17:13:31 #startmeeting 17:13:31 Meeting started Fri Nov 21 17:13:31 2014 UTC. The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:13:31 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 17:13:38 #meetingname epel 17:13:38 The meeting name has been set to 'epel' 17:13:57 #chairs nirik bstinson smooge Evolution dgilmore 17:14:10 #topic Robot Role Call 17:14:24 * nirik is here mostly 17:14:28 I was just browsing through emails to see if the meeting had been cancelled, but apparently the meeting is going on now 17:14:29 * bstinson is here 17:14:40 is here 17:14:55 my apologies guys. I got muddled 17:15:36 * rdieter lurking with popcorn 17:15:38 ok we have 2.5 of 5 people 17:15:38 * bstinson got distracted building packages 17:16:00 that's always a good excuse, doing useful things 17:16:01 * orionp wishes he had popcorn 17:16:16 * smooge wishes he had a coffee 17:16:39 * nirik has coffee. yummy vanilla roast. 17:16:56 nice. 17:17:14 sorry. present 17:17:14 #topic Agenda 17:17:21 1. Roll Call 17:17:28 2. Old Business 17:17:34 3. Current Business 17:17:48 4. Upcoming meetings business 17:17:56 5. Open Flood 17:17:59 6. End of Meeting 17:18:12 #topic Old Business: Dates and logistics 17:18:46 so we have a bunch of stuff going on next month. Removal of packages and bug stompig 17:19:22 would be nice if we could have an email to the list covering the bug stomping. 17:19:35 then we can reference it for centos-devel, twitter, etc. 17:19:51 * nirik nods. 17:20:06 i have worked with pingou and we have a calender: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/epel/ 17:20:38 December 2nd is bug stomping day 17:21:41 I understand about the email. 17:21:55 I was thinking that the main things we would want to do is any outstanding package reviews 17:22:13 and any CVE's for packages which aren't orphaned 17:22:26 do others have ideas? 17:22:43 yeah, those sound good. There's likely to be just random other ones that were never closed we can close too... 17:23:28 sounds good. 17:23:47 we could also perhaps look at what packages have the most bugs and see if we can help 17:24:52 alright.. I will try and make up a list this weekend. 17:25:36 alright the next thing was Orphan Removal Day and then Dependency Removal Day 17:26:15 I have put out another email. I have gotten one person saying they would like to look at becoming a packager but don't know how 17:26:16 also known as 'watch the world burn' 17:26:36 hopefully during bug day we can reassign some of the primary contacts and get the list shorter 17:27:18 there are a couple that will get people to take notice. like openvpn. 17:27:28 I have taken pkcs11 17:27:40 oh, well that spoils the fun :-P 17:27:47 heh 17:28:16 my next question is do we want to reach out to the secondary people and ask if they want to take the packages? 17:28:27 they have been getting god knows how many emails for how long on this 17:29:09 yeah, if they haven't reacted so far... 17:29:19 i've pinged people with ACLs for the packages i depend on 17:29:35 I think we will also have a number of "oh no! I need that" after we retire. But thats fine too... we can unretire them with a new point of contact. ;) 17:29:36 nirik, they do get emails that the package they are assigned is orphaned and its just a simple log in and press a button and its yours 17:29:37 so far nobody's answered 17:29:49 smooge: yep. 17:30:02 nirik: yeah, agree. once they see we're serious it should hopefully pick up 17:30:03 I am getting some for epel5 packages, but I don't actually want to save any of those. ;) 17:30:06 I did it yesterday with pkcs11. 17:30:57 I might be willing to maintain some packages if need be, but the problem is that I'm not officially a pkg maintainer yet. I'd need to read up a bit on the procedures. 17:32:05 is there a subset of epel-wranglers who are also sponsors? 17:32:18 * nirik is happy to sponsor new folks. 17:32:25 I think rdieter and nirik 17:32:31 I expect the best way here would be to use the 'co-maintainer' clause. 17:32:43 what is that clause? 17:32:52 find someone who wants to mentor you that maintains some package, and you can be sponsored in to co-maintain and go from there. 