meeting?
2025-03-20 19:54:25 <@tdawson:fedora.im> No conflicts for me.
2025-03-20 19:54:28 <@davide:cavalca.name> I don't think so 
2025-03-20 19:54:39 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !info next meeting will be per schedule, Thursday 27 March 15:00 EDT
2025-03-20 19:54:44 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> anything else for this week?
2025-03-20 19:55:22 <@tdawson:fedora.im> Nothing from me
2025-03-20 19:56:43 <@gmoro:matrix.org> all good, :) have to drop now, see you guys
2025-03-20 19:57:33 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> in that case, thanks for coming, and we'll keep in touch in channel
2025-03-20 19:57:36 <@yselkowitz:fedora.im> !endmeeting