<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:00:02
!startmeeting EPEL Steering Committee
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:05
Meeting started at 2024-02-28 18:00:02 UTC
<@meetbot:fedora.im>
18:00:05
The Meeting name is 'EPEL Steering Committee'
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:00:17
!topic howdy
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:00:18
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:00:19
Neil Hanlon (neil) - he / him / his
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
18:00:33
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:00:34
Yaakov Selkowitz (yselkowitz)
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:02:19
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:02:20
Diego Herrera (dherrera) - he / him / his
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:03:32
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:03:34
Michel Lind (salimma) - he / him / his
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:04:36
!hi
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:04:37
seems like light attendance this week
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:04:41
Davide Cavalca (dcavalca) - he / him / his
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:05:20
I just sent a reminder in that other room
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:06:22
morning
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:06:24
here
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:06:45
.. needs 3 cups of coffee and something to remove the icepick in his eye
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:07:05
!topic End Of Life (EOL) dates
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:07:13
!info RHEL 7 and EPEL 7 will go EOL on 2024-06-30
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:07:18
!link https://endoflife.date/rhel
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:07:23
!info CentOS Stream 8 and EPEL 8 Next goes EOL in 2024-05-31
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:07:31
!link https://endoflife.date/centos-stream
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:08:00
i only feel like bringing up the ones happening this year
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:08:14
!topic EPEL Issues
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:08:20
!link https://pagure.io/epel/issues?tags=meeting&status=Open
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:09:04
no issue! yay
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:09:09
there's nothing tagged for the meeting, does anyone have any existing issues they want to call attention to in this topic?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:09:35
I don't have any, I do have something for open floor
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:10:25
ok moving on then
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:10:28
!topic Old Business
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:10:43
outside of the issue tracker, does anyone have any old business to revisit?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:11:29
how many coconuts has Troy bowled with?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:11:33
I guess I have a quick one
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:12:04
mailman introduced a new package recently, mailman-web, which we initially missed. it's now in EPEL9 together with one extra dep that was not there (python-whoosh)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:12:17
EPEL Packagers SIG got saddled with more packages :P
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:12:49
whoosh is a helluva name for a piece of software
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:13:42
it goes over my head
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:13:43
whoosh
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:14:17
!hi
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
18:14:20
Neal Gompa (ngompa) - he / him / his
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:14:46
Conan Kudo: when I auth to add a group to the ACL for mailman-web I keep getting redirected to another dist-git package I opened recently and then it 405's. weird.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:15:09
and now I can't repro
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:15:10
something is goofy about the ipsilon redirect
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:16:30
anyway, that is solved. anyone else has old business?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:16:36
i guess i have one
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:17:02
regarding the meeting conflict last week with the server wg, i spoke with peter about it some more
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:17:49
after some initial pushback, he agreed that it could be brought up for discussion at the next server wg meeting (which is next wednesday)
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
18:19:12
just in time for DST to destroy us all.
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:19:24
he seems pretty set of having the meeting rotate times so it's always the same time for him in germany, so if we were to co-exist in the #meeting:fedoraproject.org room they would have to move an hour earlier (with their rotation), or we would have to move an hour later (which based on our whenisgood is simply not going to work)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:19:25
ugh
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:19:44
worst case scenario we just stay here in -1, but it's at least worth a discussion i think
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:19:50
the overlap between Server users and EPEL contributors is high too
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:20:03
I don't really want to do double/triple duty for meetings
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:20:07
yes i brought that up, that it would be better for people to be able to attend both
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:20:18
I don't think we want to move later, it's late enough for EU
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:20:21
in fact that's the most important aspect
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:20:37
so yeah for him since he's set on EU-floating time moving earlier would help him right?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:20:55
I personally can do either meeting earlier, but I take it some people have conflicts if we go one hour early
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:21:09
possibly, but he seemed fairly against any change at all, but i was able to persuade him to at least discuss it at their next meeting
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:21:16
I am for a pig wrestling match determines the winner of the channel and timeslot
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:21:21
one hour early puts us in conflict with Stream and EPEL open hours
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:21:30
Server users who use it to dogfood Stream and RHEL I guess?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:21:37
and two hours early is Hyperscale conflict
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:21:48
(wearing my work hat, we don't since we just dogfood ELN straight instead)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:22:14
who here apart from Neal attend Server meetings regularly though
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:22:29
i brought up that the 1800 timeslot for epel was really our only option
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:22:38
if they need to talk to you (for image issues) they should find a time that work with your other commitments :)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:22:53
so if you're interested in being able to attend both meetings, show up to their next meeting to voice that concern
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:23:16
I probably will
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
18:23:37
does that mean no sig meeting next week here? /ducks
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:24:02
sig meeting? you mean the steering commitee meeting (this one)?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:24:03
no it means I'm doing double duty next week
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:24:19
(or potentially triple duty depending on scheduling)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:24:51
we could always skip the meeting next week, since troy is out anyways
