21:00:49 <tdawson> #startmeeting EPEL (2020-05-01)
21:00:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri May  1 21:00:49 2020 UTC.
21:00:49 <zodbot> This meeting is logged and archived in a public location.
21:00:49 <zodbot> The chair is tdawson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:00:49 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
21:00:49 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel_(2020-05-01)'
21:00:51 <tdawson> #meetingname epel
21:00:51 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'epel'
21:00:53 <tdawson> #chair nirik tdawson bstinson Evolution pgreco carlwgeorge
21:00:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: Evolution bstinson carlwgeorge nirik pgreco tdawson
21:00:54 <tdawson> #topic aloha
21:01:09 <nirik> morning
21:01:18 <pgreco> hi everybody
21:01:34 <tdawson> Hi nirik
21:01:37 <tdawson> Hi pgreco
21:01:45 <smooge> smooge is here
21:01:51 <tdawson> Hi smooge
21:01:53 <carlwgeorge> howdy yall
21:02:35 <tdawson> Hi carlwgeorge
21:04:00 <bstinson> yay friday
21:04:06 <tdawson> I'll give it one more minute, see who else shows up
21:05:17 <tdawson> #topic Old Business
21:05:19 <tdawson> #info EPEL-6 is End of Life in 2020-11. It will be moved to archives in 2020-12
21:05:20 <tdawson> #info THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
21:05:43 <tdawson> Six months left ... at lteast until EOL
21:06:06 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-7
21:06:28 <tdawson> Anything for EPEL7 ?
21:06:32 <smooge> #info CentOS-7.8 came out
21:06:47 <smooge> #info time to look for broken things
21:06:53 <tdawson> :)
21:06:55 <smooge> thats it from me
21:06:57 <nirik> I had a tiny note for 6... latest koji is now in epel-testing for el6. Please test. The current stable one has some el6 issues.
21:07:18 <tdawson> I've ran my "does it install" tests, I'm still trying to get things organized enough for an email.
21:07:49 <tdawson> I guess I could just give the list of "These don't install" ... I guess that's better than waiting a week for me to get it pretty.
21:09:20 <tdawson> Most things fit into two large groups, for two packages that were updated and things need a rebuild, and then just a handful of other broken things.
21:10:00 <tdawson> Other than that, I don't think I have anything else for EPEL7
21:10:27 <tdawson> #topic EPEL-8
21:10:36 <tdawson> Anything for EPEL8 ?
21:10:52 <pgreco> RHEL 8.2 (for real this time)
21:10:57 * smooge puts up his Somebody Else's Problem Field
21:11:08 <tdawson> *laughs*
21:11:23 <tdawson> #info RHEL 8.2 was released
21:11:43 <tdawson> #info Time to look for more broken things.
21:12:01 <smooge> #info There Is A Python3.8 default module. There Is A Python3.6 default module. MUCH FUN
21:12:10 <nirik> twice as much default python modules as rhel 8.1!
21:12:13 <tdawson> Yep
21:12:21 <tdawson> *laughs*
21:12:46 <tdawson> I believe we've stopped the bleeding, but we're still working on the "correct" solution.
21:12:55 <tdawson> .epel 103
21:12:59 <zodbot> tdawson: Issue #103: python38-rpm-macros brought into EPEL8.2 buildroot - epel - Pagure.io - https://pagure.io/epel/issue/103
21:13:48 <tdawson> You can build packages that use python, again.
21:14:00 * smooge looks forward to a fibonacci growth in python modules
21:14:01 <bstinson> i know we haven't covered much in the way of CentOS Stream interactions with EPEL...but the packages that are going out right now could be very helpful on an individual level if folks want to start looking at previews
21:14:37 <tdawson> bstinson: Are these packages that will be in RHEL 8.3 ?
21:14:59 <bstinson> intended for 8.3, yes
21:15:23 <tdawson> Nice
21:15:30 <smooge> so the idea of using epel-playground to build using stream...
21:16:01 <tdawson> Ya ... do you think that would be possible/probable?
21:16:19 <nirik> well, I am not sure...
21:17:11 <smooge> I am not either.. I am throwing it out from behind my SEP field
21:17:38 <bstinson> i think we should start that conversation down the road, but shortly. i know there's a lot of concern around the effort of doing something like that
21:17:40 <nirik> I think it's possible, I am not sure it's desireable... but it could be
21:18:13 <tdawson> What could we, or the packagers, do, to make it desireable?
21:18:30 <pgreco> nirik: how could we make koji not complain about noarch signatures?
21:19:00 <tdawson> I saw that you were thinking of having all EPEL8 builds build on both epel8 and epel8-playground, automatically.
21:19:03 <nirik> well, it means people who want to use playground for their experemental/whatever would have to require any consumers to also use stream
21:19:32 <nirik> tdawson: that is the way it is supposed to work now... but people didn't understand and it's likely not now
21:20:21 <nirik> so using stream would help some use cases, but make others harder... but I guess I am not sure it's used much as it is anyhow.
21:21:09 <nirik> pgreco: not sure how it would work to enable...
21:21:33 <nirik> actually we could just make it another external repo and then since they are NVR "newer" it would just work..
21:21:59 <pgreco> and as we've mentioned before, that means no playground for s390
21:22:25 <nirik> true. yep.
