18:01:35 <smooge> #startmeeting EPEL (2019-02-13)
18:01:35 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Feb 13 18:01:35 2019 UTC.
18:01:35 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
18:01:35 <zodbot> The chair is smooge. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:35 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:35 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2019-02-13)'
18:01:43 <smooge> #meetingname epel
18:01:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
18:01:51 <smooge> #topic Chair and Introductions
18:02:02 <smooge> #chair avij bstinson Evolution nirik smooge pgreco tdawson
18:02:02 <zodbot> Current chairs: Evolution avij bstinson nirik pgreco smooge tdawson
18:02:13 <smooge> Hello everyone
18:02:20 <tdawson> Hello
18:02:27 <pgreco> hello
18:02:42 <bstinson> hey all, i'm in the middle of like 3 incidents. i'll try my hardest to pay attention for action items
18:04:16 <Evolution> sorry I'm late.
18:04:18 <smooge> #action bstinson says he will take all the items
18:04:27 <Evolution> oh, just in time. I agree with this action
18:04:37 <smooge> #topic Agenda
18:04:58 <smooge> #info Smooge didn't send out an agenda (* AGAIN!!! *)
18:05:16 <nirik> morning
18:05:26 <smooge> #topic DevConf Summary
18:05:54 <smooge> So Kevin and I went to Devconf and met with many people in the late January
18:06:21 <smooge> there were a lot of meetings with modularity and other people on what will be needed for trying to get EPEL-8 possible
18:06:33 <smooge> I am still writing up the summary and will send that out later today
18:06:58 <smooge> The high level is that for EPEL-8-beta we will have only non-modular packages built
18:07:20 <tdawson> Will we be able to use modules for building?
18:07:33 <nirik> not initially.
18:08:17 <tdawson> OK
18:08:20 <smooge> depending on who we spoke with.. we can build with default modules only.. or we can fail a lot
18:08:24 <nirik> but everything is subject to change... we need to make a beta and see how it all goes.
18:08:38 <pgreco> non-modular, but can they depend on modules as a build-req?
18:08:52 <Evolution> pgreco: yes.
18:08:56 <Evolution> default modules.
18:09:09 <pgreco> I'm specially thinking about something that Petr said at the dojo
18:09:20 <Evolution> there's a tooling change required to make this work.
18:09:37 <smooge> again we will see when we set it up. for the beta the tooling changes may not be in place and working
18:09:43 <smooge> after the beta we will know
18:10:44 <nirik> in order to get that working we have to have a tool that takes the rhel8 modular repos and makes them back into distinct modules.
18:12:32 <avij> hi, sorry I'm late -- I have a double booking, I'm not at a proper computer at the moment
18:12:37 <smooge> Evolution, bstinson nirik was there anything else high level I forgot to add?
18:12:42 <smooge> hi avij
18:12:51 <Evolution> smooge: seems about right
18:12:54 <tdawson> Will our initial build repo's contain what is somtimes called the "CRB" ?
18:13:01 <smooge> yes
18:13:10 <tdawson> cool
18:13:12 <smooge> I have been told we won't compile much otherwise
18:13:17 <smooge> like anything
18:13:44 <tdawson> smooge: You can ... I've tried ... but you can compile much much more with it.
18:14:03 <smooge> The 3 repositories that EPEL-8-beta will a) not conflict with and b) will build with are: Base, Appstream and Code Ready Linux Builder.
18:14:53 <smooge> It will not compile and may  conflict with High Availability or Resilient because those are to be limited user channels
18:15:28 <smooge> and their projects have requested we specifically don't use them
18:15:42 <smooge> that is all I have from that.
18:15:56 <smooge> #topic EPEL policy proposals
18:16:20 <smooge> I sent out an email shortly before the meeting which will be up for approval/change/disapproval next meeting
18:16:43 <smooge> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Changes/Minor_release_based_composes
18:17:09 <smooge> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Changes/Release_based_package_lifetimes
18:17:18 <smooge> (not sure if link works or not)
18:17:47 <smooge> These are two policy changes which will affect EPEL-7 but will help make EPEL-8 a lot easier to produce
18:18:19 <smooge> Please read, review, edit the wiki pages please
18:19:11 <smooge> and thanks to everyone who has given tips on it before
18:19:21 <nirik> so if everyoone is on board, we start that with the next 7.x?
18:19:33 <smooge> I was going to start before then if possible
18:19:38 <pgreco> 1 minor release is ~6-8 months
18:19:39 <tdawson> bi-annual ... that is meaning every 6 months, correct?  not every two years?
18:19:58 <smooge> correct. biennial is every two years
18:20:06 <tdawson> Ahh ... ok, thanks
18:20:14 <smooge> I had to look that up several times
18:20:16 <pgreco> tdawson thanks for the question
18:20:24 <smooge> it means twice a year
18:20:42 <pgreco> wrt to release based, I was saying that 13 months is closer to 2 minor releases
18:20:58 <pgreco> with our current schedule of ~6-8 months
18:21:55 <smooge> so my main point is for the last major.minor release where 6.10 might be out there for over 13 months. I wasn't sure how to word that case
18:22:24 <pgreco> smooge, I meant for 7.x
18:22:35 <pgreco> no changes for 6.x sounds logic
18:22:44 <smooge> yeah.. eventually there will be a 7.11 type release where it will fall into the same camp
18:23:09 <smooge> but I could be trying to be too perfect and just go for good
18:23:25 <smooge> when it comes up we deal with it?