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:25:32
should we vote on that
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:25:59
Please vote.. do we skip next weeks meeting?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:26:01
+1
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:26:13
next week is an epel office hours meeting, so we'd still have a chance to talk about anything pressing
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:26:21
I'm ok with skipping
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:26:24
then definitely +1 from me
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:26:27
some of us will be at SCaLE two weeks from now
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:26:49
though I think there's nothing on the Wednesday so we can still do a meeting? maybe with some of us in person silently typing instead of talking to each other :P
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:26:58
yeah, let's skip next week's - +1
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:27:01
indeed, i believe i'll be on a plane during this meeting time on the 13th
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:27:17
Yes, we should skip the SCaLE week one
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:27:26
oh wait, Davide Cavalca and I will be at some work outing that day
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:27:38
so skip two meetings in a row, and just do the EPEL office hour next week?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:27:40
i'm +1 to my own suggestion of skipping
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:27:44
+1
<@dherrera:fedora.im>
18:27:57
+1
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:28:02
yeah we'll be fine, we can always chat async if something comes up
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:28:08
is there a special matrix bot command for votes, or do we just use `!info`
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:16
I think just info
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:28:22
use `!agreed`
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:28:27
a poll bot would be so nice, I miss it from platforms that have it
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:29:44
!agreed EPEL SIG will skip 2024-03-06 meeting
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:30:28
ah, `!agreed` is what i wanted
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:30:31
Should we vote for the 03-13 too?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:30:37
!info Next EPEL Street Committee will be on chat on 2023-03-13
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:31:10
!info Next EPEL Steering committee (thanks autocorrect) office hours will still be on 2023-03-06
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:32:09
i think for the 3-13 one, troy will be back, and it's just a few of us that will be out for scale
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:32:23
i'm fine skipping if others want to, but i'm not sure it's necessary
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:32:29
this has been my usual Coup-de-tat of the EPEL Steering Committee meeting when Troy is away. Alexander Haig OUT
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:32:33
you, me, Davide, and Michel will at least be gone
<@jrichardson:matrix.org>
18:34:17
Smooge and I will plan something sinister like Pinky and The Brain
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:25
ok let's move this along, what topic were we on?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:36
i think old biz
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:35:41
!topic Open Floor
<@yselkowitz:fedora.im>
18:35:54
epel 10 schedule?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:36:16
i can speak to that a bit, but i believe Michel Lind🎩 said he had something first
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:36:47
Ah one sec
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:37:14
I will ask to get llvm15 and clang15 branched for epel9 as soon as I get local builds tested
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:37:36
Since app stream dropped 15 and only has 16 and 17 now
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:38:01
gold linker is missing but other things should be there
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:38:35
i think the only reason 16 is there is because there have only been 4 builds of 17 published. as soon as another build is published 16 will drop off.
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:38:56
Good to know
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:39:12
Will have to check if we need 16 too at work, I think we just need 15 and 17
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:39:31
llvm is a "rolling appstream", meaning it just has a single maintained version that can be rebased
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:40:00
golang and rust are the same
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:41:37
i think parallel versions of stuff in epel is a great idea in general, so godspeed
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:42:55
it might lead to less breakages for stuff like clazy too
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:43:36
It's already there for 14 and 13, I guess nobody asked for 15 yet
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:44:26
ok for the epel10 schedule, it's best to describe it working backwards from the rhel10.0 launch
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:45:14
rhel9.0 was launched on 2022-05, so people can reasonably expect rhel10.0 3 years later, give or take a month, so 2025-05 (approx)
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:45:38
boy devconf.cz this year will be fun
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:45:56
(and summit, but not sure I can get in)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:46:12
about six months before that is when i think the 10 beta will come out, and also about when i think centos will do something resembling a "release" announcement for c10s
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:46:37
about six months before that is when i think the 10 beta will come out, and also about when i think centos will do something resembling a "release" announcement for c10s, so around 2024-12
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:46:54
I would expect 2024-11 because 12 is a dead month
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:47:04
true
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:47:13
my goal is to have epel10 fully online and available for packagers about that time, similar to what we did for epel9
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:47:14
but that is also a great time to drop a whopper
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:47:21
possibly with joint c10s messaging
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:47:42
we need to open up epel10 earlier, right, we just hope to be complete by EOY?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:48:20
yes i would like things to be online sooner, but that's the "must" date imo, and also when we should announce it
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:48:30
there's also going to be devconf.us too
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:48:53
i'm fine with a soft launch of things earlier than that for interested packagers to start poking (which is going to happen anyways as soon as the build targets exist)
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:49:12
yeah that would be really useful
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:49:30
the sooner something is out, even if incomplete/wip, the sooner we can start testing and providing feedback and fixing things
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:49:39
which should lead to a much better product at release
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:49:44
Troy and I previously discussed hoping to get KDE Plasma landed in EPEL 10 this summer
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:49:58
i don't have any dates between now and november/december as specific targets, just a whole pile of work
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:50:04
https://composes.stream.centos.org/stream-10/production/latest-CentOS-Stream/ are looking pretty decent (modulo not being signed)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:50:25
so hopefully we can get the infrastructure up sometime between now and F40 GA