17:32:59 * nirik looks for link 17:33:31 oh a clause for how to become a packager not a clause in package names 17:33:33 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_get_sponsored_into_the_packager_group?rd=PackageMaintainers/HowToGetSponsored#Become_a_co-maintainer 17:33:36 yeah. 17:33:40 * orionp can sponsor too 17:34:33 i can probably take a couple of packages and help people join via the co-maintainer process 17:35:37 more maintainers is great. ;) 17:37:42 #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_get_sponsored_into_the_packager_group?rd=PackageMaintainers/HowToGetSponsored#Become_a_co-maintainer 17:37:56 ok anything else? 17:38:19 #topic Current Business: Fix a webpage 17:38:44 Alright I was going through the EPEL webpages and all I wanted to do was burn them to the ground and salt the earth after 5 minutes 17:39:39 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:EPEL 17:39:53 well, that could be done, but someone needs to write up new pages. 17:39:56 It's a lot of actual work. 17:39:56 Wikis I think are places where information goes to die unless you have a librarian 17:40:11 I did the last revamp many years ago, and it was long and thankless. ;) 17:40:24 I agree. My hopes of getting that time keeps getting eaten by "Hey can you do this." 17:41:05 3 years ago: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/EPEL_Wiki_Redesign 17:42:04 #proposal Follow the steps in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kevin/EPEL_Wiki_Redesign 17:42:14 I am good with doing this 17:42:17 well, that was the last redesign 3 years ago. 17:42:41 some of it didn't 'take'. Like spreading out the faq stuff to areas people might look for them in and nuking the faq. 17:42:50 the faq page is a novel. 17:43:51 I agree 17:44:12 anyhow, I don't currently have time, but would be happy to help others who want to do it. 17:44:22 would cleaning up the faq give us the most value right now? 17:44:28 I believe so. 17:45:03 but I am 2 seconds from nuking it all from orbit and nuking the nukes from orbit 17:45:28 How can i help out? I'm trying to get some experience doing technical writing right now, I have experience in localization, and I have nothing else to do until the end of the year 17:46:37 * stahnma reads the scrollback 17:47:01 well, the faq could definitely be cleaned up. 17:47:24 I don't have any hate for the other pages off hand... 17:48:10 nirik, my hate is mostly that they are spread out and cover things like plague, meetings from 2007, and other things that someone comes in and says "hey can I get an account on duke server?" 17:48:18 [from last summer] 17:48:36 well, we should archive those pages... I thought I got them all in the 2011 cleanup. 17:48:50 can you point to specific pages? 17:48:53 +1 for archiving old meeting notes 17:50:10 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Meetings/20070318 17:50:25 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Packages/mediawiki118 17:50:50 nirik, most of the pages at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:EPEL seem to be like this 17:51:06 there's some, I don't know that I would say most. 17:51:15 I can try and archive those... if I can remember how. 17:51:37 I have a poor random number selector as my dice rolls kept coming up with stuff like that 17:51:57 welp I failed today :/ 17:53:09 heffay, so I would like to say.. take the FAQ page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/FAQ and start breaking it up into separate documents which the main faq could refer to. 17:53:22 If you noticed its layout is not in mediawiki fashion 17:53:38 it is in moinmoin fashion EPEL/FAQ versus EPEL_FAQ 17:54:02 alright, I think I'm caught up... sorry for being so horridly late 17:54:51 so you could start off in your homespace User:heffay/EPEL_FAQ and then EPEL_FAQ_What_is_EPEL is the part pulled into EPEL_FAQ 17:54:58 heffay, does that make sense? 