18:23:31 <smooge> versus code it in now
18:24:30 <smooge> so I would like to test this out soon after it is approved for the current 7.6 release because of the Python34/36 changeover
18:25:17 <smooge> but it may make sense to do the changeover and then do it on the next release
18:25:51 <pgreco> question wrt maintainers, what happens if a someone just stops doing it? without your guidelines I mean
18:25:53 <tdawson> So if you test it, then python34 would go into the archive, with python36 being the new one ... correct?
18:26:21 <pgreco> does anybody have the power to update something? in case of a CVE or something like it?
18:26:32 <smooge> pgreco, proven packagers do
18:26:36 <nirik> sure, provenpackages can...
18:26:59 <pgreco> can, yes, but my question goes more to the "should"?
18:27:13 <pgreco> etiquette and all....
18:27:17 <smooge> pgreco, I don't think we have anyway to do must
18:27:26 <nirik> there's a page on that. :)
18:27:39 <smooge> ah goo
18:27:41 <smooge> d
18:27:50 * pgreco would like to read that... :)
18:27:55 <smooge> I should have looked at that
18:28:13 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Who_is_allowed_to_modify_which_packages
18:28:53 <smooge> tdawson, my next subject would go into my python36 idea
18:29:17 <nirik> One thing to avoid IMHO is packages where some provenpackagers are keeping it updated/alive, but aren't the maintainer... then people file bugs and no one reads them. ;(
18:30:41 <smooge> nirik, well I figured that was the case for various 'low-maintenance' packages already :/
18:30:59 <tdawson> nirik: And I don't think that is an EPEL-only problem.
18:31:18 <nirik> quite right on both counts. ;)
18:31:18 <smooge> it is hard to tell if they are there because they are low-maintenance or that no one is checking the bugzilla queue etc :)
18:32:17 <smooge> ok if nothing else on this.. please read, comment and fix. We will vote up/down next week
18:32:22 <tdawson> And on the flip side, if you were the original maintainer, are no longer with a project where you added a package ... and you have no idea if anyone is still using the package or not ... but ... I guess that's a different topic.
18:32:37 <tdawson> smooge: Will do
18:32:48 <smooge> #topic Python34 to Python36 rebuild and migration
18:34:11 <smooge> So the python people have done a bunch of rebuilds and most packages 'built' without changes. the broken packages will need provenpackager fixes and then we also need a bunch of testing
18:34:59 <nirik> looked like a number of the failures were deps that need to be added/built, so there might be ordering issues too...
18:35:42 <smooge> yeah. I would like to get ideas on where we want to go next?
18:36:33 <nirik> well, at some point we just need to schedule it and do it and clean up the broken parts afterward.
18:37:36 <pgreco> if there is a clear order on that, it is going to be useful when I rebuild the armhfp
18:38:00 <smooge> make 'fixes' to the copr to get them all to rebuild and then put up for testing.. schedule a proven packager day and force through the changes?
18:38:40 <nirik> I doubt we will get to 100%.... but yeah
18:38:48 <smooge> there is a suggestion from 2 testers to not use obsoletes and only conflict on the main python36 package. The upgrade process seems easier if only those conflict
18:39:36 <smooge> My plan after this meeting is write up the EPEL-8 items, and set up a EL7 box to test a python34 and htne try using that copr to upgrade
18:39:55 <smooge> tdawson and nirik  I believe are our provenpackagers
18:40:36 <nirik> I'd be happpy to review pr's/patches for python36
18:40:58 <smooge> so I was thinking when we do it we should make sure it is a time frame you are available
18:41:20 <smooge> versus neck deep in F30 crunch time
18:41:45 <smooge> thank you nirik
18:42:24 <nirik> yeah, lets schedule a day. Unfortunately I am moving at some point and not sure when that is. Should be back to normal after that
18:42:31 <tdawson> smooge: Other than the end of march, most of my stuff can be worked around, so, as long as you miss the last couple weeks of march, I'm ok.
18:42:36 <smooge> ok that is all I have to say on this. [That was the other thing]
18:42:41 <nirik> might also be good to go with a time when fedora is frozen or not too busy
18:43:22 <smooge> beta freeze starts tuesday 2018-03-05
18:43:36 <smooge> how does 2019-03-07 sound
18:44:19 <smooge> that should have been 2019-03-05 (yes the checks I wrote today are still the wrong year)
18:44:48 <smooge> so that would be the first week of March. Fedora Infra should be in a freeze and we should have 'ample' cycles
18:44:55 <nirik> could work
18:45:03 <tdawson> 2019-03-07 sounds good to me
18:45:38 <smooge> #info Python34 to Python36 build time is scheduled for 2019-03-07 . plan to be posted to list after meeting
18:46:25 <nirik> if someone could send a calendar invite so we don't forget, that would be cool.
18:46:31 <smooge> doing it
18:47:22 <smooge> #topic Open Floor
18:47:32 <smooge> that was all I have for this meeting with no agenda
18:48:59 <tdawson> It covered everything I was wondering about.
18:50:39 <smooge> I have added the meeting to the epel calendar
18:50:44 <pgreco> nothing from me
18:50:51 <smooge> ok that is all and I think we are done for the day.
18:50:54 <smooge> thank you all for coming
18:51:04 <avij> Thanks
18:51:08 <smooge> tip the waiter.. he has to put up with me all the time while you get to go home
18:51:14 <smooge> #endmeeting