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:50:52
i don't think that's realistic
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:51:05
there are a lot of moving pieces
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:51:15
you don't think we can wire up EPEL 10 targets in 2 months?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:51:38
no, i don't
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:51:53
hmm
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:52:00
the constraint is likely Fedora infra folks like nirik needing to be available right?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:52:12
yeah, that makes sense
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:52:14
it's also not just the build targets, there is bodhi, mirrormanager, fedpkg, scm todler, mdapi, and more
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:52:15
and also ... mailman rebuild needs to happen before EL7 EOL :(
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:52:18
they'll be tied up with F40
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:52:24
plus F40, yes
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:52:37
busy spring/summer
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:52:45
plus the Fire of the Week, of course
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:53:19
related news, the SCaLE folks might be trying to rebuild their mailman deployment this year at the conference, so at least we get some dogfooding between that and CentOS infra before Fedora has to move
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:53:20
can we help with some of these tasks?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:53:22
me and my team have started working on a few things, but as you mentioned lots of it is reliant on when releng can focus on us
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:53:35
(by we I mean, people not at RH / not in releng)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:53:56
yeah, if we can help out with getting things moving, let's try
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:53:58
sure, i don't think any of it is red hat internal
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:54:02
i'm also planning to re-do the Rocky mailman with the epel packages sometime before the EOL.. so.. yeah
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:54:06
well, maybe the signing key, but that's done already
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:54:11
I can help with mirrormangler
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:54:19
I can add you to our coordination chat
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:54:21
manager*
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:54:29
https://hackmd.io/@carlwgeorge/S1r2tzZsp is where we're tracking things we know about so far
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:54:40
if something happens to the mirrors we know what it is then ;)
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:54:48
excellent thanks, I was about to ask for a breakdown of the tasks
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:55:02
if someone wants to volunteer to get the epel10 key into distribution-gpg-keys, that would be great
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:55:08
that I can do
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:55:22
everything before 'mirror c10' seems relatively simple right
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:55:25
I have gotten very familiar with that package :D
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:55:38
do we have that key yet?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:55:46
yes
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:55:47
oh yes we do
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:55:56
!action Neal to get epel10 key into distribution-gpg-keys
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:56:30
to be clear the cpe epel team isn't licking cookies here, we'll take all the help we can get
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:56:38
the epel10 one yeah, I think the c10s one is still up in the air (or at least I haven't seen one yet)
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:56:54
(licking cookies is a new phrase i learned recently about putting your name on something then squatting on it)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:56:58
lol
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:57:04
I haven't heard that phrase since I was 5
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:57:14
right but the c10s is not in our control (as a collective here, some individuals here of course work on it)
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:57:33
as soon as the c10s keys are available, I can also get them into distribution-gpg-keys
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:57:40
it might make sense to hold off on distro-gpg-keys work until you can add both c10s and epel10
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:57:45
so... I understand there might be complications getting things signed, but... getting a signing key created should be simple right?
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:57:47
one pr i mean
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:57:52
yeah
<@salimma:fedora.im>
18:57:54
any idea why we can't get the key now?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:58:08
the infrastructure doesn't exist yet, I think?
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:58:14
unless they plan to reuse the key again
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:58:16
we have the epel10 key, i don't know who does the c10s one
<@davide:cavalca.name>
18:58:17
yeah I don't even know if it's been assigned yet
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
18:58:37
that would be a question for the centos office hours
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:58:38
keys for CentOS Stream are 'complicated'
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:58:44
~_~
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:58:50
😒
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:58:50
they require hardware updates
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
18:58:59
oh right, I remember this mess
<@smooge:fedora.im>
18:59:32
let us just say getting Microsoft to sign updated shims is an easier/faster process and leave it at that
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
18:59:44
ouch.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:00:08
oooof
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:00:11
that's _bad_
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:00:16
i expect that the work to get them in place has started a while ago, and when various things arrive, timed, etc they will happen
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
19:00:20
is it sigul? can I blame sigul?
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:00:26
no
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
19:00:29
damn.
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:00:36
CentOS doesn't use sigul, AFAIK?
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:00:45
huh
<@conan_kudo:matrix.org>
19:00:48
sigul is still in _a state_
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
19:00:56
rocky uses it for 8, but we moved to Keykeeper (our own) for 9
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:01:00
sigul is in a much better state
<@nirik:matrix.scrye.com>
19:01:08
centos uses some HSM IIRC
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:01:09
oh, you need to buy a new hardware device for the new key I guess
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:01:16
we're at time so i'm going to kick us out and over to the main channel for further discussion
<@salimma:fedora.im>
19:01:21
and generate the key on device, so no hw, no key
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:01:24
thanks y'all for coming, and thanks for everything y'all do for epel
<@nhanlon:beeper.com>
19:01:27
ack. thanks for running Carl George !
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:01:34
thnaks
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:01:34
salimma has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F39 timeframe
<@jrichardson:matrix.org>
19:01:37
thanks for running things Carl George
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:01:41
Carl George++
<@zodbot:fedora.im>
19:01:42
smooge has already given cookies to carlwgeorge during the F39 timeframe
<@smooge:fedora.im>
19:01:46
boo
<@carlwgeorge:matrix.org>
19:01:47
!endmeeting