17:57:32 well ping me after the meeting as I am not sure you are still there :) 17:57:59 #topic Upcoming Things to Ponder 17:58:12 So I have a couple of things here 17:58:37 1) What to do with EPEL-5 as no one seems to love it but people seem to think its getting love and attention 17:58:52 2) What about EPEL-rolling that was proposed a couple of times in the past 17:59:26 I think EL-5 will get a bit clearer after the mass orphaning and removals 18:00:41 as el5 is still supported(-ish) for a little while longer... I think the best this to let epel-5 bleed to death via the slow murder of orphaned packages. 18:00:45 yeah, I think there are things in epel5 people still use and like, but they are just coasting along. 18:00:47 +1 - agreed on the EPEL-5 thing, but I just worry users won't really notice 18:01:02 The second one needs a formal proposal which I am looking at what kinds of things FESCO looks for as formal proposals as we are going to need disk space and machine time 18:01:07 errr... they won't notice that things got removed that are already installed 18:01:12 so, smooge brought up something at LISA that seemed a good idea. 18:01:21 oh I was going to say you brought it up 18:01:27 an update to dead packages explicitly stating that it's dead. 18:01:48 by dropping a 'NO-SERIOUSLY-READ-THIS' file or whatever 18:01:53 inside 18:01:58 basically one of the following two things 18:02:26 before a package is removed it is given one last update which says "THIS FILE IS DEAD. WE DONT REMOVE IT BUT ITS NOT GETTING ANYTHING FROM UPSTREAM ANYMORE." 18:02:34 hmm, I missed the meeting start... are they staying at the same time on Fridays? 18:02:58 Jeff_S, I missed the meeting start myself and I started the meeting. 18:03:03 heh 18:03:04 I have moved the time to 1700 UTC 18:03:18 I'm doubtfull anyone who isn't paying attention will notice a new file in an update like that. 18:03:21 ok, thanks, I'll re-add to calendar 18:03:23 It is at https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/epel 18:03:39 #info Please people watch meeting times at https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/epel 18:03:44 I had no idea that existed, thanks smooge :) 18:04:17 sorry I am on sudafed and pain killers so I hope I didn't offend anyone 18:04:54 lsm5@redhat.com changed the Status on bug 1058715 from NEW --- to CLOSED WONTFIX. 18:04:54 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1058715 python-meld3, unspecified, unspecified, ---, extras-orphan, CLOSED WONTFIX, Push epel 7 build for python-meld3 18:04:59 could we also change the release "-2.deprecated" for example? 18:05:04 lsm5@redhat.com changed the Status on bug 1056792 from ASSIGNED --- to CLOSED WONTFIX. 18:05:05 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1056792 supervisor, unspecified, unspecified, ---, steve.traylen, CLOSED WONTFIX, push epel7 build 18:05:21 bstinson: not at all easily. 18:06:06 nirik, we spend a lot of time trying to make sure that EPEL doesn't break anything. We haven't pulled stuff from EPEL in the past because of that. I am just trying to figure out a way to end packages that we can say "we did our best." 18:06:30 yeah, it's a foggy area... 18:06:47 and I don't know if I am going overkill on it 18:07:08 we could go to all kinds of lengths, but in the end people can bypass all those if they are oblivious. 18:07:12 Since we don't archive stuff like we do with other releases 18:07:41 * bstinson ponders some more (and runs to the next meeting) 18:07:52 ok well we now don't have quorum 18:07:54 I guess we could make a 'epel-depreciated-packages' or something that conflict with packages that are dead... so they have to remove it... but even then they could just do that and never read why it's that way 18:08:27 so it is more of a way to ponder for next meeting 18:09:05 I was actually thinking of a file in epel-release that gets updated when stuff is removed :).. but then we are at the epel-release is getting updated and automated builds are broken 18:09:08 if there's a proposal, could we vote in trac? 18:09:10 s/builds/install 18:09:35 there isn't a proposal yet.. it is a "we need to figure out something to propose :)" 18:10:09 yeah, updating epel-release on every package removal is sub optimal 18:11:36 OK so lets move to think about it and some proposals to cocordant vote on in the future :) 18:11:45 #topic Open Flood 18:11:50 anything for the open floor? 18:14:35 ok going to call the end of the meeting 18:14:37 #endmeeting