16:11:36 <smooge> #startmeeting EPEL-8 Plan
16:11:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Mar  1 16:11:36 2019 UTC.
16:11:36 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
16:11:36 <zodbot> The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:11:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:11:36 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel-8_plan'
16:11:36 <centbot> Meeting started Fri Mar  1 16:11:36 2019 UTC.  The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:11:36 <centbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:12:00 <smooge> #chair tdawson kanarip
16:12:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: kanarip smooge tdawson
16:12:00 <centbot> Current chairs: kanarip smooge tdawson
16:12:12 <smooge> hahahahah double the meetings in one time
16:12:45 <smooge> #topic Review of packages
16:12:49 <tdawson> Whooo hoo :)
16:13:16 <smooge> so currently I have come up with the following info
16:13:45 <smooge> #info RHEL-7.6 has 2728 src RPMs in base
16:13:45 <smooge> #info RHEL-8beta has 2679 src RPMs in base
16:13:45 <smooge> #info There are 1939 src RPMs which overlap
16:14:35 <smooge> #info EPEL-6 has 5930 src RPMs currently (many removed from peak)
16:14:35 <smooge> #info EPEL-7 has 6891 src RPMs currently (some removed from peak)
16:14:35 <smooge> #info RHEL-8beta has 419 EPEL-6 RPM names
16:14:35 <smooge> #info RHEL-8beta has 399 EPEL-7 RPM names
16:15:12 <smooge> #info 6492 EPEL-7 Packages are not in RHEL-8-beta
16:15:12 <smooge> #info 5511 EPEL-6 Packages are not in RHEL-8-beta
16:15:12 <smooge> #info 8149 EPEL-6/7 Packages are not in RHEL-8-beta
16:15:34 <smooge> #info 7945 of that 8149 are still in Fedora 30
16:16:00 <smooge> there are also some packages which are in RHEL-6 and RHEL-7 which aren't in RHEL-8. Those usually get requested to be put in EPEL
16:16:20 <smooge> #info  1017 RHEL-6/7 packages not in RHEL-8-beta but in Fedora 30
16:16:35 <tdawson> So, I had similar numbers, so I agree with yours.  But if a package was in EPEL6, but not EPEL7 ... do we really want to consider it for EPEL8?
16:16:46 <smooge> a lot of people leap frog
16:17:08 <smooge> we have things in EL7 which were EL5
16:17:09 <tdawson> True
16:17:16 <smooge> so I am going to assume that
16:17:18 <tdawson> huh ... ok
16:17:45 <tdawson> When I did my EPEL8 build tests, I only used the 6492 EPEL7 packages not in RHEL8.
16:18:02 <smooge> #topic Missing Build Requirements
16:18:29 <smooge> tdawson, a bunch of the 1017 items have been ones which are needed to build those 6492 packages
16:18:54 <tdawson> That's understandable.
16:19:45 <smooge> #info big culprits python2-sphinx (and deps), groff-perl, qt4-devel, maven tools, gcc-objc, gcc-gnat, compat-openssl10-devel, /usr/bin/python
16:20:21 <tdawson> Ugg ... sphinx  :(
16:20:33 <smooge> sphinx is horrible to rebuild
16:20:36 <smooge> I tried
16:20:52 <smooge> and will need help because it has a weird set of dependencies
16:20:57 <tdawson> I believe it is easiest to just change it to python3-sphinx
16:21:19 <smooge> so I am currently recompiling everything from F30 packages
16:21:26 <tdawson> All it's doing it documentation ... you can use the pyhon3-sphinx in RHEL8
16:21:39 <tdawson> smooge: meaning you are getting your source rpm's from F30?
16:21:42 <smooge> so I was hoping that these would be patched already but most aren't
16:21:46 <smooge> yeah.
16:22:04 <tdawson> Ya ... it's because Fedora hasn't really pushed to get python2 out
16:22:10 <smooge> I started with f29 and then pulled the equivs out of f30 because the python2 to python3 should have been flushed
16:22:19 <tdawson> I'm worried that when python2 goese away, it's going to be a Y2K scenario
16:22:39 <tdawson> goese -> goes
16:22:48 <smooge> however it looks like a lot of stuff was correctly rebuilt because the rawhide buildroot had enough python2 still that it worked
16:23:01 <smooge> it is definitely a Y2k
16:23:25 <smooge> #topic Tdawson's rebuild
16:23:36 <smooge> so I figured you could go over what you did and found
16:24:28 <tdawson> Well, there have been two major rebuilds that I did.  The first sounds similar to what you are doign right now, except I wasn't trying to fix anything, just find numbers and packages.
16:24:38 <smooge> same here
16:24:51 <smooge> I was asked to see if F30 was better
16:24:51 <tdawson> I didn't know we were going to be talking about this, so I don't have my numbers in front of me.