21:22:39 <pgreco> nirik: it would work for newer packages yet, but my doubt is on packages not yet upgraded
21:22:48 <pgreco> that have same NVR, but different hash
21:24:06 <pgreco> I need to step out for a bit, brb
21:24:17 <bstinson> so this is a long running issue. i think we should keep it as one of the top potential blockers
21:24:51 <bstinson> but i also think we should have a 'do we want to do this? how should we consume Stream assuming we've worked out all of our problems?' type of conversation
21:25:06 <nirik> does stream repos have only the new stream packages? or those + all the last minor ?
21:25:28 <nirik> bstinson: you mean actually think and design something?
21:25:30 <nirik> :)
21:25:40 <bstinson> nirik: it's a full repo. so there are packages going back to 8.0
21:26:08 <nirik> ah then I am not sure what would happen there. ;(
21:28:00 <bstinson> it's been a while since i dug in closely, i need a refresher on that issue
21:28:56 <tdawson> nirik: bstinson: pgreco: smooge: I like the idea of having a conversation, both for design as well as "how would we consume this if it works" ... what would be the best place to discuss it, besides here.  An issue?  An email? IRC?
21:29:01 <nirik> say we have a external rhel8 repo with foo-1.1-1.el8 in it. It has foo-bar-1.1-1.el8 as a noarch package
21:29:44 <tdawson> I'm not saying we can't continue discussing it here, I'm just wondering where to put stuff we talked about.
21:29:53 <nirik> we also have a centos-stream external repo with foo-1.1-1.el8 in it. It's checksums are different from the other repo. koji will kick one of them out, but I don't think it's determiniate which one
21:30:15 <pgreco> tdawson: I prefer an issue
21:30:41 <nirik> I am not sure I like issues for discussion. To me issues are more 'lets do A B C'...
21:31:09 <nirik> perhaps we could start on the list and go from there to an issue once we have something ?
21:31:19 <tdawson> I'm fine with that.
21:31:23 <pgreco> I said issue because it is easier to read everything in one place, :)
21:31:24 <nirik> or a special meeting? dunno
21:31:53 <bstinson> i can put a proposal together
21:32:12 <bstinson> proposal, then the list, then an epel meeting for synchronous discussion
21:32:16 <bstinson> later rinse repeat
21:32:20 <bstinson> *lather
21:33:15 <tdawson> Sounds good
21:33:34 <nirik> I think we should adjust playground in any case, but haven't had time to propose anything
21:34:12 <tdawson> I agree
21:35:19 <tdawson> I still really like the name.  It seems fitting, and you can make lots of images out of it.
21:35:33 <tdawson> Like, we can have a stream running through our playground.
21:36:38 <nirik> yeah, I'd love to see it get more use...
21:36:49 <smooge> me too
21:38:26 <tdawson> I'd love to see it somehow be something that we could use to jump to the next release, so things like my KDE update don't strand people for several weeks.
21:39:04 <tdawson> But, that's just my dream.  I'm sure others have their own ideas/dreams of what they want it to be.
21:39:34 <tdawson> So ... we have bstinson write up the first proposal?  Or nirik did you want to do it?
21:39:52 <nirik> using it with stream would be a way to handle both rhel and centos users I would think... well, ones that are willing to use stream.
21:40:18 <bstinson> i can coordinate, but i'll probably try to get some input before we publish a draft
21:40:22 <nirik> I'd love to see bstinson's proposal. My ideas were mostly around inheriting builds from rhel instead of trying to do duplicate builds there.
21:43:25 <tdawson> #action bstinson will make a proposal for epel8-playground / CentOS Stream, getting input from various parties.
21:44:32 <tdawson> bstinson: Does that sound ok?
21:44:49 <bstinson> wfm, i'll get to it
21:45:06 <tdawson> bstinson: Thank you
21:45:19 <tdawson> Anything else for EPEL8?
21:47:13 <tdawson> bstinson: Hopefully this isn't putting you on the spot, but I want to make sure it's clear.  We won't see updates in the CentOS 8 Devel repo until CentOS 8.2 comes out.  Correct?
21:47:56 <tdawson> So if an EPEL8 package needs one of those packages in -Devel, they will need to wait until CentOS 8.2 comes out to build/rebuild.
21:48:23 <bstinson> that's likely, one thing that we have to do as part of this is true-up with anything that might have moved into or out of one of the 'release' repos
21:48:57 <tdawson> Yep.  I heard there was at least one package that made it into CRB.
21:50:25 <tdawson> I haven't heard any complaints yet, I just wanted to make sure I tell people the right thing when there are.
21:51:12 <bstinson> yeah "Wait for CentOS Linux 8.2.2004" is a good answer
21:51:30 <tdawson> Sounds good.
21:51:46 <tdawson> Looks like the time is getting close, better move to the last topic
21:51:50 <tdawson> #topic General Issues / Open Floor
21:53:03 <tdawson> Anything else people want to bring up?
21:53:56 <nirik> thanks to tdawson for running things and driving fixes. ;)
21:54:12 <carlwgeorge> +1
21:55:10 <tdawson> You are very welcome
21:55:33 <tdawson> Thanks to everyone for coming this week.
21:55:49 <pgreco> thanks, "see" you next week!
21:55:52 <tdawson> Happy May Day
21:56:22 <tdawson> Yep, talk with you all next week.
21:56:26 <tdawson> #endmeeting