16:25:15 <smooge> no problem.. I was looking for more of a 'oh I did this and it is at this website and my god the patches'
16:25:24 <smooge> and sorry for not telling you that before i did this
16:25:38 <tdawson> Well, the big takeaway from my rebuild, is what has gone into CRB ... those are/were the packages that were in RHEL8 that we needed in order to build as many of the EPEL8 packages as we could.
16:26:46 <tdawson> I *think* (and I'll double check in a few minutes) that I got 4000 packages to build, just with RHEL8, CRB, and as many F29 packages (F29 was rawhide at the time)
16:27:39 <tdawson> I did some blanket changes ... like sphinx, I believe I changed them all to python3-sphinx, and that solved 90% of the problems
16:27:41 <smooge> thanks I really should have sent my agenda earlier and asked if you could give some info
16:28:18 <tdawson> And I believe there were one or two major packages that I had to tweek to get to build.
16:28:33 <smooge> yeah I was hoping to make patching as small as possible since a lot of these packages are done by people who say 'I branched it and tried to build it.. if it works cool otherwise i will retire'
16:28:55 <smooge> but it is clear we will need to a bunch
16:29:04 <tdawson> smooge: Yep, I bet that's going to be the common theme ... unless their work requires it.
16:29:16 <smooge> on the other hand, the pythong fixes can be fed into Fedora for the f31 rebuild
16:29:25 <smooge> even when their work requires it
16:29:32 <tdawson> The second major rebuild I did was KDE.  And that, the first time, was much more invasive.
16:29:44 <smooge> yeah I was looking at that
16:29:50 <tdawson> There are several packages that require QT4
16:30:00 <smooge> i have yet to get that to compile
16:30:01 <tdawson> I spent alot of work pulling QT4 out of RHEL8.
16:30:40 <tdawson> Personally, I think it's time for it to retire.  And I noticed, that in Rawhide, there are starting to be %if qt4 stuff going on.
16:30:42 <smooge> and there are a lot of packages in epel which use it which I never thought of as kde
16:31:55 <tdawson> for my initial KDE rebuild, I did 3 things.  1) bootstrap .. there are alot of circular dependencies  2) remove any qt4, and drop packages that absolutely have to have it, and 3) whever possible, I took out python2 references.
16:32:06 <smooge> when I looked for missing packages in the failed EPEL builds.. the qt4-devel was number 3 next to maven
16:32:12 <tdawson> Oh, and /usr/bin/python references, if possible
16:32:26 <smooge> yeah a ton of those
16:33:19 <smooge> I was looking at a couple failures and such which had them deep inside some script. Again lots of patches
16:33:32 <tdawson> I change /usr/bin/python to /usr/bin/python3 whenever possible, and most of them ran just fine.
16:34:44 <tdawson> smooge: Most of those scripts have just "python" ... which is fixable with that little script I put in the spec file.
16:35:49 <tdawson> smooge: But honestly, I'm surprised at how many of those there are ... I thought Fedora had done a pretty good sweep of pulling out /usr/bin/python from everything.
16:36:00 <smooge> yeah. I expect one of the first requests will be to ship something like the python{2,3}-unversioned-command which can be installed to do the wrong thing
16:36:17 <smooge> tdawson, I think a lot of it is that the upstreams haven't
16:36:48 <smooge> and since many packagers just take what upstream does to not have a lot of extra patches.. it shows up
16:36:50 <tdawson> smooge: Oh, someting I recently hit, is that with F30, it now checks to see if there are any /usr/bin/python or /usr/bin/env python
16:37:07 <smooge> is that mock or rpmbuild?
16:37:41 <tdawson> smooge: I had a package that was happily building on F29, went to build it on F30 (koji) and there were several scripts that had /usr/bin/env in them ...
16:37:46 <tdawson> smooge: koji
16:38:09 <tdawson> smooge: Hopefully that went in before the mass rebuild
16:39:24 <smooge> ah ok
16:39:46 <smooge> thanks again for the info
16:39:48 <tdawson> Here is an example of it failling my package, it's "mangling shebang"'s - https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org//work/tasks/9726/33109726/build.log
16:40:14 <tdawson> smooge: So hopefully, at least by F31 timeframe, we've got all those /usr/bin/python 's cleaned up.
16:40:38 <smooge> that is a whole lot of mangling
16:40:44 <smooge> #topic Where do we go next?
16:41:05 <tdawson> That's a good question
16:41:56 <tdawson> You/I/Others could just take all the packages that we know build, and rebuild them on EPEL8 ... but that defeats the "community" part of EPEL
16:42:15 <tdawson> And leaves You/I/Others with the burdon of supporting all those packages.
16:42:15 <smooge> OK so I was going to look at what would be required to set up a /pub/alt/epel/ and the rules for koji to look at rhel-8 and then build against it
16:42:37 <smooge> so for the RHEL-7 beta that is what we ended up doing
16:42:43 <smooge> and I think the 6 beta also
16:42:44 <tdawson> Oh, have it as an 'alt' ... ok
16:43:04 <smooge> dgilmore did all the builds for that target to show what was available and what wasn't
16:44:17 <smooge> then when RHEL-7 started we put in official branches in CVS? (were we on git yet?) and people could branch their packages if they wanted to have a RHEL-8 one
16:44:39 <tdawson> That sounds like a good plan.
16:44:50 <smooge> this led to a lot of missing packages but it also had us not have the 'I HAVE NO PLANS TO SUPPORT RHEL-X' like we did with EPEL-6
16:45:03 <smooge> when we did it without asking
16:45:58 <smooge> I was thinking that if we have a /pub/alt bare bones that people can fall back on for a while that will let them get working for things and allow packagers time since most of them aren't going to do anything until CentOS-8 is out
16:46:05 <tdawson> Ya ... I don't think doing the real builds without asking is a good idea ... definatly ask, or be prepared to support it.
16:46:42 <tdawson> smooge: Something like mock, fedpkg ... etc ... and their dependencies?
16:46:45 <smooge> and maybe put together an epel-packagers sig which can support more packages like the java/python/etc
16:47:19 <tdawson> smooge: Ohh ... that's a very good idea
16:47:54 <smooge> sorry I didn't  mean bare-bones. I meant the beta stuff
16:48:12 <tdawson> smooge: Although ... maybe it should be specific ... cuz I'm not very good with those java packages ... though maybe that would be the whole idea.
16:48:28 <tdawson> specific as in epel-java-packagers
16:49:06 <smooge> well I think it would need to be less specific.. we are probably going to only have 1 person who does java
16:49:23 <smooge> but we can hum a tune until they get back from walk-about
16:49:24 <tdawson> smooge: Ah, OK.   You give a try at those 8000 package, and KDE, for the /alt/ repo
16:49:55 <tdawson> smooge: :)  OK ... ya.  And sometime the java problems are within my skill range ... sometimes not.
16:50:07 <smooge> did we call 8beta 7.99995 or anything like that
16:50:30 <smooge> so we have most of the packages we can build in /pub/alt/epel/8.beta/Stuff  (or 7.99995 )
16:50:44 <smooge> s/have/would have/
16:51:00 <tdawson> smooge: ick  :) ... I prefer 8.beta
16:51:16 <smooge> okie dokie 8.beta
16:51:57 <smooge> i don't have much else to say at the moment.
16:52:02 <tdawson> smooge: The debate on doing 7.999 for 8 alpha/beta/rc came up ... it got shot down really quick.
16:52:38 <tdawson> smooge: So ... what about putting up some epel pages with helpful hints on common problems that the packagers might hit
16:52:49 <smooge> 7.98.1 for alpha1 7.98.2 for alpha2.. that is old school rhl versioning
16:53:38 <tdawson> smooge: If we get some type of wiki page up, I could add my findings and solutions, and you could add yours as well.
16:53:49 <smooge> yeah. I think we need to write that out first as I am trying to figure out how we are going to fix them. The .local/python patch you used won't fly with our rules
16:54:27 <smooge> tdawson, I have put that down as a deliverable by Monday
16:54:57 <tdawson> smooge: Well, I had to write a 'find | sed" and "grep | sed" section for the package I showed earlier ... so there are different ways to fix the problem, some better than others.
16:55:51 <tdawson> smooge: Sounds like a good deliverable.
16:56:26 <tdawson> smooge: Are we still somewhat on track for the end of March that infrastructure will be ready to start these /alt/ rebuilds?
16:56:39 <smooge> I expect we will need to have some sort of epel-bootstrap-8.beta rpm which we put in the compose root which has various gotchas in it
16:57:09 <smooge> tdawson, I don't know. I have had some priorities shifted this week
16:57:26 <smooge> I am hoping so.. but I won't know until the 15th
16:57:37 <smooge> I will say we are Yellow/Orange
16:57:51 <tdawson> Well, better than red :)
16:58:07 <smooge> this meeting and the plans above moved us from Orange-Red
16:58:28 <tdawson> :(
16:59:05 <smooge> so we are improving
16:59:16 <smooge> now I just need some more blueshifting
16:59:48 <tdawson> Make everything a nice fuzzy green :)
16:59:55 <smooge> ok that is all I have. did you have anything you wanted from this meeting
17:00:39 <tdawson> nope, I think that's all I have.  If you could get a wiki page up (or tell me where a good place to put one is) ... I can start shifting my notes to that.
17:02:14 <smooge> yeah I am trying to think where is a good place.
17:03:04 <smooge> I don't know if EPEL8_beta_known_problems_and_solutions is the right thing or /epel/EPEL8<blah> or ...
17:03:18 <smooge> which is why nothing ever gets documented
17:03:30 <smooge> that other woodshed looks so much nicer than mine
17:03:43 <tdawson> *laughs*
17:03:44 <smooge> ok I will come up with something and drop some starting data in it
17:03:55 <smooge> will email you by end of business today
17:04:05 <smooge> I think I can end this meeting
17:04:05 <tdawson> smooge: OK, thank you
17:04:08 <smooge> #endmeeting